Whiskey Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 Really I’m shocked that DCI has allowed itself to get to this level of not being accountable. There are quite a few designers, staff and judges that have jobs in education. Every one of those members should know you are obligated by law (even if it’s a suspicion) to report. I guess it goes to show just how inept education is today and why we at times deserve the criticism we get. I sincerely hope the model of DCI is changed in the coming years. It won’t be easy but it has to happen. We have a corps that is in all likelihood going to win and one of their main designers has rumors swirling about them. Why are we allowing these people to be a part of the operations of a corps if we don’t allow the proper protocols and investigations to happen. If it’s unfounded and unsubstantiated, then great. At least we did the right thing. So disappointed. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigW Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 11 hours ago, jeffmolnar said: Honestly, DCI should have way more power than they currently do. That would mean the member corps ceding some portion of their large amount of autonomy, one of the reasons DCI was created. It... would not be an easy thing to do, to put it lightly. For it to happen it would take some kind of proverbial Sword of Damocles threat/forcing of the issue. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigW Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 8 hours ago, corps8294 said: I suggested in the past that it might be better for Pioneer to go to DCA; but would DCA want them? Yeah, this is going to sound incredibly cruel; but if Pioneer were to fold, I wouldn't miss them in the least. That corps is a caricature and is going absolutely nowhere. This was supposed to be a huge breakout year for Pioneer. It's more like another breakout bust. That organization has way too many issues to continue in World Class. How about too many issues to continue, period. It takes a lot to appall me and after reading the list of issues, if even a third of them are true... I'm appalled. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigW Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 18 hours ago, ouooga said: Does anyone know if any corps do a feedback survey to the members post tour? Not just to address any hazing with an opportunity to be anonymous, but to assess how well the member experience for the summer was in general. DCI as a whole might benefit from something like this. Edit: I conduct surveys and do marketing data analysis for a living. It'll be extremely rudimentary, but if any corps staff see this, I'm happy to facilitate something for any interested corps post season. No charge. Exit surveys/interviews are a great idea and make too much sense. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTNK Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 Pio thread gave me Cap Reg flashbacks. Stick a fork in it 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim K Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 (edited) Pioneer having issues such as poor equipment, financial troubles, people not quite up to snuff should not be a huge surprise, however Pioneer having a good number of some of the issues listed is surprising. I’ve often thought Pioneer has great potential. According to Ancestry.com, 94% of my blood has Celtic roots. I enjoy Pioneer but my Irish heart has never been stirred that much by Pioneer from an Irish point of view. Celtic music is very popular with many young musicians as is Irish dance. Bring on the real Irish. I’ve also thought that a good amount of instruction happens at Pioneer when marching members take charge. This is based on reading between the lines when talking with marching members. This is not good and explains a lot, but hire a few experienced people and after these kids age out, bring them back. The above are management and design issues. Staff members with records, safety issues, abusive treatment, there’s no excuse for that. The Reddit post suggests corps members heard “this happens everywhere” which in some cases was true thirty plus years ago, but this is not the good old days in that regard. I don’t want to see any corps fold, but if what is listed in Reddit is true, and if the unaccompanied minor marching member dropped off at the hospital is from Pioneer, time off is needed and reorganization is a must. Edited July 28, 2018 by Tim K 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icer Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 16 hours ago, jeffmolnar said: You are literally victim blaming here. Stop. Decent humans don’t do that. The victims went about it the way they did because they were terrified that coming forward might sink the corps, which is something none of them wanted. They weren’t thinking about themselves. Think about that before you get all ignorant again. You have no idea what you are saying. Blaming the victim is when people say things like "Well what was she doing in that position", or "Look what she was wearing", or "She must have done something to cause this". Everyone has the right to control exactly when and where they choose to have a physical relationship, no means no, and there is no in between. That's what not blaming the victim means. For any incidents of assault, the victims deserve enequivocal sympathy, full stop But being a victim doesn't give carte Blanche to everything that follows, and one's actions have consequences. If one of them had walked into the offices and beaten the accused to a pulp I suppose some might cheer, but the police would certainly take a