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People have different tastes. There is no magic formula that appeals to everybody when it comes to finding aesthetic pleasure in what we see and hear for entertainment. This is a thread for discussing that.

Just found the video on a site that shall remain anonymous: A) holy #### B) only 823 views... I find that oddly low.

it's you! (the clip remains... I repeat...the clip remains)

One major sports/D&BC difference is that baseball and other competitive sports have never made entry-level participation difficult, and that's why this particular activity's numbers have been slipping for decades. With all the many hundreds of Golden Age corps, there was always a welcome out for rookies, even in the Top Ten. Auditions took place only when one asked to upgrade into another section. Resumes were requested from instructors, not members. Salaries were low (and usually nonexistent for management) to hold participation costs down. And etcetera and so forth, and the beat goes on - but for how long at this rate is anyone's guess.

I just figured I'd throw in my .02 on this point, since I was the vis guy for that line. The 2002 Regiment Snare line had zero seasons of Div I marching experience going into the year. If memory serves correctly the entire battery had 6, 3 of which from one guy in the tenor line. The eventual center snare had marched DCA ( Minnesota Brass ) I believe, and there were at least 2 high school kids in that line. One was a sophomore. Those kids got the crap kicked out of them, I know because I did it. Every day they got up, and asked for more. I know a lot of people look at a 10th place caption score and consider it a "let-down" or "off-year", but when I look at that caption score I think.....wow. I guess you have to be on the journey to appreciate such a "lackluster" destination. Dave Pride on Bass 5 lost about 130 pounds on tour. The top of the bass line was experienced (Together I believe), and 2 of the tenors had real experience. Mason, Lonnie, Chavez, Tyler, and the rest of the staff gave a rag-tag group of kids some of the best instruction on the planet, and worked them into a very musical, respectable, and well received 10th place (IN THE WORLD) percussion line. I've never been prouder of a 10th place anything. I really hope after getting cut the next year those guys all found new homes. It never sat right with me that NONE of them made it back. For what it's worth, retention seemed to be the biggest problem at the time. I'm not sure where the previous season's snares all went, and frankly never had the courage to ask. The guys I had were pretty great though. Even Micah. ~Michael

Hello all! It's been a while since I've posted anything here, but I figured I might as well share this. Inspired by the 20% holiday discount, I finally got around to ordering the 2010 Finals DVD a week or so ago. Most of what I knew about the shows besids mine was either snippets from the gate, opinions from friends over the summer with fan network subscriptions, or stuff from DCP. So, I thought you might be interested in hearing my thoughts while these shows are almost completely fresh and new to me. I've only had time to go through the first disc so far, but it's still a pretty long write-up, so I won't bother pasting it all here - here's the link. EDIT: Well, that's silly. Apparently my title was too long and got cut off, but the forum software didn't tell me. If a mod wants to cut it off to "thoughts on 2010" or something so I don't look like I forgot to finish what I was typing, I wouldn't complain.

If you've been paying attention to my posts, you know my position on this issue. So without getting into a rant, I firmly believe that we can scientifically study exactly why music and more specifically drum corps has such an emotional effect on audience members. Furthermore, I think we can go even deeper, into isolated musical and visual characteristics of a show, and discover how they map to neurological processes and chemical releases in the brain. Such information would be incredibly useful for show designers to aid in creating the most exhilirating products possible, because we'd have the exact knowledge of what makes them so. I know not everyone may agree that such an attempt is even possible, would have any effect, or would even be beneficial to drum corps, but I figured I'd share this article on the topic to help get the ball rolling.

Proper show design. Combined with Perfection(the closer the better).

