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Somehow I stumbled my way into 3 Bronze stars while I was in Iraq. One of the times Steve Rondinaro interviewed me once I came back. I cannot find that video, however this was the video that led to having that video later. If you volunteer with Phantom Regiment I somehow trap people and make them watch this. I was so far removed from Drum Corps at the time, that I didn't realize that it was the drum corps guy who interviewed me until a year or 2 later when I saw something DCI then went back and saw this, I really wish I had the interview about Iraq.

It is like pulling teeth to get them to talk about their experiences. I didn’t even know my father had served in Korea until after he had passed away. I knew he’d been in (West) Germany but he never talked about Korea. I can only surmise that he saw a lot. God bless your Grandfather.

Drilling a bit deeper, I think you may find that spreads among captions are not equally applied. Differences in Effect categories are often miniscule, and the same seems true in Music. Percussion scores often feature the widest gaps between placements. As for Visual, I'd need to do a bit more analysis. Perhaps the perception that Music has diminished in importance springs from the fact that, though the actual point allocation does not show this, Color Guard may be the real driving force behind field shows today. Program designers are often visual experts who have made their bones in WGI where sound, though essential, is cut and pasted in service of the visual effects, which appear every few seconds in a 4 to 5-minute routine. Translated to the field, this results in truncated sound bites that support rapidly occurring visual ideas but leave no space for musical development, presenting the impression that the music is a secondary consideration. Which it is in fact, the relative point allocations among captions notwithstanding. And everybody sounds good. The music is much simpler (any really challenging segments usually presented at a halt), played on superior instruments in comfortable registers for brass, percussion avoiding most rudiments (which can not be jammed into the faster tempos anyway), and all of it supported by a (usually) over-modulated pit contribution. Ergo, the real decisions do have to be made on the visual side.

Ge has never been and never will be a what the fans want sheet. have you even seen recent versions of the sheet? the more you reply the more its apparent you feel effect is to match what you consider popular, and that isn't how GE has ever been. yes the activity has slowly moved away from music being the overhwelming focus because the activity has eveolved drastically visually. i'm sorry you want to compare scores from the days of color pre, squads, guideons etc to where the activity is today and your article is all abount IMO a false narrative trying to compare two things that are very different as if they're to be on the same level. they aren't drum corps today is very different from drum corps in 1972, and a large reason for that is how much the visual side of the game has changed. And quite frankly, elevator drill and matching pictures stopped being effective 40 years ago.

Sorry, but I am not hung up on "just 16 years ago"....I am not going to write a big thing, but in effect, especially those judges with visual/guard backgrounds, have given many questionable results over the years. I never stated that I think GE should simply be a "crowd o meter" of audience reaction........that said, if the judges are going to be oblivious to audience reaction and only respond to what they like as an individual, then they need to rename the caption, or it should not even be scored/utilized any more. The main just of my article (which has pretty much been left alone, because the numbers speak for themselves) is that in a 6 year time frame, the 30% scoring edge in music was whittled to zero. As I and others have pointed out, these things had to be voted on and approved by the directors. Do we have better shows as a result of these changes? Some will say yes, some will say no.......but the move away from musical emphasis is undeniable.

Not sure it would have been better received, but probably less talked about at the time. I also wouldn’t lump all of 08-13 into one basket, some were better received than others from what I experienced being around the corps a lot some of those seasons. But as they say, some things do get better with age. A few of those shows are looked at much more favorably now than they were then.

My vote would have been for Star of Indiana 93, but I can certainly see 1989 Phanton Regiment as the winner. The show was an absolute treat from day one. I saw them in mid June in Ohio and it was just so obvious they were going to contend if not win. Thanks for posting the tournament.

Dallas camp this past weekend, clips up on the social medias. CEO expressed much excitement about the quality education happening, especially with the Rennicks. Spring training will happen at the University of Idaho. The board of directors have heard snippets of show music from the Dallas camp and were also very excited. I didn't catch in the open meeting when or how the show would be revealed, but I think I just missed it. My bad.

