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Idiomatic? Since when did that become the standard? Ninety-five percent of all music ever performed by a drum and bugle corps was not composed for drum and bugle corps. Even Sousa wrote woodwinds into his marches. One of the foundational, defining ideas of drum corps is that it adapts music to its own, unique setting. The examples are endless, and they are the whole point of the enterprise. Imagine a world in which SCV had never put Simple Gifts into an 80-horn company front. It's a world I prefer not to imagine. Imagine if Dennis DeLucia had never adapted Black Market Juggler for his drum line. Imagine if Wayne Downey had heard Chicago play "Free," and decided, nah. Imagine if the Madison Scouts had not adapted Concerto For Guitar and Jazz Orchestra for brass and percussion. Imagine if the Garfield Cadets had not taken Rocky Point Holiday, a piece written for a wind ensemble, and turned it into a pivot point for the entire drum and bugle corps activity.These are musical/visual moments that form the very DNA of drum and bugle corps. They are the crown jewels, the exemplars of the craft. And our judges are wringing their hands over idiom? This concept is not unique to drum corps. It is universal to art. The origins of jazz are in spiritual song. Literary romanticism owes much to knowledge about human psychology. Elements of modern art can be traced to earlier periods. Today's pop-music superstars are DJs who can masterfully mix samples of just about any music you can think of. The Manhattan Transfer adapts all forms of music to 4-part harmony. The world of art is a huge mashup. But note: the blending of ingredients is not done in one universal pot. Hip-hop is still hip-hop; just because there's a sample of Gladys Knight looping around in there doesn't mean the Pips are up there on stage with the DJ. Just because jazz is an outgrowth of gospel music doesn't mean Count Basie put a church choir on stage with his band. And just because the 27th Lancers played "Danny Boy" doesn't mean they dragged a drunken tenor out onto the field to sing into a microphone. Without boundaries to define the form, it all becomes undifferentiated sound. Any artist knows as much. Ansel Adams' photographs were defined as much by what he left out as what he let in. Every schoolkid knows that an essay needs a topic sentence to provide focus and clarity to the composition. All art has boundaries. The NY Philharmonic may play a program of show tunes, but it's still a philharmonic orchestra with all the instrumentation that implies -- and none of the instrumentation that it doesn't. And that's why people will buy tickets to the phil: to see an orchestra play show tunes. God help Garth Brooks if he ever brings Zamfir on stage with him. If we're going to start worrying whether the instrumentation in DCI is true enough to the composer's original vision, then Blue Knights might as well drop their horns and learn to pick if they're ever going to play Pat Metheny again. Troopers need to start taking vocal lessons, because "Battle Hymn of the Republic" is a spiritual. Phantom better learn to march violins because Tchaikovsky. Idiom? Seriously? The transfer of idiom from one form to another is the whole point. If we eliminate the distinctions between musical settings, then we lose variety in music. If a restaurant dumps all the ingredients into the same pot, every item on the menu is the same. If drum corps is everything, then it is nothing.

It's also one smallish percentage on the dynamics spectrum; I personally LOVE to hear ensembles exploit ALL dynamics, and not just one

OK, now you're being semantical. Drum Corps = marching band; every marching band is NOT drum corps. I believe Mike is making an argument similar to saying Lady Gaga and the Foo Fighters both play pop music, but they are not exactly the same. The Ohio State University Marching Band now has almost the exact same instrumentation as drum corps (minus the front ensemble), yet they are not (anywhere near) a drum corps. Same idiom, different specifics

Sleepy, Dopey, Grumpy, and Doc are too tall to be Cossetti! Not sure about Stupid, Horny, and Lazy - they were short even for Dwarves...

probably one of the best posts I've ever seen on here

Sitting in the stands at one OMEA event last fall, I heard one h.s. band director trying to persuade another to join the MidStates Band Association. The scoring system was so much more logical, he argued. But would her band have to use electronics to do well, she wondered? Because she didn't care for electronics. I didn't catch much more of their conversation than that. In any case, since his band competed in both circuits, it's not clear how much difference any "poaching" by USBands would make. The number of bands appearing at OMEA's so-called State Finals was about the same (120) in 2012 as it was in 1991, though the average number of students in each band has decreased.

