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1) nobody knows " the full story " but perhaps the teacher and the student he wanted to " get up your skirt" and also that he wanted to " see naked ". It could be WORSE than the irrefutable information we all know already. You certainly don't know the " full story " either. As far as what I'm " baseing my comments on", it is the known facts of the episode that is undeniable, which is : 1) the teacher was in a position of power over the student... supervisor over underling. 2) He wanted and desired a physical and sexual contact with his underling student. 3) he pursued her on an on going basis.. 4) he recognized his behavior was way out of bounds and solicited the girl in a cover up. 5) We have verifiable info from this individual himself that he requested that the girl lie to authorities about his behaviors if they were caught. 6) the timeline suggests he had no interest in stopping the behaviors, nor taking steps to resign during this sexual pursuit of his student. 7) he only resigned once he was caught. All these things are verifiable from what we DO know. You are correct that we do not know "the full story", nor that it is entirly possible that the episode, (and his behaviors) is much worse than what we all DO know now. That said, the above episodes of sexual agression and pursuit of a student to engage in sexual activities with his student, the cover up and solicitation of the demand for silence and demand of outright lies to authorities if caught, and the subsequent abrupt resignation when he was caught, is sufficient information to conclude from his actions that this " teacher " is untrustworthy and poses a future threat to young women and that Teal Sound has sacrificed safety and health of marchers for some perceived gain in competitive attainment. Thats how I see it anyway. This guy has a perfect right to make a future career in an arena that does provide him with a danger to himself, his employer, and most of all, to those he'd be entrusted with their care. He need not, nor should not, be involved in any capacity that involves the return to a position of power and influence over young people. He forfeited that right. He should go work in a company or a business where he is no danger to himself or others. Working with Teal Sound is not it, imo. Shame on Teal Sound for bringing into their organization as an instructor an individual whose actions would disqualify him from employment in any school system in the country. If he's a risk school systems would not take, then Teal Sound should have no less higher standards for their organization either, imo.

Are men with daughters the only people allowed to have fair opinions?

As long as they don't use as much synth they can only get better

In this case, the student is NOT a child. Let's not forget that children and students are different groups and that we shouldn't just lumped them all together. Of course some children are students, but not all children are students. Also, not all students are children. I know it's simple logic, but it's important to the facts. Read about Blackstone's formulation. Ruining one person's life on only some facts is not a good idea for a community of laws. Painting one thing as another is not a good idea. In this case, your question above suggests that there is a victim here, which I have no idea. I guess if one accepts that a student is automatically a victim, then your question is valid to address. I'm not condoning anything, merely pointing out that we don't have a complete set of facts. That's what the court would be for... For facts... For an innocent child to be harmed, they must be a victim. I would fight tooth and nail to keep an innocent child from harm. I would fight tooth and nail to keep anyone who is innocent from being harmed. Also, the attribute of being a student doesn't automatically make one a victim. The facts that we have read have shown an unethical occurrence; not one that is illegal, or predatory. It was wrong and it appears that the teacher paid for their unethical behavior by losing their job. I don't see anything to suggest that this teacher will repeat. His actions were unethical, but not what many have painted them to be and certainly not something that I would ever dream of doing. Had the student been underage, it becomes a completely different matter. The would have been something unethical and something illegal. Then I'd be for putting the screws to the teacher after hearing ALL the facts, not just the sensational facts we've all read about. I'm really not trying to be difficult. I more so trying to accurately comment on what the teacher did and react to that.

It works better when you're an annual top-6 corps. Kinda "Aw, shucks." I guess it's a different story when you're bottom-6 or fighting to get into top-12. Garry in Vegas