I listened to Mozart, therefore I'm smart ;-)

We fine 9 FMMs from the 70's went to semis/finals 2010. 6 of the 9 went to finals 2007. Decades ago 2 were in the horn line, 3 were in the drum line and 4 were directors/staff. I'm the only one who registered for FN and on DCP. I didn't mention anything about the corps I researched over the summer except that I liked a Blue corps. "Is this the Blue corps you like Linda?" "No, the other Blue corps." "There's alot of Blue corps, hard to keep track ;)". The reactions from each person in our group of 1 male and 8 females were varied based on their individual aesthetic tastes and we had a great fun time. My statictics are meaningless but want to say on finals day, there was only one corps that we all agreed that we liked, for different reasons :)

THE POWER OF HOP COMPELS YOU!!! THE POWER OF HOP COMPELS YOU!!! THE POWER OF HOP COMPELS YOU!!!

Everytime I see that word, I go right to Max von Sydow in The Exorcist.

While it may be possible to scientifically study why music (and especially drum corps) has an emotional effect on audience members, any scientific quantifying won't take into considering the visceral reaction a drum corps fan's soul has when experiencing a show. Any attempt to create shows to exploit the neurological processes and chemical releases in the brain would be destined to accomplish neither responses. What makes drum corps special to each individual goes beyond numbers, charts and graphs and enters that element that is gloriously unknown...and unknown for a reason we're not likely to understand or comprehend. In addition, such a show conceived by such criteria might work on paper, but might be created for a corps that just can't handle the demands of said show. It's certainly not unknown for instructors to overwrite for a corps' abilities. Conceiving shows is sort of a hit or miss proposition. Creators can't know for sure if what they've put together will truly fulfill their hopes and expectations until the season begins, and often not for weeks into the season. Instead of pondering scientific quantifications to create a show, one's time would be better spent twiddling one's thumbs.

Boston Crusaders - The Core of Temptation. lol

It's been scientifically proven on DCP that it's impossible for anyone to understand what audiences may or may not enjoy. Furthermore, although it's been suggested that you may be able understand what you like, there are serious questions regarding the validity of these findings and proper caution should exercised in determining personal enjoyment of any drum corp related performance. In conclusion it's impossible for anyone to know anything about audience approval or disapproval. ( unless you're studying breakfast entrées in which case waffles are the clear favorite with pancakes a distant second )

I'm just gonna go on liking what I like, regardless of whatever Bill Nye says should be stimulating my neurological processes.

Man.... did you guys hear all that amplified singing? It was major.

I've listened to Blue Devils on my car CD system more than anything else. I'm still catching so many of the nuances that left my jaw on the floor when I first heard it on the Fan Network. While I can't hum the closer, it still causes my blood to boil, (which is a good thing). I'm in as much awe today as I was during the summer.

Lol, he must have forgotten to double-tap the home screen to change the picture orientation before recording it. I did that once. And by the way, I am LOVING what I'm hearing so far.

Two come to mind immediately: Blue Devils and Crossmen. I'd like to see both make a permanent change back to their 80's uniforms...............

<3

On CD only, since I've yet to catch up with later technologies: 1. Cadets 2. Phantom Regiment 3. Madison Scouts 4. Blue Devils

I hope the whole show is of the same tone. Loving it.

:jimlad: would make all this confusion disappear !

Not even to watch a Cadets camp video will I re-up my FB account.

Blue Devils, Bluecoats. That's about it really

Jeff you are waaaaay too serious about this blog stuff. I was joking...but just about everyone else on the planet knew that, except you! Like my wise old pappy used to say... "If you wanna run with the big dogs, you gotta pxss on the tall trees!" BTW...Everyone gets #### on here, any you're not the judge of who gets more. It doesn't ballast your position and only makes you look weak by attempting to enlist a mythical majority (like the self-appointed elitist socs in high school...pathetic). NOTE: I own a Jetta also!

Fair enough. I'll never hold being wrong against anyone.

