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Sure, that's fine. So long as it's called "Guys who think deeper about the future of the activity instead of just b-itching about electronics and hula-hoops." Plenty of other threads here for you to visit that don't require you to "sift through all of this". Try one of those.

There is no such ceiling.

$3250 x 7 = $22,750 $3250 x 18 = $58,500 $3250 x 40 = $130,000 For the amount corps will be willing to chip in, you will need a lot more corps. I thought we were hiring a highly paid CEO because he had all the contacts. Now you are saying we need a whole boardroom full of other people with contacts? I thought we were going to grow the customer base. That only grows the donor base, changing DCI from a maker to a taker. Corporate donors come and go. Witness Circle K, Knights Inn, A.J. Wright. I would rather DCI be earning $10,000,000 than begging for $30,000,000, maybe even getting it briefly, and then crashing in ruin when it goes away. If growing audience and participation is what you now refer to as a "bake sale mentality", then get me an apron. Sounds reasonable. That is what they did in 2009, when developing that business plan. I thought we were hiring one highly paid CEO with all the necessary contacts - or one who could recruit BOD members with the necessary contacts. Now we have to hire a whole team of people? Oh. Then this whole post was a waste of your time, since that will never happen.

Ok, how about this: This show is boring, visually not as hard as Crown, Cadets, and Cavaliers, and the arrangement is too choppy and without melody. I hate them and wish they were dead. Better?

There will be much more information released very soon from Heartliner themselves. I met with them at the DCE Championship in September and found them to be enthusiastic about a possible DCA trip. We communicate often. I can tell you that they have already booked hotel accommodations and will most likely compete in both Bridgeport and Pennsauken the week before the championship. They have already declared class A. Corps Director Tom Rohr and several others who met with me in The Netherlands were proudly wearing their Syracuse Brigadier jackets from a few years back... It was quickly apparent that they know what they're doing... great people... As a former Brigadier myself, I look forward to assisting them in any way I can...

Wow, if any corps has had rinse and repeat execution, it's certainly hasn't been the Blue Devils.

I appreciate all of your concerns, Dan, and agree that it'll be an uphill climb. In terms of what it would take to convince them that a strong executive division is in their own interest....well, we're wired to pack mentality. What you really need are 4 or 5 influential voices among the voting membership, representing a range of sizes and regions, who can serve as vote getters within their own constituencies. The corps are going to have to invest in personnel who can help them create a stronger primary product, a bigger range of participants and audience members, and the type of sponsors who can afford to underwrite the expenses of getting Finals back on tv. I kind of split the difference between Daniel and Jeff R here; I think the product is a weakness at present (sometimes, not always), and that you can't discount the need to appeal to adults too. The audience for pro skiing is primarily 40s and 50s adults, even as the participants are the ages of their kids. Because of that, you have companies like Red Bull AND Volvo signing up to sponsor downhill events, even though the two brands are selling to two completely different demos - the activity is what ties those two groups together. Commit to the idea of bringing in a strong leadership team with a proven track record (and I'd agree with Daniel that they'll have to be recruited; you don't want the guys who apply for the gig), and hire a headhunter who has experience filling those types of positions with other organizations. Then make sure you give the new team at least 3 years to start showing some results. But management by committee, with a relatively weak executive, has already shown itself to be a less than sterling success. It's not anyone's 'fault' - its just how it worked out. Time to try something new.

Increasing marching members from 150 to 200, one of those ideas eminating from the Seven. 50 new members times 7 corps is 350 new members. The equivalent of 2-plus new corps under current rules. Dues, at $3,500 each, equals more than $1.2million, the equivalent of two "mid-tier" corps in today's dollars, or one "Star"-type-funded corps. How about the Seven pony up $175,000 each and start two, new corps? Call them what you want - "DCI's Best", or pick a new name for each new corps. Both would be sponsored, mentored, grown, and driven by staff from the Seven until they're on their feet and self-sufficient, which wouldn't take long as each corps would be a $700m corps out of the blocks (150 members x $3500 in fees plus $175,000 "seed" money from the Seven). Which would be a better vehicle from growth of the activity? 200 members in existing corps, doing the existing tour, with just more headaches (imagine a school board asked to house 1400 kids instead 1000), or two additional corps allowing an expansion of the tour and performing more shows in front of more fans? If the Seven are not willing to pony up to pay a leader who might issue edicts contrary to what the Seven want, could they be convinced to use their 200 member idea to, instead, actually grow the participation rate and activity?