Here is an average of every world class finalist's placing (ONLY taken from the top 12 - years corps were 13th and lower on any given year were not included in this simply because it would take even longer than it already did). Average Placement 1. Blue Devils - 2.421 2. Anaheim Kingsmen - 3.333 3. The Cadets - 3.500 4. Santa Clara Vanguard - 3.800 5. The Cavaliers - 4.553 6. Phantom Regiment - 4.947 7. Star of Indiana - 5.222 8. 27th Lancers - 5.750 9. Madison Scouts - 6.083 10. Bridgemen - 6.429 11. Oakland Crusaders - 7.000 12. DesPlaines Vanguard - 7.000 13. DeLaSalle Oaklands - 7.000 14. Muchachos - 7.333 15. Suncoast Sound - 7.429 16. Blue Stars - 7.500 17. Bluecoats - 7.958 18. Carolina Crown - 8.000 19. Kilties - 8.000 20. Argonne Rebels - 8.000 21. Boston Crusaders - 8.077 22. Crossmen - 8.500 23. Spirit - 8.944 24. Blue Knights - 9.000 25. Royal Crusaders - 9.000 26. Troopers - 9.000 27. Seneca Optimists - 9.000 28. Glassmen - 9.125 29. Freelancers - 10.000 30. North Star - 10.000 31. Purple Lancers - 10.000 32. St. Andrew's Bridgemen - 10.000 33. Black Knights - 10.000 34. Velvet Knights - 10.125 35. Magic of Orlando - 10.500 36. Guardsmen - 10.500 37. Sky Riders - 11.167 38. Colts - 11.250 39. Cascades - 12.000 40. Dutch Boy - 12.000 41. Bleu Raeders - 12.000 42. Commodores - 12.000 Average Score 1. Blue Devils - 95.499 2. The Cadets - 94.778 3. Star of Indiana - 93.544 4. Santa Clara Vanguard - 93.362 5. Phantom Regiment - 92.359 6. The Cavaliers - 92.258 7. Madison Scouts - 90.423 8. Suncoast Sound - 90.207 9. Boston Crusaders - 89.725 10. Carolina Crown - 89.498 11. Bluecoats - 89.453 12. Blue Knights - 88.345 13. Glassmen - 88.325 14. Crossmen - 87.506 15. Spirit - 86.911 16. Velvet Knights - 86.575 17. Anaheim Kingsmen - 86.433 18. Bridgemen - 86.207 19. 27th Lancers - 86.092 20. Blue Stars - 85.585 21. Magic of Orlando - 84.258 22. Oakland Crusaders - 84.050 23. Cascades - 84.050 24. Colts - 83.956 25. Freelancers - 83.480 26. Royal Crusaders - 82.400 27. Troopers - 82.361 28. Kilties - 82.292 29. Sky Riders - 82.292 30. Dutch Boy - 82.200 31. Muchachos - 81.533 32. DesPlaines Vanguard - 81.250 33. Seneca Optimists - 80.600 34. DeLaSalle Oaklands - 79.950 35. North Star - 79.567 36. Guardsmen - 78.300 37. Argonne Rebels - 78.025 38. Purple Lancers - 77.150 39. St. Andrew's Bridgemen - 77.025 40. Black Knights - 75.750 41. Bleu Raeders - 73.950 42. Commodores - 72.250 And now I am done making long lists like these that take up way too much time...

You can be plenty different without dropping tons of props on the field. That fad has passed in drum corps for the most part. How much truck space (and therefore gas) is required to lug all these props everywhere? I know there are corps that have had separate trucks just for their props. Its a lot of wasted time, energy, and money for little payoff.

You're right. I just want to be sure that we all see this for what it truly is: a violation of student/teacher boundaries. That is wrong, but it is not pedophilia. It may or may not have been predatory, but it was wrong. We don't have any more facts in order to ascertain much more.

I would question just how many of you actually know both sides of this particular story. Who amongst you know the full story and are not basing your comments on what you've read on forums or something you've heard from a friend of a friend? I suspect the answer to that is not many. I'm not being critical of anyone because we're all entitled to our opinion but it's very important to remember that there's always two sides to every story. As for the pole, I voted yes... 100%

I agree, I would love to see them get a new drill writer(not that Kevin Ford is doing them a disservice, but to get a change in drill design for them), and have a visual staff that will push them to the next level. Their playing has been fine, now all they need is a more refined visual and great things could happen. I also don't know much about the two guys, but as far as I can tell they seem like good choices. Oh, I also hope last year helped them learn that props might not always be the best route to choose (not to say that they never work, but certain aspects of props do not).

I love old drum corps, new drum corps in between drum corps. So do many of my friends. And really the countdowns to us were like " hey let's go pay money to watch what we already own at home". The thrill wore off after a year Stick to live events like the kickoff and quarters.

The Berry Center, Cypress, (Houston) TX. Gotta love high school football in TX!

