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BD 2012 exuded excellence. There isn't a theme a corps has done that isn't pretentious and silly even if it happens to be your personal favorite. It's all just marching band that takes itself way too seriously. People in crowds who try to make their opinion known to people around them are even more pretentious and silly. Real weirdos. Your opinion isn't that special no matter how many fellow weirdos get onboard with you. Every finals I went to there have been people like that. Every adult rolls their eyes and tries to ignore them.

I could run up that hill now with my bionic knee.

If you went to a show with me and didn't know anything about me, you wouldn't know what corps I root for. I give every corps a standing ovation, regardless how I feel about the show, because I know how hard those kids work and I appreciate them giving up their summer to entertain idiots like me. Mandarins were in direct competition with Cadets and Phantom last year. I was going bonkers and cheering for those corps just as much as I did Mandarins.

Speaking of valves & fingerings, we had a HS director of a HBCU style band in our district that one of his tuba students asked about fingering a certain note. He told them, "don't worry about those valves; those are for the college kids. Just lip it". Not sure how true, but it made for a great story at our district meeting. 😂 Sidenote @Terri Schehr - Illinois will have their hands full with Moorehead State. We had a former student play there a few years back. Should be a 'barn-burner'. Edit: the Moorehead train derailed with about 5 minutes left. 😁

Hey, he was supporting the arts, in his own way.

I liked the show where they played Burt Bacharach songs. The Godfather one. Dance marathon. I have no idea what years those were. There was one show last year that I didn’t care for (I loved BDlast year so it wasn’t them) but I sat politely and watched because they were really good and I respect the members.

I cant speak for the rest of BD fans, but personally I had zero issues with people that didn't care for a specific BD show or BD as a whole. We all have different taste and we like what we like. Besides, how boring would it be if we all liked the same thing? Where I took exception, was the people that made false accusations about BD cheating, having judges on the payroll etc.

J. Birney Crum....she don't lie

Brother, if you think Lucas Oil is expensive, I double dare you to go to Levi's Stadium (49ers home stadium) and order a bottled water, and watch two men wearing all black show up and escort you to the basement under the stadium so they can harvest your organs to pay for that water. After going to tons of Niners games and dealing with those insane stadium prices, when we went to finals last summer and saw the Lucas Oil prices, my wife almost cried with how cheap they were.

You always make me think. Like, how do you know all these big words? 🙂. Ok, my actual point is that your words - ‘what’s the point’ - really ring true to me. I’m not sure the leaders in this activity really know what the point is. Is it to get the highest score come heck or high water so find the kids who can hit the high notes? Is it developing and educating? Is it pure love of the art? What is the point? Do whatever it takes to pay the bills for one more year and worry about next year later? Work together as a group of corps to drive costs down to ensure long term survival? Haha just kidding on that last one, that’s obviously not the point. But without a clearly articulated idea among these leaders about what they are trying to accomplish, something with more depth than “marching music’s major league” (cute but useless), I am pretty skeptical about the long term prospects of this little activity.

A guy next to me drank seven beers in Foxboro in 05. It was none of my business. I did do the math on how much it cost to drink seven crappy beers In that place. He’d ran up quite a tab.

me too. i was a huge BD fan

maybe i'm lucky.....i've never had interactions like that. well ok once.....DCA in Scranton. i walked to my seat for finals with 2 beers. guy next to me started to complain loudly about "an obnoxious drunk next to me.". then as 2 of my group showed up, i handed them their beers and shot the guy a look. Needless to say i heard not a peep, even when i eventually had a cold one myself. but seriously if you let stuff like that affect your ability to enjoy it, you need to find ways to block it out. i'm not trying to be Johnny sunshine....anyone that knows me knows i see way too much stupidity in the world around us. I just find ways to block it out. Plus now when i am at shows, i have an adorable almost 12 year old to explain stuff to!

I didn’t say anything about it except to Jim. It just wasn’t my bag. Of course, it was executed beautifully. I certainly wouldn’t laugh at it. I still remember the Madison crowd booing 91 Star. That was disgusting.

