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BD 14...Felini. The average fan may know the name, but not the details...but they were so #### good you didn't care

Please keep Jerry Noonan, former soprano soloist of Northstar Drum & Bugle Corps in your thoughts. Jerry is in a serious battle with cancer and could use your prayers. Jerry is recognized as one of the top soloists of all time, and was a brass instructor with Northstar and the Boston Crusaders, among others, and is well respected throughout the drum corps community. One of the good guys.

Take one for the team. Take one for the team.

I have made a lot of money doing drug trials. It hasn’t aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaffected me one bit.

I did all of the above and I'm so grateful for advanced medicine. It saved my life and I'm stronger than ever.

When limited to the context of answering an unanswerable question, I think a little lifting of spirits is something we all could use. I did not realize that was a rhetorical question. Those are good insights. Maybe there should be an investigation, then, to explore those... and to learn what we can do better going forward.

"Twindemic"? What this article fails to mention is "twin-mitigation". Since we are already practicing social distancing/hygiene, so many people are self-isolating, and so many schools/businesses/gatherings are shut down, flu will have a tougher time spreading this season. Regardless, follow the prevailing advice regarding flu shots. And do not panic.

OK, Tennessee.

the year i trialed to do GE in TOB, I sat behind Larry Hershman as he sat there and listened to staff breathlessly go on for 3+ minutes explaining their show, with details so minute a judge would have to see the group 10 times to get it all. When they were done, Larry smiled and said " you realize you'll get first reads a lot the next few weeks and you'll have to go through that entire exercise again right? because if you needed all of that time to explain to me, how many other first time viewers will be as bewildered as I was, and they don't get to talk to you in critique. What that says to me is you programmed far too deep for the casual or occasional observer, and probably spend more time focusing on this than you do getting good performance".

This was the big year for me -- when I went from a fan to an obsessive who HAD to march drum corps somehow (summer before senior year of high school). I attended that BOA Summer Camp (then at Illinois State in Normal, IL) for the second year in a row, doing the marching band track (I was a clarinet player). By the way, 2002 was much better-- we learned, cleaned and performed about 3 minutes of show in 5 days. In 2003, it was run by Richard Saucedo (Cavies composer and Mt Carmel HS director at the time), and it was basically just a "be a Cavalier for a day" camp - we just learned some drill that went around the Cavies opener (which had a lot less music). But, we did learn a lot about creating an ensemble sound the early-2000s Cavaliers way, which involved playing concert F at mf a lot. (Sounds like a diss but really isn't). Frustratingly, I took back all the techniques I had learned to my band program, but the director wasn't interested in the slightest. The visual guy at my HS also marched in the Cavies hornline that year, and it was the year after their 3-peat, so like every early 2000s bando, I idolized them. Funny enough, I ended up marching Cadets. The 2003 Normal, IL show is infamous because a huge storm with a tornado warning blew through during Capital Regiment's show, and everyone had to pack into the field house. Coincidentally, I ended up marching CapReg for the next two seasons! The corps did a standstill, and I stood right next to the drum majors at the focal point of the horn arc - and that night I knew I had to be part of That Sound. So, the shows.... BD set their show style for the next few years. I forgot to finish my comments before I posted this the first time. Maybe that means something - I find this a very generic and boring show. 2004 was much better. Cavaliers "Spin Cycle." The odd man out in their 2000-2006 run, it was a visual masterpiece, but the music was whatever. I remember my 17 yr old bando self reading the Cavaliers.org forums, where old people were saying "They are playing too soft!! They just need to play louder and they'll beat BD!" LoL. Ohhhh The Cadets. On the "designer commentary track" of the DVDs, you hear Hop at his ever-defensive, self-righteous best, saying "People say we're out of ideas, but wait until next year." Sitting on a park bench...... The design was basically turning a GREAT corps into a cover band. I hate the choppy Malaguena arrangement. Vets said they had to work like dogs to make it as clean as possible, because the show was so lacking in GE. Apparently they had zero free days. This is the best version of their uniforms - come at me, bro! Phantom made a huge comeback from 2002, going back to all white and finishing 3rd 4th with a well-loved show. Everyone loved Pachelbel's Canon ("that great audience lollipop," to quote Stravinsky on his own Firebird Suite), but my fave part is the Bartok ostinato from Mikrokosmos. Slaps!!! SCV's pathways was the last (for a while at least) of their understated, cerebral style. Don't remember much about it, but I recall Derek Gipson (our brass caption head in '05) saying that his girlfriend didn't care or know anything about drum corps before coming to finals week, but by the end said "Man, SCV got robbed! That show was way better than PR!!!" Haha. Magic of Orlando had their last good year competitively, with Jeff Sacktig drill, Jay Bocook arrangements, and Gino Cipriani as brass caption head. In exchange for this world class staff, they didn't buy food for their members -- alums I marched with later said that on one occasion, during sub-sectionals, instead of rehearsing, they walked to a nearby Dairy Queen and their tech bought them food. Lots of popcorn, apparently. ####### YIKES. Capital Regiment was a World Class Div I corps for the first time, but actually placed 2 slots down from 2002 (19 vs 17 overall as a Div II). A generic New World Symphony arrangement, old G bugles, etc. Funny enough, they got all that Magic staff and design team for 2004 and... also ended up bankrupting themselves eventually.

