rainshdw08

TOC - Warrensburg MO

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I wonder if the TOC is at their peak of their show design. They all have done a great job to this point. What else can they really clean.

In other words emc2, you mean other corps, currently below these corps in scoring, can move up too if not pass one or two of these corps.

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Wisest post of the season. Trying to quantify art makes no sense. It's like comparing Cleveland Orchestra to Chicago. I have my opinions about who I like better, but I'll bust my butt to hear both of them.

Is there a real debate, hype aside? Chicago may have the best brass, but Cleveland has for six decades had the best orchestra in the US, and on par with Vienna and Berlin. Cleveland plays like a string quartet, which is no surprise as their concertmaster was for years the first violinist of the famed Cleveland Quartet before they disbanded, and he studied with the former concertmaster of the Cleveland under Szell - Josef Gingold - and Szell taught the orchestra to listen and play like a quartet. So the central european tradition is handed down in Cleveland.

And the just hired Lebron to play tam tam, so they'll be fine going forward.

Chicago and New York and LA phil get more hype though, because they're on the radio and TV more, and the media in the bigger cities naturally assume that their local band is the best.

But if we let the WGI people into this orchestra business, Cleveland will be in as much trouble as Minnesota. ;)

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One thing I will say is that I think the spreads should be larger. Statistically, I don't see how totally different shows can score so similarly.

-the content and execution levels between corps are certainly are not nearly as close

-if execution scores are totaled even with volume of mistakes a small portion of it, there would absolutely not be just 1 point between each corp

-DCI needs corps to have scores at least in the same ballpark to keep competitive interest

-I think again that judging needs to somehow be based more objectively which is problematic as the content and demand factors would affect the more quantifiable execution part

-I do not claim to have any actual solution to this nor do I believe there is one!

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Involving the content - Content is content. On any given night.......yes I get that. Having said that Ruslan and Lyudmila, for example, is a bit more meat than Applachian Spring. Only using these two for an example. Not because of Crossmen vs Cadets - ha! - Anyway, the written composition is obvious so the content should be up in my opinion. BUT if the achievement or excellence is not there then that is where the judge should make it clear by an either rewarding or not so rewarding number. Content questions seem to be subjective. What I think is difficult or engaging seems to be different than what others may feel are difficult or engaging. I use my personal experiences from teaching in DCI, DCA and WGI as to what I think is difficult to write, teach and achieve. I am always hopeful that the judges have the same level of experience if not more. As an instructor or caption head I wanted to hear the comments and would play them for the group. Sometimes that helped with steering the rehearsal the next day. THe kids would know which direction we were heading with regards to cleaning and fixing. In my high school band, I will sometimes have the kids watch in silence the video of the performance - with the sound turned off. They don't get caught up in the hype and then they too see what was happening and why there is a concern.

I remember watching BD's staff use several people recording particular sections of the ensemble during a performance and would follow the section the best they could through out the show. They, staff and sections, would then watch their section video / concerns (even the pit had their performance visually recorded)

I will add to this a bit. Sometimes age does get in the way. If there is a jurrasic panel, then sometimes they only know intervals and if a group does not have well maintained intervals but their feet are in time, it is often distracting to the older folk who put numbers down. Sure they may know the lingo and are about 73 years old (I wish I was making that up) but being human - intervals on the move have to be clean. The step size into and out of a move/transition when going to the next set has to be dead on wth regards to not only the size and upperbody but also the angle of the direction change has to be instant - if it is not, some will not get past it - and probably should not. Time to clean -

Wow - I just thought of something else.......change is not cleaning either. Some groups may have a really creative team but techs may not be used in the best manner. For example, the group is at rehearsal and after just running their assignment, form check / adjust they receive a brief critique from the scaffolding or box for each and every section of the group. Scaffolding then says Field and then the field staff has additional important information tat will involve the closer detailes for the individual for about 30 seconds - "wrap it up" and reset and the process starts over - It seems like a logivcal approach but I have been watching various groups reheharse this year and groups having problems this year need to use the field staff more efectively. On several occasions I see the field staff on the side. Maybe the expectations need to be clearer. This is the time of the season when anything can happen!!

I'll help clean - HA!!

Long winded I know - but passionate - sorry.

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Involving the content - Content is content. On any given night.......yes I get that. Having said that Ruslan and Lyudmila, for example, is a bit more meat than Applachian Spring. Only using these two for an example. Not because of Crossmen vs Cadets - ha! - Anyway, the written composition is obvious so the content should be up in my opinion. BUT if the achievement or excellence is not there then that is where the judge should make it clear by an either rewarding or not so rewarding number. Content questions seem to be subjective. What I think is difficult or engaging seems to be different than what others may feel are difficult or engaging. I use my personal experiences from teaching in DCI, DCA and WGI as to what I think is difficult to write, teach and achieve. I am always hopeful that the judges have the same level of experience if not more. As an instructor or caption head I wanted to hear the comments and would play them for the group. Sometimes that helped with steering the rehearsal the next day. THe kids would know which direction we were heading with regards to cleaning and fixing. In my high school band, I will sometimes have the kids watch in silence the video of the performance - with the sound turned off. They don't get caught up in the hype and then they too see what was happening and why there is a concern.