I've never been seduced by the notion of ubermensches filling the ranks for drum corps to aid in higher competitive rankings. By this I mean, only accepting the "best of the best" (again, who defines "best" and is the group that defines "the best" diverse? does it include women? does it include gender diverse peoples? people of the global majority? No? then I fundamentally can't agree to their definition of "best.") That's because I believe "best" stems from the hard emotional and intellectual labor of collaboration across difference and the unique kind of growth that comes with it. The turn away from this being an educational activity to an almost wholly-competitive one is lamentable. The very educational process that Terri described earlier has been so incredibly valuable and influential for so many people. It was for me. The two years I marched wouldn't have been possible if only ubermensches, or young people who require little-to-no training or education, had been allowed in SCV. I find the notion blah. Boring. Who cares? I was never that anyway. I was fallible but eager to learn, and I picked up the most difficult piece equipment in colorguard my second year, that I'd never spun before, and made it sing. If, as a former VMAPA CEO put it, this activity truly is "not for the faint of heart" also, then what's the point? Where is the learning? Where is the growth? And not just for those who are lesser-skilled... but those who stand to learn that working with those lesser-skilled folks is potentially more valuable than a "perfectly trained" set of recruits. Is the activity truly only for those who soared through high school band experiences as big fish in their tiny ponds? To oversimplify a bit, doesn't Cool Runnings ring a bell? LOL Ubermensches don't lead to growth in the activity... they exacerbate its already incestuous nature.

Interesting thanks. I was a trombone player who could read music but…. What’s a fingering? 🤔 My first year was a rush job as we reformed and started late. So I still had fingerings marked my second year. Of course the markings were 0, 1, 2 and X (both). 😆

I marched with people who couldn’t read a note of music as currently as 2003. When we’d get a change, the mellophones would gather around me and I’d play it for them three or four times. They were quick learners, though. I’m a slave to the page of music but they weren’t. I did teach one of my fellow members how to read though because I got tired of seeing fingerings all over the page. He could read after the season and proudly showed me his practically pristine music in 2004.

I loved that era so much. So many great shows with unique approaches and music that challenged me for the better. Through A Glass, Darkly, Cabaret Voltaire, and Constantly Risking Absurdity are still in my rotation to this day!

I’ve been going to Allentown since 1997 and I can say for sure Allentown recognizes and applaud’s excellence. It is probably the most drum corps savvy and seasoned crowd the Corps face all summer. Unlike Bando Crowds, there are no give-me’s in Allentown. 😊

I miss the OG BD fans from this forum. Plan9, 84BDSOP, BDCorno to name a few. We had to unite against the ABBD crowd during that 2008-2013 time frame. How we all didn't get banned is beyond me lol. We had some Ali vs Frazier bouts with the ABBD crowd. Hope they are all doing well.

Just an update on the recent march camp they had. After becoming a recent alum, contracted in 20, 22, and 23, I decided to drive to the camp site to see some old friends and see what the corps was doing. I was only able to make it to the end of camp but, luckily, I was able to listen to all of the music they had up to this moment. They only had 2 parts for the camp which went up to the ballad surprisingly which makes me suspect that the son lux residency will be the star of the back half of the production obviously. Part one is in your face and guns blazing with great energy due to temp AND technique! This book is already miles harder than 23 and I'm a little jealous I aged out in 23. The second part of part 1 gives me the feeling of Kinetic noise with its intense rhythmic challenges. Part 2, the ballad is just gorgeous. It reminded me as a brass player why I wanted to march this Line in the first place. Doug Throwers chord progressions and focus to writing as close to the source music as possible is just amazing. The lines tonal accuracy is phenomenal and dynamic shaping is just as strong. I am truly pleased to be on the other side of the field and once again be a fan of this organization and wish them all the best for this season!