Mods, feel free to close if this is deemed against DCP rules. That said, I'm starting a blog to profile the various venues that host drum corps shows. My hope is to help fans considering attending a show to be better informed of what it would be like to go to that show. Essentially it's a preview of the "theater" that may help people better select seats, sections, etc, and also possibly help potential tour and event promoters successfully submit their bids for hosting future competitions. The blog can be viewed at http://marchingarenas.blogspot.com/#!/. Right now I'm building it mainly with my own photos, but if you have pics of your own you'd like to share or want to suggest a stadium for me to profile, just send me a PM or email. Happy marching!

I'll second that

here's the facts: enough info has come out to destroy his reputation, innocent or not. enough information has come out to make teal Sound look bad....regardless if he is innocent or not. in this day and age, an organization can not have any kind of smears on it's reputation if it wants to succeed. I know, i worked for one of those nast subprime lenders years ago. Now, I'm happily employed by one of the best mortgage companies out there, but when trying to get this job, that association...even tho I was never listed in any customer complaints or litigation....itgot me several looks and lots of questions. It took a lot to overcome that association. regardless of innocence or guilt, this association has and will hurt Teals image. In this day and age, NO drum corps can afford that. Note...i'm not saying he's guilty or innocent. I am saying regardless of that, this coming to the light of day HURTS Teal Sound. Big. For any endeavour that calls itself an educational activity, this is the last thing you want tied to your name.

How British of you!

Something that worries me about the boston-ication (or is that tarponization) of blue stars staff. Boston peaked, plateaued, and then fell off placement wise. Stars hit 8th, stayed there 3 years, and dropped to 11th. Hopefully history doesnt repeat here.

I really enjoyed their use of synth and synth effects last year. It was very creative and blended well. The problem was with pit/electronics balance within the overall ensemble.

or sewing tables.

Tom Santino is fantastic educator, but his lines at Boston weren't the strongest...

Be interesting to see what they do on visual (both drill design and visual staff), a weakness of the corps for awhile on the sheets. Design wise id like to see less reliance on props, and maybe a bit less drill-wise so the show peaks in august instead of september. As far as these announcements, dont know enough about either name, but another boston guy i see....

Dan Tewalt: HS band director and composer of band/piano music who formerly marched with Phantom Regiment (a drum and bugle core) and won the World Championship in 2008; he's from Brooklyn Center, OMG they spelt it wrong!

While not competitive at a high level, on a management evaluation, les Stentors would look like a champion. Run in the black for the last 5 years, living in their means, even insvesting money towards other corps. Plenty of volunteers (all parents are require to volunteer 25 hours - or pay an extra 150$). Maintaining one of the lowest tuition I know (850$ if you do NOT volunteer). Even offering an extra deduction of 400$ for a parent doing at least 10 days on the DCI tour. Great food: cook by... a professional cook!! -------- Other side: Yes they still play with G bugle Yes they travel in school bus (but they own it) Yes they have a younger membership (average 14,5) Yes they have problem finding full time staff in a french province with no other drum corps, and not a single marching band around! ------- Management wise; a really good organisation

When he mentioned that part about woodwinds he showed his true colors.

Is this about one person or everyone?

Thought I'd throw my $0.02 in. It takes great management regardless to run a corps well, but it's my opinion it takes a special kind of person/people to either start up or resurrect a corps. A corps that is up and running benefits from it's previous success. A corps like BDB doesn't have to worry about recruiting, uniforms, equipment, staff, and the other million things as much as Brand New Corps does because BDB has a large base of support. I have never seen anything less than class from DCI corps and members, but in the OC realm, BDB, SCVC, OC, Spartans, Music City are standout corps.

Yeah many of these predictions don't have a super solid base, but I'd say most people are basing their predictions on placements from 2011, all the staff changes, and how they want a certain corps to place next year. I think the first two are pretty good ways to make predictions for 2012.

