Leaderboard

Really, is that a serious question? DCA didn't let a group that has made it clear they refuse to follow the rules of the event they were signing up for compete, and your next logical step is that they ban alcohol and breathalyze people? I think you're taking it a little far. If CF really wanted to have a presence at DCA, there are ways they could go about doing that, including putting on a exhibition at another point during the weekend. There is nothing saying CF has to play at the mini-corps show specifically. If the idea was to bring fun and humor to the weekend festivities, there are plenty of ways to make that happen outside of the structure of the mini-corps event. However what seems more likely, is that a particular person was trying to use this as a "Look at Me, Look at Me!" moment, and trying to kick up some dust. If CF really wants to come to DCA, then I challenge them to find a venue and put something together. Whether it's in the lot after/before I&E, in a lounge at a hosting hotel, outside the gates of Prelims/Finals, at a local restaurant, or whatever. Organize a space, put something together, promote it to the crowd, and make it happen. It's completely within their abilities to make this a reality, and I'm sure there are lots of people that would like to see that happen and would attend. I personally would attend, have a few drinks and laughs and admit that I was wrong. However until that happens, I can only see this whole topic as one big attention seeking temper tantrum.

Except when they're playing their most difficult brass licks. *ba-da-bing!*

I give credit to BD for deciding to push the envelope, as they say. Just so long as they extend the courtesy to me to return to sender that envelope if I find that it lacks the neccessary postage, you know what I'm sayin' ?

No disagreement on the ensemble sound, but the criteria was "best fortissimo plus moment." I don't remember one moment like that. Loud, yes. Loud by drum corps legendary standards? Absolutely no.

Crown's Mahler pre-show in 2010. Absolutely tasty. Too bad they couldn't keep that quality going the whole show.

By calling what happened at FAMU "not hazing," you seem to be justifying hazing as long as it does not result in real physical damage or death. The problem with this argument is no one while hazing ever considers the real consequences. I'm sure no one wanted to kill that young man. That's the problem with hazing. It is ritualized. Ritual often takes people to an alternate reality where the rules do not apply. This is why what happened at FAMU was indeed hazing--hazing that resulted in an unintended consequence for sure but hazing nonetheless. That's why its so dangerous. Hazing often has unintended consequences. I strongly disagree with your argument. It says that hazing is ok as long as the results are controlled. Well, hazing has gotten out of control many times over history. The problem is not those specific incidences. The problem is hazing in general. Oh, and hazing is not rare at all at many traditionally black college marching bands. I heard some hellacious stories from a co-worker that played trumpet for Southern University in Baton Rouge. I know it can and does exist in other places, but it is exceptionally strong in the show bands.

One question: If DCP had existed in 1975 or 1985, how many people on here would have insisted that Corps X should never play the shows that everyone now says are the classic, ground-breaking shows. I think it is true that your favorite music is what you listened to in high school, and it seems to often be true here that people want Corps not to innovate, not to evolve. Their favorite corps music is what they first encountered in an audience or on a football field. There might be a hard corps group of people who would drive across the country to see G bugles and marching tympani, but there's always a group of people who push to return to the old days in any venue- sports, politics, civil rights, on and on. It's all over this website- look at the long thread where people want corps to march THE SAME EXACT SHOWS they had marched before. Ten years from now this show will be one that some people insist that BD emulate. And they won't. And that's why they are elite.

We've shared a few, been very nice to talk to, actually. Admittedly, I took a few years off, when he/she registered their account. That first time GT2 saw me posting, there were definitely some interesting exchanges (mostly because GT2 thought I was somehow trying to stir up stuff, when in reality we had both had our accounts for years, just hadn't posted siumultaneously). With all of the flame throwing, trolling, and setting some people up--- I've never gotten a hateful PM. Most people take me for what I am: A discussion instigator. As I was telling Hostrauser, my role on the forum is really to bring out the silliness of taking this place so seriously. I also, although some people can't see past the "over the topness", contribute some information and useful content to the forum. We march around in old quasi military uniforms, altered by gay men, to music that most people don't recognize, everyone thinks we are marcihng band, we pay to do it---it is hilarious we talk of ourselves with so much snobbery.