If Bluecoats played Let it go, I’d have to fake my own death.

but i wasn't alone. I remember in 2010, more people than i ever remember leaving before the victory run. Sure, BD perfofmed great. But people didn't like the show. and you're pretty cool too!

Could be worse, you could have been a Kentucky fan. Or even worse, from Kentucky.

I'm currently completing training with SafeSport International. In regards to safeguarding, they drill down on how crucial it is to leverage the latest research and lived experiences of survivor athletes to build consensus about what safeguarding should look like. FWIW, I'd argue it's the same for equity. Bc again, there is crossover btw safeguarding and diversity... and diversity issues are covered in the SSI training. It would be much easier to listen to the experts, rather than try to reinvent the wheel. Bc getting consensus from the drum corps community on this subject without a process similar to what I describe above is laughable to me it seems so difficult. So again, kudos to Bloo for trying. Their members undoubtedly will benefit.

Lol just lip it. Sounds like the old days. The Illini are taking years off my life.

Then we have the issue of does DCIs goals match the corps goals. And how close do the individual corps goals match each other. Some corps goals, if realistic just might be “freaking survive until next year”. (Sounds familiar to me)

Hanovers horn instructor also played during the piston/rotor days. When I got my 3 valve I couldn’t resist. 😈 “hey Brian, ok valve 1 is right thumb (horizontal valve), valve 2 is left thumb (rotor)… what thumb is third valve” Got this “I can’t believe you said that” look. 😦

lul, sometimes I like books, reports, studies and articles more than people, admittedly. 🤓 So, there's DCI's strategic plan. And it states the mothership's goals pretty clearly. However, it's from 2017-2018 (and therefore, pre-pandemic) so it's out of date. But hey, coolio, there are timelines attached to their goals. that's crucial. Also, a yearly report made public would be helpful in describing how they think they did in meeting their goals. Perhaps that's out there somewhere but I couldn't easily find it. Is that what they do at Jannuals? That stuff should be more public if so. An example of a crucial goal would be the Mission Statement: "To bring the life-changing benefits and enjoyment of marching music performing arts to more people worldwide. We do this by creating a stage for participating organizations to engage in education, competition, entertainment and the promotion of individual growth." Education is listed as the first dang method for achieving their mission. That's probably intentional. Are their member participants aware of that? I'm not so sure anymore, given the adjustments to many of their own missions to eliminate education altogether. Concerning. Anyway, the strategic plan, mission, vision, and values statements are all present and accounted for. But there are key concerns there for me. Specifically, how are they holding themselves accountable for these statements and goals? It's like trying to follow a map but never looking up to see if you found water... or simply telling your traveling party you found water when you haven't... or having found it but not sharing it. It's shallow. If there are annual reports I'm missing, then by all means, I'll give them a read and respond. If this is the case with the mothership, that they aren't holding themselves accountable for goals, then all the little member boats will follow suit. Now we could dive into their "In Step" DEI programming, but that seems a bit embryonic as well, so I'm reluctant to go full hog on dissecting it. I want it to succeed, and have criticisms, but that's for a later time. It looks to me like my concerns are rooted further down in the clarity of their mission/vision/values.

you wwere in Scranton. if i was an issue with 2, that guy should have looked up 4 rows by the railing at the walkway, especially by the tunnel that led to the Stadium Club.

Intense is all I think about watching this vid. These boys got after it!

He'd need a second mortgage for the same 7 beers at Lucas Oil... A few years back, I was sitting beside a intoxicated alumnus of a top 3 "blue" corps & he just wanted to talk to me thru the corps' performances. I was nice, but I had to say, "dude'... 😂

Exactly. I preferred BD 2012 over BD 2014 which puts me in a minority I think, and I didn't care for much of anything they did between 2008-2011 or 2013 like a lot of people in this thread have said. It's just personal taste. Sentiments like "Tee-hee what the heck is DADA!?!?!?!? tee-hee-hee" being conflated with a lack of excellence by a corps? GTFO.

Amen Brother! Say it louder for the people in the back!