+1

So in your view, if an individual resigns for disgusting and vile pursuits where the " teacher " said what he WANTED to do up the girls skirt,( among other things ) but the student and parent does not take legal action it translates in your view of ( quote ) " secrets " that the family or girl wish to keep, perhaps the girls cooperation " ie willingness to be seduced by the " teacher " ? ( you mean its not thinkable that the parents simply could not incur the legal costs of a lawyer, or didn't want put their teenager daughter thru the ordeal of a trial ? The girl must have been instead... what ?.... " asking for it " ?) Gawd, was an unfortunate leap here for you to blame the student girl here when there is NO evidence that she wanted these agressive sexual pursuits from her " teacher ". She was told by the teacher to keep it " secret ". Thats the only " secret " that is verifiable and documented, not the " secrets " your imagination is concocting to lend support to a " teacher " that was so far out of bounds he had to abruptly resign.. and only when CAUGHT. There is also NO evidence that this girl followed the " teacher " after he resigned nor made any contact to him. NO evidence that she pursued him at ALL. We have NO evidence that the girl had her own " secrets " and that tag on the student is most, MOST unfortunate.... also, we have NO evidence to show that the " teacher " was remorseful at all. You assume his remorsefulness on what grounds ? You have none that I'm aware of. Furthermore, you put the girl in a defensive position by asking why her parents did not sue. Might we likewise ask of the predator why he did not sue the girl and the parents for implicating him in behaviors that he belived were false and libelous to him and his future career as an educator ? Did HE do so ? Why not ? Did he write any reply to the Orlando Sentinel to explain himself in a matter that would perhaps help the public understand more fully his actions ? In a manner that would provide his side of the story if it was different than what the paper reported ? Why not ? If he did little wrong, why did he resign abruptly ? Since you accuse ( without a shred of evidence ) that the teenager might have " secrets ", might it also be true that this predator likewise has additional " secrets "... much worse " secrets "... that simply never came to the public light as well ? We certainly can make the same leap on conjecture and speculation with this predator as we do with the girl herself. What we DO know, is that this individual had a sexual pursuit of his student, that was on going, that he wanted a physical sexual contact with her, wanted to keep it " secret " from everyone, and told his student to lie about it all if the two of them were found out. Sorry, but I think I know enough from these verifiable behaviors and events alone to disqualify him from being in any future environment where he is a " teacher " and has girls of similar age in his supervision. I and others didn't disqualfy him though in reality. He disqualified himself with his recent actions and behavior. And " NO " I don't have a focus on the predators here driven by national media. I don't particularly care about these people. These are disgusting people when they use their position of power to use that power over young people to advance their own selfish sexual needs and wants. My focus is on the student. They are the vulnerable. They need to be protected and have a safe environment in an instructional setting and an environment conducive to good training and good examples from adults put in positiions of authority and most importantly TRUST. This " teacher " failed that fundamental test. And guess what ? He doesn't get a make up test in my view. He flunked out on the TRUST bit and bigtime. And Teal Sound has made a huge huge mistake in hiring an individual that had these clear sexual predatory behaviors with his student less than 2 years ago.

Teal Sound probably would be well served now to make a telephone call to their Insurance Agent that sold them their Liability Insurance Policy. You can bet your life that their current Insurance policy will not cover them now that they have willingly hired an individual that has resigned due to a sexual pursuit of a student under his supervision. If this individual has another incident, Teal Sound will most likely be sued by the parent of the young person. The liability policy will not pay for such gross negligence where Teal Sound knowingly hired this individual with this risk clearly out of the ordinary provisions of the liability insurance policy that covers standard risks... not gross negligence by the Corps that knowingly took on this 10 fold worse risk with this hire. Once the policy provisions decline the coverage at point of claim ( it would ) Teal Sound would need to pay the damages to the victim themselves out of Corps revenues. If sufficient revenues were not available, Teal Sound would need to file for Bancrupty protection, and in that case the Corps is finis.. done... kaput. Additionally, depending on the circumstances, a lawyer could sue DCI as well for damages should it be believed that they had oversight responsibilities that they failed to perform once this individual's hiring became known to them. ( DCI, might be held harmless in this, but it certainly is open to some question in my opinion). Teal Sound is taking on a HUGE financial risk for themselves ( along with the all important Human risk ) in hiring this individual. This part is indisputable.

Close, but you forgot the most important step. 1. Administration 2. Design staff 3. Instructional staff 4. Members But all four must work hand in hand to see it all come together. When you have 1, 2, and 3, you will attract a higher level of 4.

Don't forget "support staff". A well run organization provides all staff and members the tools they need while being well rested, well fed and safely delivered to all destinations. Members and staff with freedom and energy to be creative is powerful indeed.