Oh wow tuff one! Their were so many shows last season that I could just plainly listen to. However, I have to pick the ones I will listen to all the time! Well... here I go! The Cavaliers Madison Scouts The Cadets Phantom Regiment Blue Knights Blue Stars No order... except for The Cavaliers

As this is my first post I hope not to sound to dumb here But it seems to me the corps who is going to beat the devils of which are blue, is going to be the corps who is willing to conform to shows that may not be best suited for the audience. It’s going to be the designers who crack the code of DCI judging the way the BD designers have. And frankly this means a show that is almost impossible to judge. It seems to the dcp rookie that the shows BD has been putting out in the last two years have catered to sections at a time. Rarely does it seem that they did anything as an ensemble for the first three quarters of there shows. They draw attention to one section (high brass, guard, trumpets, low brass) at a time, so that they specifically clean the crap out of that section and the rest of the members on the field don’t necessarily have to be 100 percent clean until its time for there section to be featured. Specific example... I saw at finals the tubas going to make a straight line on the front side of the field to put there tubas down and they literally turned there heads both ways to make sure they were in a straight line... this was at finals. Back to my point, whoever is going switch there show design to show that can only be judged by sampling is going to have the best shot because that’s just how the judges have been judging.

yes, the core instruments (drums, horns, color guard) have evolved...I've stated that...over and over again. In the drum corps world, microphone's ARE an instrument...they project human voice through an amplifier, as well as the amplification of pit and solo instruments. When mallets and the rest of the pit, they were adding percussion to the percussion. They still sounded like percussion. When they added contras and mellos, they were adding horns to the horns. They still sounded like horns. The percussion section and the horn section evolved. When they added asymetric drill, the marching evolved. It's still marching. When they added a&e, they added a completely new category to drum corp instrumentation...and it didn't sound anything like horns or drums.

Thanks! I suppose it is kind of a review, but I doubt there's much activity there in January...

Sure... as the OP states maybe just millionares should be able to complain about anything. Afterall, they're the only ones with the money and ability to grab power. The rest of you working stiff peons who complain should just STFU. You complain. But without any wealth to back it up and do something, you're a friggin nobody but a guy at a coffee shop getting your fill of java with no influence and no say. I think I pretty much got the picture here on what the OP is trying to convey. By and large, he's just being brutally honest, and probably has it right. But I like people who won't be shut up even though they barely have a pot to #### in, with no access. This Country though was built by " complainers ". Farmers and small shopkeepers in New England that had no access at all to the Brittish Parliment and the Monarchy of King George. So my sympathies will always rest with " the complainers " even though they may sometimes feel powerless to do anything to effect change that they desire. As this relates to DCI and Drum Corps, I say let everyone speak their mind with no strings attached at all, and with no responsibility for anyone to do any more than what time, money, health, energy, etc will permit. They can even sit in the coffee shop and complain all day long with others on anything ( including the current state of the Drum Corps activity if they so wish ) and not be compelled to do anything at all by anyone, imo.

Mr. BozzleyB, this bantering between us in no way is to show disrespect to you, I want nothing more than to see good things happen for Drum Corps! Go Packers!

you must've missed the part where they already tried to destroy DCI by killing off open class, taking all voting power, and not allowing the other corps to perform on Fridays and Sundays. Luckily their plan was halted.

I'm going to any and every show possible, no matter whom is in attendance. I think this whole drama over the G7 or G8 or ToC, or whatever it's called, is just crazy. Clearly there are thousands of fans out there who love this activity. Maybe this format with hurt the organization, maybe it will boost exposure, who knows? No one can properly learn without making mistakes. The point is, it's not going to trigger some apocalypse that will destroy DCI. If you honestly think that's what is going to happen, I would suggest taking some anti-paranoia medication and sipping on some sleepy time tea. DCI isn't a communist country invading your shores, the G8 isn't going to steal your first born child, and there will be no sacrificial animal slaughtering; everyone needs to calm down.

Here's one from 91 in front of Holy Name church! Here's one of the 90 snare line. Here's one of me teching the 92 Bluecoats snare line:

I hope this pic comes out...this is from 1990, the Cadets snare line on the fly! I'm the short guy with the pink hat on backwards (ahhh...the 80s/90s!)