I just figured out valve one/rotor two. There was no three for me until 2000. I played French horn in band. He wasn’t a trombone player.

emerging from my cave to say how excited i am for bloo this year. was relistening to garden and riffs this morning and remembering how unbelievable this group has sounded the last few seasons, and how great im sure they'll sound this year. im not a betting person nor am i good with predictions, but i just have this really good feeling this year for bloo. an intense positive energy. in another note, one of the snares from last year's line is currently on staff for the indoor percussion ensemble here in my area, super cool dude, and super smart. the training at bloo is incredible and i hope i get the chance to march with them someday.

Heh. My dad was recruited to an AL corps the summer of 56 while in high school precisely because he was the only one in the battery that could read the sheet music.

I didn’t laugh but it was my least favorite BD show. I’ve liked them every year since 2014.

I saw the announcement for the San Diego/Rose Bowl change. I actually like what they are doing with two shows in one location. I am just getting more concerned that DCI has not said a peep about where the Houston show will actually take place. Are they having that much trouble finding a location for a historically strong show?

To go with jwillis35 when I read “corps don’t take in kids who can’t read music anymore”, my response is “corps take the most talented members. If they can fill the corps with people who can read music then no need to go further “.

you walk that hill for a bathroom break? you'd never make it back for whoever was next!

here's the thing, and i am sure this will rankle several: once we got away from the drills of 1960, visual has evolved and become more important in the total package. by the time Cadets zagged, scoring had to zig. fewer of the old school compulsory drill moves ( color pres, concert, exit line etc) were gone. the visual got more creative. Now in some cases, especially with props etc has it gone too far? IMO in some cases yes. but to be anything less than 50% of the score in where things are now isn't realistic.

Very true. First let me say I love what Bluecoats are doing. It's kind of getting back to what the original Bluecoats were formed for when they were operated by the Canton Police Boys Club. In regard to your comment I totally agree. Certainly over time drum corps was bound to change. I don't think the changes were done in some mean-spirited kind of way to exclude kids, minorities, and those who were less fortunate. It was more of an organic change that just happened due to many converging forces. Everything from rising costs, public school expansion in the Arts, more access to other types of activities, new laws on travel and insurance, and even the competitive direction and innovations of drum corps and band which required different skill sets that contributed to the costs and the exclusion of some from the activity. Competition itself can change a lot of things. You need kids with more music training and who have the physical abilities to perform the more demanding and innovative shows. That competitive push forces others to follow suit. Drum corps went from being local and regional to Marching Music's Major League on a global basis. The best of the best if you will. The performers and performances are fabulous but can only be done by corps with experienced musicians and physically-abled marchers. For many who do not have good local band programs -- or none at all, and who live in communities where these opportunities are limited or do not exist -- why would they bother auditioning for a corps that is looking for talented college kids? Consider that many of these shows are complicated and filled with music that requires the sensibilities and desire to learn complicated repertoire of this nature (Classical, Romantic, Contemporary, Jazz, New Age and on and on) that one gets from a good music education. It's nice to know that many of these organizations are taking a serious look at what their purpose should be. It's going to take money, but more local involvement in the community and more inclusion and diversity can only be seen as a positive for music/visual arts education and for drum corps.

It seems to be the opposite out here in California. When we get Midwest/East Coast corps come out here, we treat them like rock stars as we are so appreciative that they made the trip out west.

Okay are we changing the goal post? You started out by complaining about GE, but now it’s all music captions? And lord knows you are absolutely wrong if you think ALL music captions are being judged by people who don’t know #### about music. Don't come for me and say I “don’t understand”. I’m in the middle of it. I am an adjudicator who works with many of those who judge DCI. I know their backgrounds and what they bring to the table.

Kind of like DCP during the season. But with consequences.