I appreciate those who fondly remember the environment 'back in the day' and are comfortable enough to bring it up in contrast. These observations are not made by ENEMY ATTACKERS. Far from it! These are expressions of a passion that has affected us deeply and has endured for a long, long time. Today's corps and audiences CAN reach these levels again, and they MUST! I remember some of those big events being like NFL playoff games for everyone present. Believe me when I say, in Allentown, spectators were actually arrested by police from the stands. Truth be told, I had an official from Boston Crusaders taken away by paddy wagon. I kid you not. It was that intense! Surely, I do not condone anyone being arrested! But, can we at least tip-toe closer to that edge? Without ever reaching it again, certainly. These things need to be juiced-up (in a good way) to get a little more 'buzz' back into the building. For goodness sake, we're bringing people into a football stadium!

Oddly, the one-day attendance at the Open Class show in Avon Lake, OH, just three days earlier, where all but two of the same corps appeared, was 3,200. Looks like they should move O.C. championships to Avon Lake.

Here's what I had just said in (and now deleted from) the other thread where you had mentioned this: I am inclined to be suspicious of Music in Motion, but corps should be looking for alternate revenue streams to support their primary mission, and they are probably best doing so through activities where they can leverage their expertise, so running a marching band circuit (as YEA already does anyway) seems entirely reasonable to me, and not necessarily likely to lead to changes in the central purpose of the corps. Knowing nothing of the USBands system, I was struck by the comment in those MiM announcements that the scores are 60% music to 40% visual. Many people on these forums complain that DCI gives too much emphasis to the visual. Would the G7 corps prefer DCI to use the USBands music-emphasized system? Is it the non-G7 corps who have prevented that?

Well, only if someone dies. Hmm. At the end of SCV's 2004 show, the Sultan doesn't make it out of Scheherazade's tunnel, where she takes control of his sword--so it seems we were supposed to think he died. At least a little death. (Alfred HItchcock: "There are no symbols in North by Northwest. Oh, yes! One. The last shot ...")

Greensboro, North Carolina FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE March 5, 2014 The Carolina Gold Drum and Bugle Corps is pleased to announce our 2014 competitive field show entitled “The Darkest Hour”. Thematically, Carolina Gold will take you on a journey where dark thoughts prevail and where uncertainty lives. At the darkest time of night when fear thrives, and evil lurks; in 2014 Carolina Gold will bring you to “The Darkest Hour”. Musical selections for “The Darkest Hour” include: “Moonlight Sonata” – Beethoven “Ballet Suit No. 4” – Shostakovich “Night On Bald Mountain” – Mussorgsky “Danse Macabre” Camille Saint-Saens “Lacrimosa” – Mozart “Sleepy Hollow” - Elfman Carolina Gold is guided by Executive Director, Larry Harper Jr. and Corps Director, Jordan Webb. Brass Arrangement is by Rob Stein, Percussion Arrangement by Justin Mabry, Drill Design by Steve Rinda, Visual Design by Drew Zeller and 2008 WGI Hall of Fame member Jay Webb serves as the 2014 Design Consultant. The 2014 Carolina Gold is served in instructional capacities by its Brass Caption Head Dossie Ransom, III, Percussion Caption Head Tracy Wiggins, Color Caption Head Drew Zellmer and Visual Caption Head Jordan Webb. Carolina Gold Drum and Bugle Corps is a non-profit, all-age, competitive marching arts organization comprised of members enriching the state of North Carolina and the entire Southeast, through music and the marching arts. Established in the fall of 2000 and currently based in Greensboro, NC, Carolina Gold strives to provide its performing members with a stimulating and rewarding instructional, competitive, educational, and social experience. In 2012, Carolina Gold expanded its program offerings by adding a competitive Winter Guard unit which performs under the name of “Carolina Gold Independent Winterguard”. Additionally in In 2012, Carolina Gold Drum & Bugle Corps won the DCA Class A World Championship (65 or fewer performing members). In 2013, the Drum Corps moved to DCA Open Class competition (greater than 65 performing members) and in 2014, Carolina Gold Drum & Bugle Gold expects to field it’s largest drum corps since 2005. For more information, please visit us at our Facebook page or online at www.carolinagold.org.