So you really have no instances of Hopkins and Gibbs grabbing power in the manner you say other than your own beliefs. If you look at the fall-out from The Powerpoint Meeting last season, I think it's pretty clear that Gibbs and Hopkins' opposition was in full effect. And also effectively removed them. And Hopkins draws so much press and opinion because not only is he controversial, but he's also one of the most "plugged in" directors out there. He puts himself out there. He knows he's a lightning rod. He knows he's going to illicit a response. That doesn't mean he's crazed with power. And let's not forget. Hopkins and Gibbs can propose and propose and propose any and all changes they think would benefit drum corps (or as you seem to think, them specifically), but they cannot single handedly pass and implement them.

I'm fighting the urge to be highly insulted by this post, Tom. But let me say that I'm sorry you feel let down by your drum corps brethren. You insult your "brethren" by saying we, collectively, don't have the money to change the trends. Then you imply that the prime motivation for dissenting opinion here should be an attempt to "grab power". Then you insult GH and Gibbs by saying they, in fact, grabbed the power by nefarious means; all except earning it. You relate DCP contributors to coffee shop bellyachers who just complain about...(politics)...but don't do anything about it, while you forget that the nature of the country they sit in is that their collective wisdom and representation trumps the single-minded goal of those in power. Well... You don't have any inclination of the financial where-with-all of the collective DCP or drum corps fan community. You forget that that very collective financial base provides the means for the GH and DG, and all the others of drum corps, to provide their product. In a much deserved ###-for-tat, my conjecture is that my net worth could buy yours several times over. And even if it is true, SO WHAT? Even Bill Cook, whose financial means could buy all of our (yes, ALL) several times over, tried your approach and today admits that that approach only made him "broker" (his word) for the effort. Whose lead should I follow, his or yours? There are few on DCP, and equally few in the wider drum corps community, who have the inclination to "grab power" from those in power. And again, SO WHAT? In a country of 300 million only a select several hundred seek the power of office, but that fact does not diminish the power of the other 299, 999, 500 people in the "community". We "elect" the leaders of drum corps every year by the very act of opening our wallets to pay (or not) for their product. Hopkins and Gibbs didn't grab the power in the pejorative description you provide. They worked hard for it, dedicated themselves to it, and earned it. In fact, when they attempted to actually "grab power" in the connotation you suggest, the collective wisdom of the greater community shot them down, removed them from power, and installed a new power structure that, in their view (and mine), had the greater community of drum corps more sharply focused in their minds and actions. The collective of the G8 may still wield significant power to change the nature of the activity, but I'm convinced that if they decided to break off and follow their passion drum corps would survive, and maybe thrive, without them. To use your words, "And again, DCI still here...still doing what it does." "Grabbing power for ourselves"? Are you serious? Is that your answer to the disagreements on the direction of the activity? That's not ever been my intent in my active involvement, and I contend that acting on such motivations puts one directly in the same position as those whom you lament as the power-grabbers, cajoling, bullying, badgering, befuddling and, in countless other nefarious ways, "sticking our hands out and grabbing" the power. Is that how you view constructive solutions to disagreement in the ranks? If so, I feel sorry for you. Then, after insulting the financial standings of DCP'ers and in your infinite wisdom, you advise a simple, poor grad student that he doesn't "need money to usurp power". That he only need "go out there and grab the rails". Excuse me, but what a crock of crap that is! I agree that GH or DG would happily bend to the wishes of a very large contributor, but how, exactly, do you suppose they would react to Hrothgar, or anyone else, withholding the check and, instead, simply grabbing the power from them? I'm sorry Tom, I expected better from you. My unverified opinion has been that you are one of the "old guard", respected for your involvement, knowledge, and insight into the activity you share with thousands of others just as passionate as yourself. If this post is an indication of your influence on the betterment of the activity then the only thing I'm befuddled about is how I came to that opinion in the first place. Oh, and you don't know beans about my financial situation, my passion, or my involvement in attempting to exert momentum on the activity.

I cannot disagree more. BD's were not "miles" ahead of either Cavaliers or Bluecoats saturday night. Where they the cleanest, best performed corps? Yes, but they were not miles ahead of cavaliers visually, nor were they miles ahead of other's corps hornlines. I still stand by my comments on how difficult it will be for BD to win again this year. Not only do they have to be better than everyone else and just outperform the crap out of them, they also have to convince the judges to hand out another 3 peat. Something that I think that they are very reluctant to do, especially given the circumstances of BD's position in the scores the last 4 years.