I have no problem with this. "...compensation paid to DCI..."? Are you talking about serializing investment such that the initial is but one of the serial payments and the follow-on investments represent the total investment by the investor? How does this work in real life when investors are looking for a substantial ROI? Cash up-front is in anticipation of future cash flows, discounted at a required ROI rate to represent present value dollars. Serialized investment is generally made from cash flow from operations, plus investment amount, but you suggest the investor will operate at a loss for the initial years. I'd sure like to see this math on paper because I can't make the math work for an investor who's looking for an ROI even over a serial period. "Writes checks" based upon an annualized expected ROR that provides him with a margin of safety in addition to the expected ROR. What cash flow does DCI provide over a timeframe that has a hope of making such an investment attractive enough to a potential investor? DCI has limited assets to sell to sponsors. The most common metrics for DCI's corporate partners are: • Live impressions – people through the turnstile (±375k) • People participating on the field (±5k) • Eyeballs and clicks on the website (various) • Downloads and subscriptions to the Fan Network (various) ALL financial issues are based on cash flow, Dan, so your observation is not a unique view. The question is: Where is the cash flow going to come from that provides an investor with a competitive ROR plus a margin of safety to justify his investment in "marching band"? The investor has a strong incentive to grow the business just to make back his investment. What metric allows him to make a return on his investment? Impressions are purchased usually at a cost per thousand. Depending on the medium, this CPM could range from pennies to nickels and quarters... but at the end of the day, we just don't have enough impressions in any category of the existing business model to enable us to go after the big guns. When Mountain Dew sponsors this year's Dew Tour, they'll be plunking down $8-10 million per year for the title sponsorship... and the property (owned by NBC Sports' Alli Sports division) is estimated to be worth $40 to $60 million dollars. We have a hard time attracting top dollar for title sponsors at even ONE of the "Premier Events." It's pretty simple to do the math: How much can you charge someone on a per-head basis for an attendance of 8k? 12k? If a sponsor is used to spending pennies per impression, it has to be a pretty incredible offering (or serious emotional engagement) to get them to cough up serious money to sponsor one of our events or the entire tour. No matter how you slice it, an investor is going to expect a ROI over the time commitment, say 10 years. Where does that return come from? Increased participation —> More families in attendance —> More impressions to deliver to sponsors = more value to sponsors = more money to DCI = more opportunities for all. Sponsors really don't care how good the corps are... they care about impressions. It's a clear-cut case of "the game" vs. "the business." General Effect scores, opaque judging systems... it's all wonderful and irrelevant to someone who wants to put their product in front of the largest possible number of people. Every time we lose a performing group, the bottom of the pyramid crumbles a little more, and the audience shrinks... thereby diminishing the opportunity to expand the sphere of influence.

Good luck with this one!! I think people have tried before. Supposedly you might be able to call and order a copy? Not sure though. I'd love to read the bylaws myself. I seriously don't get what the big secret is with DCI. That is the whole problem with everything. It's a big ####### secret. Seriosuly.. you could forget what DCI is in the off season sometimes... I know I forget some corps exist... only reason I know DCI still exists is because they update their facebook everyday with pointless ####.. and every once in a while a cool 1 minute video clip of a random show with a random corps that doesn't exist anymore! Whatever.. I digress. Half of the fans of DCI probably have no clue at all about the TOC/G7 drama.. and don't realize that DCI could be gone after this year.

Just checked out the source music. It's modern Blue Crew style all the way. It has the potential to be as thrilling as "Constantly Risking Absurdity," as musically incredible as "Through a Glass Darkly," or as esoterically distant and ridiculous as "Cabaret Voltaire." Keeping an open mind. As long as they don't crank up the PA system with voiceover (let the horns do the talking) or try and build houses on the field, this could be very good. I'd love to see the old Blue Devils I loved for so long return. I'm not going to hate on the concept, but I'm not going to get my hopes up either. We'll see in June.

It's 50 dollars to be evaluated and critiqued by that talented staff since every submission gets feedback. I think it's worth it.

One view would be BD is embracing, even celebrating, its controversial reputation directly by programming controversy. If that's the case - and I haven't a clue if it is - then this might well seem to me as a shift from the avant guard to the bourgeois a bit. I haven't loved everything they've done the past few years (loved 2011 and liked 2012 - 2009, 2010 not so much). Still, I am willing to give them enormous credit for their vision, which often is brilliant. Rite of Spring? I don't know. HH

Crown's moving....but not playing. Someone who puked on the field.

And he said what? That he doesn't know what to do? Please. He's had this manifesto brewing for more than a decade. He also likens himself to be a good salesman, too. You mean someone like, oh, I don't know, Bill Cook? And we all know how that turned out. I run a business twice the size of what you quoted. Would they be stupid to not listen to me? Their egos don't allow such things, Dan, and any potential "investor" will smell that from a mile away during just the first meeting with them. How does one convince a narcissist to not be one?