For the most part, the crowd reactions in some of those early years were much more intense. There were spontaneous standing Os more frequently, across more corps, including the smaller, earlier corps. I would just like to get MORE of that fervor back. It certainly makes it all more fun for audience and performer, in my mind. No one wants to scrap all what is different about today's shows, just package those shows a little differently.

That's true, as well: about rose-colored glasses. I've heard recordings of DCI Finals with the crowd going nuts chanting "EAST EAST EAST," and I certainly wasn't personally around BITD to witness that stuff so maybe I am over-glorifying what I thought was a much bigger reaction.

I'd like you to leave DCI. Bye-bye, good riddance, don't let the door hit you on the way...

I feel guilty - I haven't called him in a couple of months - glad someone wrote this- get me off my ###.

all things that didnt support the activity BITD........the youth activities of the past, are all but gone as well as many things that supported drum corps BUJT you did give fine examples WHY there are less in drum corps and support and how kids do have way more choices today

Especially when you go waaaay back, some of the memories of crowd reactions are filtered through rose-colored glasses. Not 100%, of course, but they do tend to tint the memory. if you look at some of the Haas videos, the reality of crowd reactions, even at a show like the 1971 World Open, which some have called one of the great shows of all time, at an iconic stadium, do not show the crowd "throwing babies", even for corps like the local favorite 27th Lancers, Blue Rock, Garfield, the Troopers, Anaheim, SCV, etc... Yes, there is applause, and at the end of shows you see the crowd stand and give the corps a standing ovation, but it is no more frenetic than shows of today, from my viewing.

loud is a chemical reaction in the brain...less of an emotional one

Im just going to leave this here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYkS9IxhUZs&feature=youtu.be

Yup. Agree. But really, that is pretty much the model "forever', outside of a the VERY few long-term corps. Corps used to spring up in one town, last for a few years while the director and support staff remained interested, and then fold. Back in the 50's and 60's, there would be a new corps created a town over, or even in the same town, with its own set of interested adults.

Are some of you suggesting you think only a couple corps will use trombones this year? Did only a couple corps use amps the first year they were legal? Synths ? Bb horns? Yeah, there was a whole one exception to that one. So I expect that only a couple bands WON'T use the shiny new toy this year.

Fear...

A majority? No. Many bands still using them? Yes. But no, not a majority, at least not in the areas of the country where I have judged and taught.

I judge in TOB and I see fewer and fewer trombones every year

dude, for the love of God, stop with the NAMBLA crap before you have the police scanning this place and get your ### busted.

he's too tall to be Cosetti

A typical monied elitist response.

I thought it might be one of the Adair bros., but I don't think either was Army. On another note, there was very talented sop from Vasella from my time, but never knew his name. Vasella was never given that much press, but they were right up there with the good guys.