My guess, of the two options you posed ( there's only 2 options available in most scenarios as we all know, right ? ), it would be that " your generation is taking over DCI ". However, as the G-8 presentation last year revealed, if the Corps continue on their current path ( that even George Hopkins himself admitted last year the shows on the whole now do not generate the crowd excitement as in previous decades ) it will be your generation's responsibility and on your watch if DCI folds for lack of sufficient fan interest. This is why the TOC is the G-8's attempt at an experimental vehicle to try and generate greater fan interest, as most all agree the current shows are losing fans, and not replacing those lost fans with sufficient new fans in order to make the DCI enterprise a financially successful endeavor in an increasingly competitive environment for the entertainment options of the nation as a whole..... last year, your " generation " did not support the preseason DCI shows in the theatre, even with the changed format that eliminated the classic Corps show performances from the past. In the theatre I attended, there were more ticket takers under the age of 21, then ticket givers under the age of 21. The YOUNG are not supporting DCI at the levels that are needed. So if the young generation is taking over DCI , then they collectively are striking out with many of their colleagues in the younger generation, who are not coming to the shows at the levels needed to prevent the activity's ultimate demise. But the good news here, is that " change " is coming, as the current path of shows from an entertainment perspective is unsustainable from a purely financial model.

Well I can't see people who have lost all interest in DC posting at all.... Mark me as one who cares about the Jr corps activity but doesn't care enough about the shows to go watch one.....

I will go to G8 shows...I will go to DCI shows...I will go to DCA shows...any shows I am able to attend...makes no difference to me. I also do give money to a G8 corps already...my old corps, the Cadets. I will buy souvies based on which ones I like best, as always. My recent purchases span a wide range of corps, some G8 and some not.

This attitude does more to devide and destroy DCI than anything the G-8 corps have subscribed to. LAME.

This will bolster your reputation quite a bit for many DCP'rs

This is clearly another blatant power grab attempt by Hop by trying to entice people to be his FB friends in order to view the video.

You know, you don't have to give a million dollars to get the attention of a corps. I'd wager that if you gave $2,500 to any corps, you would be one of their top 10 donors. Maybe even top 5. If you were one of the top donors for a corps and decided to stop making your annual donation, don't you think the corps would listen to your concerns? Don't you think they would want to know why you were no longer interested in giving? Don't you think they would react and try to continue to receive your donation? I've looked at the financial statements of all world class corps. There are only a few corps that would be unaffected by the loss of a $2,500 donor. It takes a lot less than you might think to get the ear of those in control.

It was the money and vote Power Grab element of the first G8 proposal that makes the fallback ToC so unappealing to me and I'm sure others here, looking at these poll results. (The list of people pledging not to go is like an honor roll of people who Get It, to me, and this is not just the DCI-conspiracy brigade of previous fights. Some of us have been contributors to one or more G8 corps in the recent past, but they overstepped their bounds here.) If G8 had just come up and said, we'd like to do a ToC tour for part of the summer and try some new creative stuff, we think we can sell a lot of tickets, and we'll share the money with all the corps, with no mention of controlling extra votes, of course it still would have angered some people, but not as many, and the opposition wouldn't have been so intractable. It's the G8 corps that are trying to divide and conquer, and this compromise tour is not going to satisfy these G8 directors that still want the whole pie, I'm pretty sure. They're just biding their time, trying to build an audience for what they're doing, and seeing what sails. They're keeping one foot in each pool. That isn't right. I wish the other directors had not agreed to it. Unless I missed it, other than arguably the Cavaliers which half-heartedly backed away, the other G8 corps have never renounced the G8 proposal and said the attempted vote and money grab was a mistake, we're sorry, it's off the table. I'm not in a trusting mood.

I thought the thread of the title was the announcement of Hoppy's autobiographical show.