Ditto here. Dad served (Army Corps of Engineers) in Korea during the war but only talked about when he was in Canada working on part of the Defense Early Warning (DEW line) system. Thank goodness for MASH as pieces started coming out while watching (Kimpo airfield was never that big when I was there).

that and from 08-13 the shows were generally unpopular

BD fatigue is probably top five biggest reasons for the hatred they receive. And it's not a BD thing, it's anyone who has figured out the championship formula to consistently stay on top. Society in general doesn't like dynasties...........unless it's the team/corps/player you root for lol. I remember after the 2006 season, and hearing some people groaning about the Cavies winning again and wanting to see a new winner. Now it was nowhere near BD level of hate, not even in the same realm, but some were talking.

the music chosen wasn't exactly stuff i'd choose to listen to, but it was presented in a more flowing way...like complete thoughts/passages than they had done since Godfather, and they did it in a way that got some old school BD vibe. but the whole building of the house led to a zillion Extreme Home makeover okes ( probably half by me) and it made everything look way too cluttered. and that Cadets that summer had Jeff's masterpiece visually and Crown channeled their inner ELP had shows more loved to the general populace. but i don't remember nearly as much dislike as for the 3 years prior and 2 after

I could never be mad at you my dear. I❤️ Ms. Terri…..don’t let Jim get jealous!😉

1966 was pretty wild (I was only 9 and not following, but this was legendary stuff) https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=1681203072683803&set=pcb.3827894180866047

That is a fact. 2011 is gets a lot of love on this forum over the last several years. But during that 2011 season.......wow, the hatred was real.

this

I’m dying to know what they’re playing. I haven’t heard a peep this year.

It’s been revealed during the April Phanathon in the recent past. Usually at the end of April.

Fellinieque is without doubt the best performed show I've ever seen. It's pretty darn entertaining too. It may not be my most favorite entertaining show but in terms of overall performance it is the BEST I've ever seen from a drum corps. From the wicked opening fanfare to the gorgeous ballad, the carnival-like music, to the grand closer the entire music book was a masterpiece by Wayne Downey in his final year arranging for the A corps. The percussion writing to Wayne's arrangements is just stellar. The visual program and the guard design...I mean it's all just brilliantly done and performed. With DCI continuing to move toward shortened seasons I am not sure we will ever see something this polished again.

Good analogy. This is very true of the top 12, top 15 corps. The music books are difficult. The visual programs are advanced. Recruiting is on a national level. Many of the top 12 corps are 75% or more college kids.

I was being snarky and more of a smart*** when I brought up Madison in 1999. Because the OP seems to be hung up on crowd response from 16 years ago. My apologies. Regarding your number/tile thing you posted, I hear you loud and clear. but here's the deal.......... We (In General) need to keep it real. We say we want chaos in the numbers/placements/scores. But when it happens, we lose our freaking minds and it's Armageddon in this forum. We have had some regionals over the last few seasons where numbers were all over the place, and we saw people flipping out and calling out judges for their favorite corps finishing let's say 3rd overall, but 8th in a particular caption/subcaption for an example. So basically, what we as fans are saying is............."Give us the scoring chaos with numbers and placements being topsy turvy................as long it doesn't happen to and/or affect the corps that I root for."

Is it too much to ask for 2024 to be the year that Bloo Brass is finally good enough to win the Ott?? Please, I'm literally begging. I've wanted to see them win high brass for years now. Their hornline is criminally underrated, and I know I'm not the first person to say that. While they haven't been the cleanest or most technically proficient on the field, they have had one of the most characteristically unique sounds in the activity for more than a decade at this point. That's what makes Bloo Brass so special, in my opinion. I recently came back to this video for the first time in a while, and my goodness it's getting me excited for 2024!

I assume their will be a day coming up when the show title , uniform/costume, music, etc. will be announced as in recent years. Anyone know when this year's program reveal will be?

We need to get back to Phantom before my buddy @Sutasaurus gets mad at me. 😂 One more thing, though. I found out my Dad served in Korea when they installed his gravestone. It said Korea on it. What a way to find out. My family didn’t communicate well.