The arrangements actually feel a bit closer to 91 and 93 than much recent stuff... just with a bit of a twist. Not chopped, not bopped.... full phrases, melody and jazz.

The only problem with any electronic social media is how people interpret a post. We all read the same thing but we all "read" it differently.

programming is an issue. You can load up with kids, but those kids have a short shelf life. Adults who stick around will spend a lot, can travel to more events that cost more etc. DCI has been trying the kids first thing since what....97? What has it gotten them? Kids can't afford the big bucks shows ( unless DCi gives discounts, which cuts into profit) and there's fewer and fewer shows for kids to go to nationwide.You have to have a balance. If you want your company to be stable, you have to RETAIN as you add. DCI adds, but it's barely replacing what left

So be it. Honestly, if the directors of the 7 share the viewpoints of the two of you here (that we should fire the DCI staff and focus resources to bring in high-priced strangers to take a blind shot at wooing corporate sponsors), and the rest of the corps disagree (would prefer to grow the activity via participation, audience and product), then I think both sides would be better off free from each other, and free to pursue their different agendas unabated (for the first time in 15 years). Yes, I know. That is what I was pointing out. a. Top corps (i.e. the 7) might only be willing/able to pony up $3250 apiece, judging from Music in Motion, Inc., experience. b. Have not established whether other member corps will be willing to pony up at all. c. In your vision, there would be less member corps (18 instead of 22-23). d. Non-member corps have no incentive to contribute to the cause - unless you are considering making all 40 active corps DCI members, in order to get them on board. e. Even with all 40 corps contributing $3250 each, that does not cover the salary difference you are talking about.

I have seen you make proposals like this for quite some time now. I have also seen people point out that the part I underlined is a dealbreaker. The video history of DCI is under DCI copyright, and thus is a significant part of the glue that holds DCI together. How do you propose to convince DCI to relinquish that - by repeating the proposal over and over until they agree? How quickly we all dropped the top-18 idea and moved on to the fire-Dan-Acheson idea. Times like this make it difficult to believe these "ideas" are not just Trojan horses for the G7 proposals.

The only other option is to completely get rid of the miniscule amount of Open Class corps we have now by just putting them in World Class, let the OC corps who don't want to financially commit to the WC tour model be regional-based, and just do away with the entire class. Open Class Prelims/Finals seems pretty pointless as it currently is, as all 14 corps got to perform in OC Finals anyway, even if two of them were exhibition. Maybe instead of doing away with World Class Quarters or Semis, DCI can get rid of Open Class stuff and save more money by not using judges or the stadium Monday & Tuesday. Attendance seems fairly miniscule for those shows anyway (especially for OC Prelims) Perhaps that's a more apt solution that the OP is looking. I'm fine with DCI dissolving Open Class all together and just lumping everyone into World Class.

If you find " CEO of a 30 million dollar organization ", presumably unfamiliar with Drum Corps, to give up that position ( and its ancillary annual million dollar salary, big time perks, etc )to come in and run DCI let me know. People that work in the Commercial arena are there for a reason. Typically, they don't drop that arena to then go and work full time for 501 C Corporations, and for Non Profit Youth Organizations. Furthermore, just who is going to pay this professional CEO from the outside, and just what exactly do you envision his or her salary to be that will be commensurate with their current salary running these successful million dollar commercial ventures ? Who is going to take a large pay cut to go into a venture that they have virtually little to no prior experience with ? I think we need to get real here frankly as to what is both practical as well as financially doable within the youth Drum Corps idiom.

There was also a C.Y.O. corps from St. Matthias Parish in the Ridgewood (very German) section of Queens County on L.I. in NY. It was called, "The Blue Max" a term associated with German fighter pilots as in the novel and movie of the same name. The corps is pivotal to DCI history as it had as a member Jeff Sacktig and his brothers and sisters before he and John moved on to the the Crossmen, and then Jeff later to Garfield Cadets. The rest, as they say, is history. :thumbup:/>/>/> The other corps from Ridgewood was the OLMM Orbits (Our Lady of Miraculous Medal) who with Max and others competed in the L.I. and Greater NY circuits which became hotbeds for later great contributors to DCI history (e.g. Paul Litteau, Pete Emmons, Wayne Downey, Noel Borden, Ernie Robinson, Tom Beresford, Kevin and Maureen "Moe" Smith to name but a few.)

Good luck this year. Hopefully I'll make it to finals this year.

We're saving that for when our favorite television shows all go into reruns.