I mean, let's be realistic... If a corps is doing its job well, then it will be rewarded, regardless of what the judges sheets are tailored to. The scores could shift slightly in another corps favor, but I expect to see no drastic changes in terms of judging (placings however, is a different story).

For full disclosure, I must admit to have never witnessing a Crunchy Frog performance. From Lee’s pictures, it looks like a bunch of DC people dressed-up in crazy costumes having fun. What’s wrong with that? As long as the performers are having fun and the audience enjoys what they’re doing, what’s the harm?

How are we not talking about the end of Phantom 96 yet!?!?

Totally separate entities, both of which are awesome. As one of the greatest broadcasters of all time used to say "Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story".

They definitely have a lot of things going for them this year for sure. I'm excited to see where they go this year! Compared to the last couple years, this show sounds like a major step in the right direction.

And contrary to what Lee believes, it's an important distinction to make. When I first saw the header of the other thread, I initially made the Crunchy Frog/Renegades connection in my head. Why? Because it was only natural, given the 'publicity blitz' from when Crunchy Frog first appeared. I don't have any problem at all with Jeff's clarification. Quite the contrary, I thought he was pretty classy about it.

Love you right back, Garry! Contrary to a certain individuals beliefs, I personally have no problem with Crunchy Frog ... I was a member! The ONLY point that I've ever made is that the Renegades Association of California is not associated with either Crunchy Frog or it's proponents. Crunchy Frog is a separate organization. I wish Crunchy Frog, and it's participants, all the best ... and want them to have fun! That is all.

And to think you logged in just so you could minus someone's post. Someone needs a life.

Actually they wore the shako 8 years, from 90' through 97' but don't pull up pics Liz...I'll help you out. The Hurcs have indeed worn Shakos at various times...32 years total by my count! They have worn the Hurc/Gestapo hat, at various times in 43 seasons. Their first 5 years (32'-36') they wore the American Legion overseas/#### cutter hat. So, even though they're widley associated with the Cop style, they're not married to it. I applaud the switch to the shako...It seems like a perfect compliment to the contempory style uni. ...

Can someone please explain to me exactly what Blue Devils have done to SO completely revolutionize the activity that we are now comparing them to Apple?? Doing weird shows just doesn't fit that bill for me.

I get your point about innovation, but Apple Computer spends beaucoup bucks in bringing in customers and in customer surveys, customer meetings, etc and asking THEM what they want in the next generation of computer and telecommunication products... and they deliver on THAT with new technical innovative advancers for the electronics consumer. Apple Computer ( and all highly successful businesses ) don't make things for their OWN challenge, enjoyment and fulfillment. BD seems fully capable to me to be BOTH innovative and a huge crowd pleaser. We know this. Thats because they have done this plenty of times in the past.

Haters gonna hate.

In the 70's and 80's some fans were not fans of BD due to primarily jealousy reasons. It was rare back then however for BD to have such angst on the part of many national fans on their SHOWS. By and large, the national audiences loved the BD shows in the 70's and 80's.... each year they moved the envelope then too.Much of their music in the 70's and 80's was not all that familiar to most audiences either. Additionaly, one would be hard pressed to find a BD alum from ( say '74-76, ) not liking the shows of BD in the 80's. They might quibble on which Corps were better, but the BD alums were not as disapointed as many of the BD alums are today with the BD shows of late.... as well executed and performed as they have been. BD has never been a Corps that stood still. They always took risks. They played " Tommy " after playing some years of Jazz. Its not so much that most audiences don't like " change ", its that they want the change to be appealing. SOME fans don't want any change. Thats true. But on the whole they are small in number compared to those that are willing to be open to the new. Most fans will accept a change in style and show if it is appealing to them. But thats been the rub with BD of late it seems to me. They have the talent, staff, resources, and they place well because they execute and perform their show well. But thats a bit different than generating audience appeal with their progessive need to push the envelope. BD has almost always pushed the envelope. Its just that its been difficult for them to find the audience receptions to their recent shows of late that for years and years was almost a given that it would have mass appeal with national audiences.