I'm going to go back and read the DCI announcement for Varsity sound-sport and reevaluate my position. I currently and previously held or hold the opinion that its a good thing. Still don't see the problem.

Someone mentioned drinking or day drinking? Enjoy some classic Foster Brooks with Dean.

The hell you say! 🍺 🍹 🥃 🍷

What a relief! I will sleep soundly now, knowing that Varsity only wants to help DCI grow... or eliminate it. Whichever.

Some days the only thing missing on here is a dance routine to go along with the gang ups - like the prologue to West Side Story.

Nice to see a band get a hit (their first in nearly a decade) in their 20th year together: Although there are other songs by the Strokes that might adapt more readily to drum corps. How about a mash-up of a bunch of their songs? Lots of brief excerpts? You could call the show the "Short Strokes". Or maybe the "Little Strokes". Or perhaps the "Mini Strokes"?

Program Coordinator and Body Guard

Someone touched briefly on this elsewhere, but I'm more interested in the why (large turnover, etc)? If this has already been addressed, I apologize. 1975 - 7th 1976 - 28th 1977 - 11th 1978 - 12th 1979 - 32nd Thanks!

Per Marc Sylvester on one of the Cadets webinars from earlier this year, it was this year, and they did it...mostly because they could. Though the story at the time was that Zingali instituted it because ballet starts with the right foot. Sacktig has a good story on the same webinar about how Delucia teed him up to talk about this on one of the broadcasts and he gave that answer, and then during the show Delucia told him that he got it wrong and it was the ballet thing, to which Sacktig retorted something along the lines of "no, that's just what we told everyone."

And Colin McNutt, who left Glassmen along with the exodus of Sal Salas and Jamey Thompson for Madison.

Apologies if someone else already mentioned this, but a lawsuit was filed just a month ago against Varsity alleging that the company is running a monopoly, although I don't have a subscription and can't see much past the headline.

Jeff Webb did say this about cheerleaders during that trial: "They don't cheer and they don't lead." And he also said that competitive cheerleading is no more a sport than chess is. - - - - - - - - - - - Here's an example of what the defendant's lawyers brought to the attention of the judge in the case: following testimony in which Webb said that cheerleading was not a sport, he published this on Varsity's website (it's no longer there, but it was saved on the Internet Archive): "My own belief, as well as that of Varsity, is that when using the general definition of sport – 'an athletic activity with competition' -- all forms of cheerleading are either sports or have sports components." Run away! Run away! I'm finding this website ("Spirit Company") to be useful in locating items like that. - - - - - - - - - I want to be as fair as possible to Webb, so I will say that this testimony from the trial sounds like what many decent people say about drum corps: "Well, cheerleading is something I have had a passion for since I was very young man. And you know, I've been able been fortunate enough over the past 30, 35 years to take sort of a concept that I created and to be able to transform this athletic activity into something that millions of kids can participate in and I honestly believe that as cheerleading exists today which is what we originally envisioned when we started UCA, we began that transforming process, we envisioned that the traditional role of cheerleading with leadership, with spirit race, combined with what we do on the field, entertainment and an element of competition, we believe that the result speaks for itself. Most people tell you that cheerleading has grown three to four times over the past 25 years and it involves millions and millions of kids, and we know from the feedback we get the impact it's had on so many lives and it's because of the total experience, not just one. So that's why it's important." Then again, it also sounds like what some indecent people have said about drum corps.