I agree with this. I highly doubt corps will come out of the gate looking like Ohio State Marching Band with sousaphones and trombones waving. There will probably be features and mic'd solos and stuff where they will get worked in. Maybe a quick gliss effect here and there. Maybe a couple nice solos. Proponents will say "see- that sounded great, no big deal, not really a huge change". Which leads to my stance of why the need to have band instruments at all, then. If they are just most likely to be used for "color", and there is already an instrument (save for the gliss effects) that already is a really close shade of that color- baritone- why the need to push this stuff? Just so a designer can make a tiny tweak in tone and timbre, huge changes that basically redefine what a drum & bugle corps is are instituted. It is very bizarre to me- I've never seen an activity implode on itself for the sake of things that most in the activity don't want and that don't really have much impact on the actual product. Just tossing out everything that makes it unique and special in the music ensemble world so someone can have access to a "tonal color". Bollocks I say! It has been said in this thread that someone took an informal poll of kids and none of them seemed to care. Funny, because everyone I know- kids to old timers- connected to DCI don't like the changes and absolutely don't want to simply be summer BOA. Wander up to any hornline or drumline warming up in the lot this summer and say "hey, what's the name of your marching band" and see how fast you get corrected "this is a drum corps"...

First NAMBLA, and now Caligula. Stu, you are so lost in your own sauce, man. Come up for air.

This is true, but many of these same directors were getting huge crowd response designing innovative, outside-the-box shows BITD. Cadets in the early/mid-80's seem like old hat standards now, but I suspect that stuff was quite a departure from the BD dynasty before. Even BD stylistically was a bit of a departure in the mid/late 70's with their approach to design. The drum corps crowd is a bizarro bunch (and I include myself in that, and I mean that endearingly). If a corps is too much of a retread there is a lot of complaints, and fans demand innovation. When a show is too innovative, fans complain that it's too out there and want to see stuff they're familiar with. We can likely all agree we want to see GREAT drum corps, and we know it when we see it, can give examples of shows that are seemingly universally loved, etc. But putting that all down in an explanation would be difficult, and obviously would never please all people all the time.

To be super blunt, in 2010 Madison's biggest effect was crowd appeal. They seemingly designed a minimalist show that would hit just enough of the criteria to be Finals when performed competently, but there wasn't much more to their show than "loud old school drum corps." Nothing wrong with that; they were wise to continually exploit their biggest asset (crowd appeal).

Is that all you have? You said DCI changes were made "in reaction to the decline in field corps", rather than the reverse chronology. Show me how. When I think of most DCI changes - mallets, the pit, subjective judging, more valves, any-key brass, the colorguard caption, A&E, electronic instruments, and now any brass - not only is there very little consideration given to "the decline in field corps", but change proponents argue that I am wrong about what little connection I see. Worse yet, some even contend that there is no decline. I would think it is clear that drum corps has less marchers, less spectators, less corps and less shows than when DCI started. Still, we are told that we really have more marchers because there are more marching bands. Or that pre-Internet-era attendance figures should be treated as fiction. Or who cares how many corps and shows were lost, as long as DCI world class numbers are steady. I realize it is much like when a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it. But when the forest is gone, then what?

I really enjoy how the Hopkins lead Cadets program has retained literally the same uniforms, marching style, unique and at times uplifting show concepts, along with starting a DCA Open Class Corps, Winter Percussion, and providing free online courses and resources for educators, options for at risk low-income youth, and more, all while destroying the drum corps activity. If you want a corps to go FULL HOPKINS then I assume you want corps to provide the same support and educational opportunities for our youth while retaining a unique signature style. I look forward to seeing a DCI corps starting a DCA competitive corps, providing free webinars for staff and member education, and handle the practical change of instrumentation and amplification. I'd also expect all of the corps to retain unique musical identities like a tag at the end of some of the shows. Not to say corps today aren't providing these opportunities; people just forget and vilify a person because they are making stylistic and practical technological and business decisions.

In the same way that if people really liked old school drum corps there would be a circuit full of g-bugles?

Those kids are so cute! Good luck!

I like that they used the words "drum instructor" not battery tech tenor tech etc.

I can say that this is a very dedicated group of kids. Their staff and administration are great people with huge passion for the marching activity!

A very very good show, oozing with effect, a fantastic drumline, and a great guard. Great musical adaption of the Broadway show. My one sore spot with this show is that it starts the 'dirty feet, dirty brass' era of SCV...well, maybe 1990 did, but 1991 felt more like it. Maybe that's just me...