different positon. The accusers made a tactical decision and attempted to get YEA to remove the executive director on the basis of an anonymous letter through an intermediary. Had the organization done as they wished it would likely have ceased to exist, because it would have then been the subject of a wrongful termination lawsuit, which it would have lost. Don't take my word for this. Go ask any lawyer what would happen to an organization that fired an employee on the basis of an email with no names. I will grant you that perhaps the accusers believed they were doing what was best for all involved, but what they actually did was to create a whole host of collateral damage in the organization, which was caught in an impossible situation where they could neither move forward or backward. You are entitled to your opinion, but the law restricts people's actions and that seems fairly clear. So let's leave the inflammatory rhetoric aside. It is possible to have 100% sympathy for a blameless victim while still believing there was a much better sequence of actions to obtain justice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 8 minutes ago, Icer said: You have no idea what you are saying. Blaming the victim is when people say things like "Well what was she doing in that position", or "Look what she was wearing", or "She must have done something to cause this". Everyone has the right to control exactly when and where they choose to have a physical relationship, no means no, and there is no in between. That's what not blaming the victim means. For any incidents of assault, the victims deserve enequivocal sympathy, full stop But being a victim doesn't give carte Blanche to everything that follows, and one's actions have consequences. If one of them had walked into the offices and beaten the accused to a pulp I suppose some might cheer, but the police would certainly take a different positon. The accusers made a tactical decision and attempted to get YEA to remove the executive director on the basis of an anonymous letter through an intermediary. Had the organization done as they wished it would likely have ceased to exist, because it would have then been the subject of a wrongful termination lawsuit, which it would have lost. Don't take my word for this. Go ask any lawyer what would happen to an organization that fired an employee on the basis of an email with no names. I will grant you that perhaps the accusers believed they were doing what was best for all involved, but what they actually did was to create a whole host of collateral damage in the organization, which was caught in an impossible situation where they could neither move forward or backward. You are entitled to your opinion, but the law restricts people's actions and that seems fairly clear. So let's leave the inflammatory rhetoric aside. It is possible to have 100% sympathy for a blameless victim while still believing there was a much better sequence of actions to obtain justice. I’ll say this again since you always ignore it: the avenue you prefer was known to be a closed door. They white washed years of financial mismanagement 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyDad Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 28 minutes ago, Icer said: You have no idea what you are saying. Blaming the victim is when people say things like "Well what was she doing in that position", or "Look what she was wearing", or "She must have done something to cause this". Everyone has the right to control exactly when and where they choose to have a physical relationship, no means no, and there is no in between. That's what not blaming the victim means. For any incidents of assault, the victims deserve enequivocal sympathy, full stop But being a victim doesn't give carte Blanche to everything that follows, and one's actions have consequences. If one of them had walked into the offices and beaten the accused to a pulp I suppose some might cheer, but the police would certainly take a different positon. The accusers made a tactical decision and attempted to get YEA to remove the executive director on the basis of an anonymous letter through an intermediary. Had the organization done as they wished it would likely have ceased to exist, because it would have then been the subject of a wrongful termination lawsuit, which it would have lost. Don't take my word for this. Go ask any lawyer what would happen to an organization that fired an employee on the basis of an email with no names. I will grant you that perhaps the accusers believed they were doing what was best for all involved, but what they actually did was to create a whole host of collateral damage in the organization, which was caught in an impossible situation where they could neither move forward or backward. You are entitled to your opinion, but the law restricts people's actions and that seems fairly clear. So let's leave the inflammatory rhetoric aside. It is possible to have 100% sympathy for a blameless victim while still believing there was a much better sequence of actions to obtain justice. You are victim blaming. Apparently everyone sees this. Except you. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 (edited) So the real problem isn't what was going on in the corps. The real problem is how the victims got their stories out and how it might damage the corps. How dare they feel that was the only way to let others including other victims know what was going on. And how DARE they try to protect others..... Blame the victims..... Edited July 28, 2018 by JimF-LowBari 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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