Well, the last numbered item appears to be 43, and I still haven't found Webb's deposition. So now I'm wondering if I just missed Webb talking about this in his trial testimony. I see the judge, in the portion of the decision that garfield initially brought to our attention, specifies that it was in Webb's "testimony at trial" that he made the statement we've been attempting to parse second-hand. That's parts 28-29 of the files, for anyone with sharper eyes than mine. Here are two legal blog posts about the case that might help with this search: Title IX Blog: Quinnipiac Volleyball Players Win Title IX Decision Connecticut Sports Law: Competitive Cheering a Varsity Sport? I see that they include links to news stories that might have details not uploaded in those files I checked. (Some helpful analysis of the case here at the Sports Law Canary blog.) Here's a media article about Webb's testimony that doesn't mention what the judge and defense counsel took from it. Here's another article on the subject that notes that Wisconsin's Supreme Court had previously ruled that cheerleading is a sport. That article also says: "Unfortunately, an appropriate governing body has yet to be created for competitive cheer at the high school level. Although athletes regularly compete at local, regional, and national competitions, the organization that currently hosts most of the competitions is Varsity Brands, Incorporated. One of the problems is that Varsity Brands, Incorporated currently hosts more than 66 national championship competitions each year (Penn and Teller, 2010). They are also the organization that profits from the sport of cheer through the sale of uniforms, practice clothes, competition entrance fees, and competition gate fees (300 million annually). In order to bring the sport of competitive cheer within line with other traditional sports, there would need to be one annual state competition (per state) and one national competition. Whether this can be done by reorganizing the current Varsity competition schedule or through existing state high school athletic organizations is yet to be determined. Reducing 66 national competitions to one national competition and reducing state competitions to one per state might have a financial impact on this company."

You and the devil, always advocating...

I believe this is the year they started stepping off with the right foot because of the mixed meter. It was a way to break old habits and trick the brain. Someone feel free to correct me if I'm completely wrong, though.

I have bolded the passage that is central to our discussion, but unfortunately, the judge is not clear. Does anyone have a link to Webb's actual testimony about this?* Here's why it's not clear: there are two ways to read that line. Let's put the relevant paragraph from which you you cite here in its entirety, with that particular sentence underlined: "As was true with the UCA’s competitive events, Webb did not believe that his NCA competitions would eventually establish a sport that would, some day, be recognized by athletics organizations such as the NCAA. Instead, he envisioned NCA competitions as a further promotion of his cheerleading supply business. Indeed, testimony at trial revealed that the NCA’s scoring system was intertwined with the promotion of Varsity Brands. During the 'spirit' portion of the competition, cheerleading teams are awarded points for using props, such as pom poms, sold by Varsity Brands; the more props a team uses, the more points that team receives. Webb testified that he was not averse to competitive cheerleading eventually becoming an independent sport. Still, as a sideline cheerleading purist, Webb wants competitive cheer to be distinguished from traditional sideline cheer out of concern that competitive cheer will threaten his competitions – for instance, competitive cheer might annex certain moves and routines from sideline cheer – and lead to confusion about the difference between the two forms of cheerleading. Webb did not think that the rise of competitive cheer would hurt his business, however. On the contrary, he welcomed its emergence, believing that the creation of new competitive cheer teams at high schools, colleges, and universities would increase demand for Varsity Brands’ products and services." Remember that the question that the judge is trying to answer in the part of the decision based on the facts laid out here is this: is cheerleading a sport? To put it briefly: this was a case in which a university got rid of its women's vollyeball team. Members of the team and the coach sued the university claiming discrimination against women's sports. The university said that, on the contrary, it simultaneously launched a new women's cheerleading team, and that cheerleading is a sport. The judge's decision was that cheerleading is not a sport (and thus that the university had violated Title IX), and part of the reason it's not a sport is the way that so much of its governance is in the hands of this private company named Varsity instead of the usual kind of organization that oversees sports. I think it's really important that the underlined sentence immediately follows the judge saying that "the NCA's scoring system was intertwined with the promotion of Varsity Brands." The key sentence that you cite is thus meant to prove that phrase; it's the judge saying: here's how Varsity promotion is intertwined with the scores. But I can see why you interpreted it the other way, and if I were the judge, I would have written it this way instead: "During the 'spirit' portion of the competition, cheerleading teams are awarded points for using props, such as pom poms, sold by Varsity Brands; the more Varsity props a team uses, the more points that team receives." I believe the judge thought readers would assume the word "Varsity" that I have added was implied by the first half of his sentence. - - - - - - - - - - *OK, I just found Webb's testimony, which I will read and then link and discuss in a separate reply. We'll see if I'm right or wrong about what he said.