Congrats G-Daddy! You’re awesome. Now back to the topic at hand.

exactly. the intellectual third of the triad is no longer dominating over the other 2/3's of the triad

Very well put.

Same. This made it all the more difficult for me to feel safe when I wanted to address issues that came up. Representation matters beyond checking off some imaginary box labeled "diversity."

Imagine, for a moment, that you are a kid auditioning for your favorite corps. You take look around as you stand in the horn arc, drumline or guard line and realize you’re the only kid of that ethnicity standing in that hornline; no one else there with whom to talk about your background, no one else who identifies with the struggles you’ve had to get to the point where you can actually AFFORD to march; hardly any instructors, staff members or caption heads who identify with your background. This isn’t exclusive to one demographic; in fact, this exists with many different people. THAT was what it was like for me. I truly believe those who are against diversity or who claim initiatives like DEI are “political” do not have a full understanding of the entire history of this country and why it is important for all of us to have representation in many different aspects of life. There are many historical events in this country that we HAVE to learn and other parts of this country's history that is put on the back burner. That needs to change if we are to truly have a better understanding of EVERYONE'S struggles, triumphs and successes. Kudos to corps like Bluecoats for delving deep into this and contributing to make drum corps a much better experience for EVERYONE.

Not off topic as Crown represents the single largest DCI source of current membership of the unit!

Thanks, cousin.🦖

no i wasn't. the dome left me very displeased with the sound, plus we had a baby in 2012, so hopping off to finals wasn't a way to keep family tensions in check. thought about it during teething tho LOL! however my take in 13 seeing them in Allentown was more people pulling for Crown and honestly just wanting someone new. and i'm 90 BD cool.

You are absolutely right. Thank you for pointing that out. Bump was amazing. The Bluecoats are amazing. They've had my favorite shows in 2019, 2022 and 2023. I just love them. I like modern drum corps for what it is, but I certainly miss the musicality and good drill.

Not its primary mission (travel the world, visit exotic places, meet people and kill them), but, as a side benefit, I received excellent education and training in the military. In fact it set me up for a lifetime career of keeping the neutrons inside the reactor.

here's the thing, and it may ruffle some feathers.... BITD scores still mattered. think the Warren Cavies, the Royal Airs and Kilties in the 60's didn't go all out to win? or Garfield, Blessed Sac, Boston, St Kevins? Sure they did. but the pool they recruited from was different then. As were the shows. Few in corps back then went on to be HS or college band directors. those entities and drum corps were in very different camps. But as time went on, and the two camps started getting closer together and personel crossed back and forth, the recruiting pool changed, and the number of corps shrank for all of the litany of reasons discussed/debated/argued about on here, with both fatcs, opinion, and rose colred bifocals. and surviving until next year has long been a thing in drum corps. like since day 2. So while these are all good points to bring up in relation to this topic, it's not like these two things are only more recent developments. They've been around forever.

but from those offerings, maybe some kids find their way to drum corps. Maybe not Bloo. maybe Soundsport or All Age. Maybe Open Class.

I gave you a like instead of laugh. Currently I can't laugh at any fanbase right now, as I am still in therapy because of my Niners Super Bowl loss last month. Looks like Kentucky fans will be joining me in next week's session.

I'm currently completing training with SafeSport International. In regards to safeguarding, they drill down on how crucial it is to leverage the latest research and lived experiences of survivor athletes to build consensus about what safeguarding should look like. FWIW, I'd argue it's the same for equity. Bc again, there is crossover btw safeguarding and diversity... and diversity issues are covered in the SSI training. It would be much easier to listen to the experts, rather than try to reinvent the wheel. Bc getting consensus from the drum corps community on this subject without a process similar to what I describe above is laughable to me it seems so difficult. So again, kudos to Bloo for trying. Their members undoubtedly will benefit.