Even though not a note has been played nor a step marched several of you seem to have already condemned the BD 2012 production. Based on what.... two words?

That has absolutely nothing to do with why BD is elite - they are elite because whatever the staff decides to do for a show is executed incredibly well year after year. And because that is the case, they continue to get very talented individuals to audition and staff willing to work with them, thus perpetuating the excellence. They certainly are not elite because people want them to emulate old shows and they won't.

I don't think in our red state/blue state country that a corps that hails from Fort Mill, South Carolina will don red clothing, refer to each other as comrade, have hammer and sickles on their flags, and do a tribute to Communism. Then again the Bridgemen hailed from the old established Yankee state of New Jersey and did their Civil War tribute where the South won the war, at least at the shows in Birmingham, Alabama, so I suppose you never know.

I, personally, chalk this up to a change in era. They are very different in your mind, but on a college campus and marching field (in 2012) they are considered the same thing, and 9/10 are punished as such. What you describe and what some of the other BD vets have described (it happened at most corps, not just BD), if happened today---would without a doubt end in legal litigation and/or firing of staff members who saw it. These times, they be a changin'.

His name is East?

My question is who would it hurt? If BD keeps going as they have, they may suffer.

At the Bushwackers the rule was no initiations of any type for new members. The word "rookie" was also banned, A new member of the corps was exactly that, A NEW member and was never to be called a "rookie". Plain and simple,We were all Bushwackers. Jay

But that's exactly the point some of us are trying to make here...why was it so important for them to go back and do BD? Why not express the corps in a way that features its skills and takes on a different design and different presentation. I completely understand if some DC fans don't enjoy or connect to what they offer...it's a matter of taste and (in some ways) a matter of musical and visual expectation. And I realize that Drum Corps by its very nature is structure, unison and big musical moments that can only be delivered in that environment and yes..... history! At its corps it's military and remembrance. But if you look at the last 5 years of DCI you'll have 95% of the corps doing what's expected...delivering the goods and satisfying that historic requirement. I have a relatively short history here so it's easier for me to say, let the corps explore without reprimand...let new designs express themselves and most importantly...celebrate different in a sea of same.

The OP's opening statement is "what are your favorite FF+ DCI brass sounds throughout the years?" It's asking for an opinion. I gave it, and please note I didn't argue with the quality of the Cavaliers' brass in 2002. I loved it. However, I argue that its fortissimo moments are not comparable to legendary volume. Crown's volume and quality, on the other hand, is piercing and lush. It can be felt as much as heard. It's just a cut above.

IMO, some people in this thread are seriously underestimating the number of woodwind players that march throughout the ranks of world class corps. And overestimating the talent of the brass players... reading this thread it sounds like all the brass players are lining up to join a symphony after they ageout and the poor woodwinds are struggling through "method book 1"

I wholeheartedly agree.... As a member of a competing Mini Corps, I almost felt they were making a mockery of the entire DCA thing, while everyone else was taking it very seriously. I have nothing against having fun, but I also feel that if Crunchy Frog wants to do it, do it after the actual competition, on the street. No offense...

hopefully it won't be a show about communism

@ bersurkman: I would consider it hazing when the "rookie/noob/pledge" is forced to do something against his/her will. When I was pledging KKPsi, I opted out of doing an event because I didn't feel comfortable with it, and it was totally understood and accepted. Therefore I didn't think of it as hazing because I had a clear out if it was going to make me uncomfortable. That experience itself cemented for me that I wanted to be a part of the organization. Traditions become hazing when they are forced upon the initiates or members and there is an atmosphere of compliance-or-else.