I remember watching BD's staff use several people recording particular sections of the ensemble during a performance and would follow the section the best they could through out the show. They, staff and sections, would then watch their section video / concerns (even the pit had their performance visually recorded)

I will add to this a bit. Sometimes age does get in the way. If there is a jurrasic panel, then sometimes they only know intervals and if a group does not have well maintained intervals but their feet are in time, it is often distracting to the older folk who put numbers down. Sure they may know the lingo and are about 73 years old (I wish I was making that up) but being human - intervals on the move have to be clean. The step size into and out of a move/transition when going to the next set has to be dead on wth regards to not only the size and upperbody but also the angle of the direction change has to be instant - if it is not, some will not get past it - and probably should not. Time to clean -

Wow - I just thought of something else.......change is not cleaning either. Some groups may have a really creative team but techs may not be used in the best manner. For example, the group is at rehearsal and after just running their assignment, form check / adjust they receive a brief critique from the scaffolding or box for each and every section of the group. Scaffolding then says Field and then the field staff has additional important information tat will involve the closer detailes for the individual for about 30 seconds - "wrap it up" and reset and the process starts over - It seems like a logivcal approach but I have been watching various groups reheharse this year and groups having problems this year need to use the field staff more efectively. On several occasions I see the field staff on the side. Maybe the expectations need to be clearer. This is the time of the season when anything can happen!!

I'll help clean - HA!!

Long winded I know - but passionate - sorry.

I didn't mean to be that long winded - just pushed send - I apologize

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quick thoughts:

Cavies....show is growing on me weekly. Percussion is ###### good and the marimba stuff is a great gimmick that's also performed well. visual seems improved, it's up to the brass now

BD.....musically I love it. visually at times I like it, at other times it's the BD stuff that's driven me crazy the last few years. guard costuming not flattering and for the guys it looks like they belong in a German strip club playing Hasselhoff music

Bloo.....I love the show, but the more I see it, after the opening punch you in the face moment, it's a lot of the same at the upper tempos, with more dynamic shaping and micro phrasing needed. Then...the Bend is cool yes, but the ending is a mood killer.

Phantom......still not enthused by it yet. it makes sense, but just leaves me meh

Crown....after the "ground control to major Einstein on the beach" opening, it's cool with Interstellar Suite. The muffler thing IMo, still too long, and way too often visually its brass running without playing for the sake of running without playing. Percussion much improved in a truly stacked year for drums. I get that visually secondary and tertiary focuses help get you design points, but too much of the stuff happening out on the edges are distracting, and limit the stage the corps can utilize.

SCV...trying so hard not be 2004, at times it loses what made 2004 so special. Still good, though a few drum breaks feel crammed in for the sake of being crammed in

Cadets...performed well. I've yet to hear a recording where I can truly either come to appreciate the vocals and clips or grow to hate them. At times corps still seems like an afterthought, but they play and move well. Never been a fan of Lincoln Portrait, this hasn't changed my mind

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Cadets ... performed well. I've yet to hear a recording where I can truly either come to appreciate the vocals and clips or grow to hate them. At times corps still seems like an afterthought, but they play and move well. Never been a fan of Lincoln Portrait, this hasn't changed my mind.

I happen to like that piece myself, but are any of the judges allowed to express your point of view, to say to the corps: you're using a relatively weak piece of music (and doing nothing to make it better) and so I can't give you as a high a content score as if you'd chosen something stronger?

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One thing I will say is that I think the spreads should be larger. Statistically, I don't see how totally different shows can score so similarly.

-the content and execution levels between corps are certainly are not nearly as close

-if execution scores are totaled even with volume of mistakes a small portion of it, there would absolutely not be just 1 point between each corp

-DCI needs corps to have scores at least in the same ballpark to keep competitive interest

-I think again that judging needs to somehow be based more objectively which is problematic as the content and demand factors would affect the more quantifiable execution part

-I do not claim to have any actual solution to this nor do I believe there is one!

No, no... full point spreads throughout the ranks don't suggest competitive relationships. Different show styles can be judged against each other because the score is largely awarded within the context of intent. It is true that corps A could play half as many difficult passages as corps B and still manage to compete due to the fact that the literature and intent of corps A determines the quantity of such passages. For corps A to add more would defeat the intent of the liturature. Cont. Rep. and Comp. do not refer exclusively to difficulty. They refer to difficulty within the context of purpose and intent.

These spreads should be closer... maybe grouped in tiers... maybe not... but consistent point spreads represent fairly concrete ranking.

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I happen to like that piece myself, but are any of the judges allowed to express your point of view, to say to the corps: you're using a relatively weak piece of music (and doing nothing to make it better) and so I can't give you as a high a content score as if you'd chosen something stronger?

if a judge uses the word like or dislike, consider them toast LOL.

If there are issues with the content, then they need to express what their concerns are ( too dense, too thin) and make sure their number backs up the score.

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this spread says that...

2 is competitive with 1... but 3 is not.

3 is competitive with 2... but 4 is not.

4 is competitive with 3... but 5 is not..

Etc... on down the line.

This is lazy judging. Rank first, score wide... wash your hands and go home.

It's uninformative, and stops short of presenting true competitive relationships.

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