You always make me think. Like, how do you know all these big words? 🙂. Ok, my actual point is that your words - ‘what’s the point’ - really ring true to me. I’m not sure the leaders in this activity really know what the point is. Is it to get the highest score come heck or high water so find the kids who can hit the high notes? Is it developing and educating? Is it pure love of the art? What is the point? Do whatever it takes to pay the bills for one more year and worry about next year later? Work together as a group of corps to drive costs down to ensure long term survival? Haha just kidding on that last one, that’s obviously not the point. But without a clearly articulated idea among these leaders about what they are trying to accomplish, something with more depth than “marching music’s major league” (cute but useless), I am pretty skeptical about the long term prospects of this little activity.

I've never been seduced by the notion of ubermensches filling the ranks for drum corps to aid in higher competitive rankings. By this I mean, only accepting the "best of the best" (again, who defines "best" and is the group that defines "the best" diverse? does it include women? does it include gender diverse peoples? people of the global majority? No? then I fundamentally can't agree to their definition of "best.") That's because I believe "best" stems from the hard emotional and intellectual labor of collaboration across difference and the unique kind of growth that comes with it. The turn away from this being an educational activity to an almost wholly-competitive one is lamentable. The very educational process that Terri described earlier has been so incredibly valuable and influential for so many people. It was for me. The two years I marched wouldn't have been possible if only ubermensches, or young people who require little-to-no training or education, had been allowed in SCV. I find the notion blah. Boring. Who cares? I was never that anyway. I was fallible but eager to learn, and I picked up the most difficult piece equipment in colorguard my second year, that I'd never spun before, and made it sing. If, as a former VMAPA CEO put it, this activity truly is "not for the faint of heart" also, then what's the point? Where is the learning? Where is the growth? And not just for those who are lesser-skilled... but those who stand to learn that working with those lesser-skilled folks is potentially more valuable than a "perfectly trained" set of recruits. Is the activity truly only for those who soared through high school band experiences as big fish in their tiny ponds? To oversimplify a bit, doesn't Cool Runnings ring a bell? LOL Ubermensches don't lead to growth in the activity... they exacerbate its already incestuous nature.

So separate and not equal? Seems kind of a backwards step. Anyhow, I just hope Bloo gets a better costume/uniform designer this year.

Agreed. I would go further. I am surprised no one (especially Bluecoats themselves) have not raised this observation. Compare the data they have gathered on their auditionees (1126 in-person, plus 217 virtual) with the 165 selected for membership. There are no demographic differences in who makes the cut. None. Not even socioeconomic status. This raises another thought. From reading this thread, it appears that we are all in consensus regarding inclusivity. We want to know that everyone is welcome to participate, and if we could, we would make sure everyone had the opportunity. But "inclusivity" (opportunities) is different from "inclusion" (outcomes). And the outcomes, as you point out, could reflect who are interested (or disinterested) in participating in the first place. Use of the term "inclusion" instead of "inclusivity", along with the use of terms like "underrepresented" and "underserved", create the implication that demographics of your organization should match those of the general population. Inherent in that is a grand uninvestigated presumption that people of all races, ethnicities, genders, identities, sexual orientations, socioeconomic statuses, and so on, have equal innate interest in doing what DCI drum corps do now. I would not make that assumption. Those last four words, though, might not pan out. It seems that modern drum corps non-profits interested in serving less affluent youth are doing that by developing separate program offerings that are not drum corps (and therefore, are not as inaccessibly expensive).

To go with jwillis35 when I read “corps don’t take in kids who can’t read music anymore”, my response is “corps take the most talented members. If they can fill the corps with people who can read music then no need to go further “.

DCI posted audio from 1971 today. They sounded pretty darn good on that old plumbing. I forgot that they played a snippet of Greensleeves before I ever did. https://fb.watch/qSRM0zEc7i/?

Sorry everyone! I inadvertently got in an area with no service but I’m here to announce our winner!! by a score 64-32… our 2024 March Madness Winner is…. 1989 Phantom Regiment! Thanks for playing along! Didn’t realize we had such dedicated participants or I would’ve made sure to have service at 5! 😂 Hope all enjoyed!

This classic