We enjoyed our "rituals" back in the day. Is there something wrong with a rookie talent show? How about our "rookie swim"? Once a year after a good rain, we would make the rookies lay down and splash in puddles while singing the corps song. Is that "hazing"? Where do you draw the line?

I'm confused. In all of my SCV corps, I was in front of the front hash a lot of the time. But we had a concept of "wall of tone" for those instances. Those of us in front played as loud as we could with good tone, while those behind us played as loud as possible. It was for the judges, obviously. ####, in 2000, we played as loud as we could during the company front of Angus Dei. The wall of tone didn't even apply there lol =P

I also wouldn't be surprised if they took it all. They have the percussion team (instruction and arranging), they have the brass team, they have the brass arranger, they have the guard design and instruction team.... the only area missing IMO is drill design. The fact that so many people think pete weber is such an incredible designer boggles my mind, but if he puts something together like his 09 design (visual matches the music, not overdone, practical, etc), I think all the pieces will be in place for them.

I am so excited to hear Crown this year! That brassline seems capable of playing almost anything, and they have surely picked a difficult few pieces (depending on what parts they play). I heard Crown was marching 90 brass this summer... Has anyone else heard this? I would be interested to know where they would add the extra members. Either way, I cannot wait to see them this summer!

Thanks for the input! If I get a stand that fits it well, I'll post information about it here.

"ARE WE HAVING FUN YET?" <$1 to Zippy the Tuned In Pinhead> A old Westshoremen thing usually yelled a few hours into a drill rehearsal from Hell....

WARNING! WARNING! WARNING! This information is NOT true. Who are you and what are your trying to pull here? Unless you are on staff, there is not way would have this information. Yes, there are some brass players that play woodwind instruments, but they all have extensive brass experience, college band and drum corps, and play extremely well. And, they beat out over 300 brass players for their spots. Vets are not guaranteed spots at SOA. Put on your karma cap buddy and hope for the best.

And to think that nobody's gotten on a bus yet, let alone put the uniform on, or played a note. Preseason Drum Corps is exciting.

The video annoys me, BUT I can't wait to see this show!!! I have wanted to hear Crown play Fanfare for the Common Man for a while now!!!

FYI for you Crunchy Frog fans: "Crunchy Frog" nor Lee Rudnicki is officially connected with, funded, supported, or endorsed by the Renegades Association of California, or any of its performing groups, including the Renegades Drum & Bugle Corps and the Jim Ott Brass Ensemble. That is all!

A little too ambitious for my fingers... ;) But, I guess that's what Smart Music and spring-training are for xD

The planets have finally aligned...Carolina Crown and Copland's Third Symphony. That hornline....that piece.....wow! I can't wait to hear their show this year!

Nope, all the tubas finally broke!

1. Blue Devils 2. The Cavaliers 3. Santa Clara Vanguard 4. Carolina Crown 5. Phantom Regiment 6. Blue Stars 7. Madison Scouts 8. The Cadets 9. Bluecoats 10. Boston Crusaders 11. Blue Knights 12. The Academy

I've subscribed since 2007? - I've never experienced any of the things you're talking about. I've always been able to connect, and rarely had any lag at all.

I have a Kanstul Contra-Grande (G) that was bought new in 2007 with hard case for sale. The horn is still in new condition. I paid over 8K. This is not the usual beater that you see for sale. This horn is a work of art. I played this horn for 4 seasons starting with the 2007 Kingsmen Alumni Corps in 2007, S.F. Renegades in 2008, Anahiem Kingsmen Sr Corps in 2009 and S.F. Renegades in 2010. I am asking 5K. Local pickup advised. Would also consider trade for concert 5/4 BBb tuba of equal value. Pictures on request. Contact me at clbsjdean@verizon.net or on my cell 562-413-6069 .