You people are being far too civil with your analysis of the BD 2013 show. How are we ever going to get this beast-of-a-season off the ground with all this.........well..... civility! We need much more guess work based on snippets of intel from he said, she saids....and clip art from Corpsband. In previous years, by now, we would have formulated a completely hopeless outlook that these guys are ever going to do drum corps properly again...... gone to our respective corners......put up our dukes......filed grievances with Boo.....called at least one Corps Director a "Non-G7 assassin".....warned about choppy music.....something about "approachable or accessible" and them NOT being either......................and at least one prediction of BD finally driving that last nail in DCI's ever present coffin. Now, get with it! Don't make me turn this thread around! 16!

I never thought of that, because I was distracted while watching that scene by my uncontrollable pining for the fjords.

Well, let's be honest...every corps follows a formula to one extent or another.

I agree. I think people are mistaking "formulaic" with "cookie cutter." BD's staff have an incredibly successful formula for designing. I would say there shows have been wildly different from year-year, though they do follow a similar formula year-year.

I am looking forward to BD's 2013 show. I have the feeling it will connect on many levels. I do hope it's not as out there as the 2012 show. Speaking of their 2012 show, re: the bird cage at the beginning. Does it contain a Norwegian Blue nailed to the perch?

Actually, last year I thought I heard The Academy's 2012 show being called "What the Blue Devils are playing next year!" :tongue:/>

I forgot that Zimmer did "The Dark Knight" too...my first thought when I saw his name was "160 BPM" from "Angels & Demons," but that's kind of been played out (Bluecoats '10 and Cadets '11, and everyone at WGI in 2010--still an excellent piece of music, though). There's a lot of good music in both the "A & D" and "DaVinci Code" soundtracks that would lend themselves to this show. I'm reeeeeeeeeally excited to see this!

And with a score of 99.9.....Blue Devils Soooo excited to see what bd does with this amazing program

You're kidding! "The Flaming A's" as in "holes? That's as bad as the KY Warriors.

That would be VERY cool...esp if the whole corps was wearing a costume of some type. This show has a lot of potential, based on the source material.

Ok, Cavaliers officially have my attention now. I'm excited to see what they can do with this concept! Mike

If it didn't say "Rite Of Spring" but "Hey, BD is playing some more jazz arrangements from the same Don Sebesky album as Bird and Bela in B Flat" it doesn't sound nearly as avant guard, bourgeois or risky. (And the Brenzel is in the same vein as the Sebesky) This is practically a slam dunk show concept for BD. Surprising that they are just now getting around to it. There is a slight chance of over-developing the concept, but it will be hard to screw it up.

This year sounds like a good one to me for sure.

As if they're not already offended by some of the skimpy guard costumes? They'll live. And the corps hasn't stated that they'll be handing out applications for the "Secret Society" or are heaping praise upon it. As far as we know, it could be a show about the G7.

I heart you

Y'all want to bash and neg Stu (and I must admit, I've had my moments) but he (and others) has an excellent point. This "story" lacks a few elements. Like say ... details. And maybe ... sourcing.

If your information turns out to be true, it also shows why making quick judgements without having many, if any, facts based on a single paragraph sound-bite story is a bad move. Immediate information through modern technology, without waiting for verification, is becoming a bane to our society.

A lot of kids come from open class corps, too. By that reasoning, we should merge the open class and world class forums.

Gotta love the off-season where something like this is found to be interesting enough to create debate within a DCI World Class Forum. All I am saying is that this is a one paragraph sound-bite article in which we have very little, if any, facts concerning an isolated, yes isolated, incident about a 'high school band director' vs a 'high school superintendent' not an incident concerning anything near a DCI World Class Drum Corps catastrophe. And even if some students do go on from this particular 'high school band' it is still not a national wave of OMG destruction of band programs around the nation; so it makes little sense to get all up in arms about this in the DCI WC Discussion Forum.

While the sound-bite story might be interesting, this is merely an incident concerning a high school band director vs. a politically correct micro-managing superintendent (and it is also a sound-bite story in which we do not know anywhere near the actual facts). As for it being in this particular Forum: Is the Ft. Walton Beach High School Band going to compete in DCI World Class? Is the decision by the Superintendent going to impact in any way how DCI World Class Corps Staff hold their auditions? Is this incident going to impact at all any high quality youth performer who chooses to audition for any DCI World Class Corps? Nope; Nope; and Nope.

based on a Facebook post where something was said about cutting costs/programs, maybe the new camp schedule is a good thing

Perhaps we'll see a puff of white smoke from the chimney at YEA headquarters soon, indicating stuff being done there.

Troopers announced on Feb. 11: Show: Magnificent 11 Rep: The Magnificent Seven The Theme "Jon Dunbar" from Dances With Wolves The Battle Hymn of the Republic Original compositions by Robert W. Smith and Paul Rennick Trailer:

Isn't this a self-portrait Hopkins did of himself recently to depict himself of how he dresses before composing an email?