I ust saw a few days ago schools opening and somewhere in central Fl closing down as fast as they opened..Remember Fl. was the example of what to do, then the rush to open, then they weren't. Oh wait, this thread was about DCI and Varsity ,oops sorry

As were Tito Puente and Clark Terry

One guy I spoke to here in Montreal told me not to take the vaccine because it might have a microchip embedded in it. I didn't know how to reply so I just smiled and walked away and as I got further I started to run.

If it's successful and profitable for all, why the heck not?

Well, it's not DCI, it's SoundSport. And we don't know what the deal says about outcome if it's negative. Remember, they're not buying SS. The association can be undone as easily as it was done, right?

Let me ask you this...would you not do chemotherapy if god forbid you have cancer..any type cancer? As a former and cancer free person I did chemo years ago, Yes..THERE WAS SIDE EFFECTS!!!!!!

Just out a few days ago...33 percent of Americans will not take a Covid-19 vaccine. Yeah. This is why we are # 1 in infections and deaths. https://www.businessinsider.com/poll-third-of-americans-wont-take-a-coronavirus-vaccine-2020-9

Which illustrates a point....sometimes the excessive detail isn't for the judges or the audience so much as it's for the performers. If THEY understand those deep meanings, it influences their performance.

I don't think you are a Jet. There won't be any dancing required.

My arthritic knees don’t allow any dance steps. I’d probably be the shop owner telling everyone to play nice. And Jeff can be Officer Krupke giving everyone grief. 😈

God forbid we have a "twindemic" this fall. This senerio could shut down the WGI winter season & disrupt the DCI winter season. Get your flu shot early! https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/best-time-flu-shot-covid-19-pandemic-094500760.html ------------------------- The dual threat of influenza and COVID-19 has public health experts warning of a “twindemic” effect that could sicken the population and overwhelm hospitals. ------------------------- The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recommends getting a flu shot in September or October. While flu season can last well into late spring, it typically ramps up in the fall and peaks between December and February.

Again, false. Their owner said that teams score better for using more props, not exclusively Varsity props. At the time of the article, there were more than 50 companies whose props were all allowed at Varsity events. However, those companies were not allowed to sell those props at Varsity events where Varsity was allowed to sell its own gear. This claim is one of those where an important word (in this case) is inserted, is never challenged, and is allowed to grow into its own life as a fake truism. If this claim were the fact, the Class Action filed would make that claim. Instead, it claims that teams were allowed to use any makers props, were awarded points for using more props, and Varsity sells props.

The DCI rulebook forbids any drum corps from participating in any performance or competition with any other member corps except at DCI sanctioned events.

Again, study the Varsity business model and not the headlines. Their business M.O. is to recognize good management teams and help them become great while sharing in the resulting profit increases. Your characterization of their business practice is flat-out wrong; apparently you view "improve" and "substitute" as synonymous. Again, look at the business of Just Briefs for your proof; your description of Varsity doesn't jibe with that specific case, and not with any case I can find of Varsity purchasing another company.

And? That's bad how? Only in The Globetrotters (and maybe drum corps) is fake competition created for the sake of entertainment. In the business world, competitors are squashed in real-life death matches for survival.