Wow! You know, you have some great points and are obviously very passionate about this topic. I also care about the children and do not want to see any harm come to them, or anyone. I'm just not willing to go on a witch hunt and sensationalize this whole thing without having knowledge about what happened. It's coming across as fear mongering. This is a common theme in the world today, too, and is another problem with society It seems... You've mentioned several things here that I have not read in any online article. Who knows what's REALLY going on or went on here? We must also be careful about ruining the life of this person. I subscribe to the Blackstone's formulation: "better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer". What we have in this case is too much, "I don't know" for me. Yes, at its worst, what has been described by a few here is terribly bad. Noone here is going to have the authority to really get to the truth or the facts, so all we have is gossip, libel, defamation, slander, and vilification. Hooray! Can we please talk about drum corps now? Thanks! P.S. I don't know any of the parties involved. I just HATE gossip that usually turns out to be grossly inaccurate in the end after all the damage has been done. If all of this is true, then I don't think Teal should have gone with this individual. I just don't know about trusting the data.

Can I predict that Teal will fold?

I don't remember Devils winning much( Championships) then but, Blue Devils were GREAT during that stretch! I just wish the judging community and BD put more value on visual (drill)difficulty.

Scouts also Picked up Adam Dalton who teaches Carolina Crown colorguard.. Scouts should make a strong showing in 2012.... no matter what!!!!

Adam Sage does a fantastic 1st season with any colorguard... I hope he is hired to clean. Jim Moore IS THE BEST in the guard business... As long as JIM MOORE is running the ship, we are fine. Adam does a great job as "back up" Jim Moore is the best when it comes to design.. I think this will be amazing... Only becaue ADAM has JIM as the writer. I give adam two years,,, to get us in the top 5 guards... if not... Ax him.

Tom: I'd be game, but I invested quite heavily in production costs for a musical based on the revival of the BetaMax phenomenon. It's opening next week in Singapore and if reviews are positive, I'm bringing it to community theater in Minot, South Dakota for a pre-Broadway run. How many tickets could I sell you?

one issue I see here is PR. face it, the stench is there, regardless of the facts of the individual's case. Now imagine you are knocking on doors looking for sponsors and people say "well you have that guy involved with your group......so no." Yes people make mistakes. Many people learn and grow from them. Sadly many do not, and I don't know this person to say they did or didn't. but perception is everything, and in an activity where now word gets around about everything...it can, will and in this case, has led to bad PR

interesting

Hi All, I am very happy to report that The St. Kevin Emerald Knights WILL be in Plymouth once again this year . I should add, better that ever too ! Great rehearsal yesterday & we are looking forward with pride in doing the show.The contract is signed but Plymouth has not updated their website yet. All the Best, Mike D.

The absolute greatest, most awesome, spectacular, spine-tingling best sound I've heard in any stadium anywhere. Even when the corps on the field is playing softly, one is enveloped by a glorious sonic blanket of sonorous brass. It doesn't even matter than one can see drums warming up behind the stadium...once the corps inside the stadium is playing, it's like having headphones on. Everyone within a few hours drive deserves to hear drum corps in this venue.

NO!!! I am grateful that the days of copping out and playing the same thing in consecutive years are gone! I loved some of those shows back then, but c'mon! That is so weak. Corps that did that basically admit that they dont want to put in any effort and regurgitate the same ole stuff. Empire State of Mind was one of the most memorable and special moments I have ever witnessed. I dont want them trying to one-up themselves on that. It was a wonderful moment in time, leave it alone!

High School Stadiums in Ohio aren't too shabby either Canton McKinley High School - Fawcett Stadium Massilon High School - Paul Brwon Stadium

Raymond has been with the Kiltie organization for decades, starting with the Kiltie Kadets. Although retired from the performance field after the 2010 season, "Moon" has continued to be a active lifetime member behind the scenes putting together many positive things; most recently organizing a great Kiltie Honor Guard for the groundbreaking of the new "Y" facility in Racine. He has "a heart as big as a watermelon, and plaid all over"!

I'm glad you did this - I posted a similar poll earlier and it was erased - and the moderator has not responded to several requests on why it was removed. I am completely dumbfounded in the judgement of Teal Sound.

Blue stars, 1979 to 2008? That's 29 years

NOT JUPITER.

We need a drum corps rage comic thread. I have a few I can share.