Jim, you hit a nail on the head, old friend. The old building I worked in was pretty diverse, the new one is even more diverse, and I feel great about that. We're more multi-lingual than before, and I'm working with even more really nice folks. More people are getting a great opportunity to get pretty well-paying jobs now, and if they're nuts enough to go into supervision and management, even better. It might have been a low bar to hurdle, but my job is better in large part because of this. If I read a lot of the thoughtful posts here correctly, I'll try and slice this with Occam's Razor. The gist seems to be that the corps has identified that they have an issue they sincerely want to address. Admitting there's problems is always good. Denial in this activity has led to multiple disasters. The real problem is now, we have serious concepts we want to commit to getting better at and not just talk about it- but how can we effectively address this and do something concrete? My guess is this could be a long process of learning and evolution before they get to their eventual goals.

Given that they're the only corps doing the work, AFAIK, and they're only four years in, that's still new in the equity world. Most fail within that time period. It's called an initiative rather than a project or program for that reason, if I had to guess. Yes, this is why I proposed partnering with an org whose sole focus is equity work. Even if Bloo's D&I committee has experience with this type of work, they can only be so loud if they're butting up against the board, which they admit, is not as diverse as they'd hope. Also, I get the sense that the committee has plenty of crucial lived experience, but that's not the same as professional development and/or having successful projects under their belts. Again, "initiative," not "project" or "program" for this reason. I disagree but see your point. I don't see the first statement under the executive summary as a separate mission statement. It reads to me like a goal for the diversity and inclusion initiative, or possibly the D&I committee. What would've helped is clarifying this and directly stating the purpose of the report. Such as "The purpose of this report is...." and "The purpose of this initiative is..." The latter may be posted somewhere (or should be) on the website, but I couldn't find it easily. Even under the BOD tab, they have a short description of the D&I committee... and it is different than the aforementioned "goal" in the executive summary. They're fumbling a bit on the organizational synchrony. It's normal, again, this early into an equity initiative. They don't need a separate nonprofit with a separate mission. This initiative wholly serves the mission of the org. That said, their mission statement is just about as bland and unfocused as VMAPA's so they've fallen into the same mission creep problem as VMAPA and many many many other nonprofits out there. "We want to enrich the lives of young people through the performing arts." Okay, great. Which young lives? (ALL of them? That's mission creep... no NPO can accomplish that because the goal is too big.) Which performing arts? (ALL of them? That's also mission creep... focus on just a few of the arts like drum corps, music, and dance.) ...to list a few questions I have. Answering these questions in the mission/vision/values statements lends focus to all supporting programs and initiatives. AND TO POTENTIAL DONOR$... but remember, you're not serving donors, you're serving whoever you state in the mission. It should go something like this: Clear mission/vision/values statements >>> Clear D&I committee goals >>> Clear D&I initiative goals >>> clear D&I report goals Therefore, creep in the mission will lead to creep in subsequent portions of that chain. Again again, I'll chalk this up to the creep happening in the goal of the initiative and overall NPO mission/vision/values. (I'm using "goal" here instead of "mission" intentionally, because an initiative has goals and NPOs have missions.) Your first question is a good one for sure, but is unclear again because of the creep I described. To your second question, even if they don't have data yet from the other programs (very possible) it's a simple as saying so, and setting a goal to gather data from those programs as part of their goals/strategy moving forward. All excellent questions. Crucial, in fact, for the sustainability of the initiative. Without answering those internally and publicly, the initiative could easily crumble like so many others under the weight of external and internal criticism from those who don't value such work. This kind of work shouldn't need justification, but those calling for the business case for such initiatives need it... as they're usually tied to funding and internal support. Still, I much prefer the fairness case, which is all encompassing. I believe that's what Bloo is going for, intentionally or not. Not answering such questions internally and publicly could also make the initiative look like window dressing. Those are tough questions, but answering them could point the way to greater organizational synchrony... and, in turn, a more thorough embodiment of safe spaces for those members, staff, and board who need it most.

It was scheduled to be used in 2020... but it wasn't due to the Rona

any of the recent SCV years are great. they ste the standard to get away from the traditional lot video