Evidence, please, because this is patently false. They were scored higher for using props. They were not scored higher for using Varsity props - that part is made up. Read the claim. If those making the claim are bringing the worst with which to win, even THEY DON'T SAY THAT IN THEIR CLAIM, so who are you going to believe? I showed research support. Still waiting for the proof of the claim that Varsity props scored higher.

That was more of a passing of the torch, like being handed down to a family member.

Not digging, Stating facts and my impressions of them. I never suggested that cheerleading groups set their own rules. What I'm saying is that drum corps sets its own rules, too. DCI member corps make their own rules for those very member corps to compete under. Varsity sets the rules for cheer and thousands of cheerleaders rush to compete for those titles each year. What's the difference that's meaningful and not just definitional? Would Varsity's performance rules change dramatically if their competitors had input on the rules? Would DCI's performance rules change if the MARCHING MEMBERS had input on DCI's judging rubrics? Anecdotal, I know. Do the band kids you judge each year have input into the judging rubric they're held against each fall weekend? What's the point of this comparison to DCI's methods?

Facts? How about first-hand experience? I have two friends who both work for a company that Varsity recently bought. This is a company that is a current supplier to the activity. Both of these people have told me that their experience with Varsity has been nothing like what you describe. The Varsity people are there, in front of the company, asking how they, Varsity, can help this purchased company improve their financial results, what avenues for sales this company would like to develop, with actual paths for development that Varsity has already developed. Their care for the executives who run their business is top-notch, and their interest in helping the purchased company leverage Varsity's assets to help it realize its growth targets. You see, it's completely to Varsity's benefit to help their portfolio companies grow, or to meld the good ideas they buy into their existing business, or eliminate it as competition. I would encourage the curious to search out the story of the Just Briefs, a business that tried to compete against entrenched Varsity. After several years of unsuccessfully trying to break in, Varsity bought Just Briefs and kept its founder and CEO on to run the company. Eventually, this person departed again to start Just Briefs Apparel to, again, try to compete against Varsity. Question: How much was the owner of Just Briefs paid for her company and for her time running it after it was purchased? (Varsity eventually realized that the founder was unable to improve the division's performance and shut it down in favor of Varsity's own management running a similar business more successfully. It runs today as such while Just Briefs Apparel is still attempting to position itself as a competitor in the space. Varsity's M.O. is to recognize good management and leave them in place to make their businesses more valuable. Do they make a profit? Of course. But they also help make good companies great by offering avenues not previously available in return for a hands-off participation in the resulting growth. Anyone who is serious about private equity understands that the "leverage buyout" days of the Wall Street movie days are long gone, and the tax and business benefits of buying companies is in seeing them be successful, not in eliminating their competition. I'm not guessing. Analyzing companies - even private companies using private equity - is my business. I have facts and I'll put my research of Varsity's "track record" against anyone's.

Plan 9 from Indianapolis

Quoted for context. It is the final portion of your post that deserves to be addressed: - No, these states are not "under investigation". The DOJ is considering an investigation, though, and has asked for information from the governors of these states. - It is not "for unknown reasons", but rather because of government orders requiring nursing homes to admit C-19 patients without adequately protecting their vulnerable populations. - This is a drum corps site. Here, we deal in top 12s, not top 10s. At the time of your post, New York and Michigan were 11th and 12th on your cherry-picked list. Interesting that you chose to cut off at 10. - I m not aware of Arizona, Mississippi, or anyone other than the four states DOJ reached out to, who via government orders have required nursing homes to admit C-19 patients without adequately protecting their vulnerable populations. The fairest, most benevolent motive I can attribute to what was done in NY/PA/NJ/MI would be a fear of running out of hospital beds. I say "fear" because no one actually did run out of beds. New York, in particular, left the Javits Center and a federally-supplied hospital ship virtually empty, when those spaces could have been used to keep infectious people away from vulnerable nursing homes. People wonder why I keep saying "do not panic" - because panic leads to bad decisions. Not what you want when lives are at stake.

Good imagination and understandable dot books?

I don't care how many titles you have...if your audience has to do research to understand your show, you're doing something wrong.

I have noticed that too. She seems to enjoy the 80s/90s shows just a tad more. When she reacted to 88 SCV, thank goodness she wasn't holding her little niece/nephew or cousin, cause that kid would have went thru the wall lol.