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And it's nothing personal to the original poster, as I do know him, but really this is exactly what's wrong with DCI at this point. Here's someone who has marched a top 12 corps but wants to be a part of the elite groups that are out there. The mentality has become if its not them, I don't wanna do it. That's what's killing our activity. People aren't excited to just be spending a summer doing the activity. Finals or bust. Ring or bust.

:p Twas the night before thanksgiving, and all through my house, not a creature was on DCP. The end ;) Oh wait, here I am

I hate the way DCI is being defined by the top 3 corps every year.... There are tons of drum corps doing great things every single year. This discution started with someone saying that Hopkins did great things for DCI..... I wholeheartedly dissagre. When you talk about the great drum corps show of the past 7 years what made them great? The moments people get goosebumps from every year do not come from stupid sound bites or having a narrator read you a story. The drum corps moments that people remember are when a Corps playes great music perfectly. You were talking about how people will lose interest... Do you think cadets showes in 06, 07, 08 were things people would enjoy? Do you think if I showed that to people who had never scene drum corps befor they would want to go to a show? I think people would rather come watch DCI if corps focus there showes on playing music well. SCV, PR, Crown, Bluecoats. I am not saying that anyone making DCI finals does not play music well. but I see too many showes designed to make it story time. Let music speak for itself. If you are the person who needs to have people talking and telling you what happens the whole time than you dont get what this activity is about. Hopkins has not made the activity better..... there are fewer and fewer differences between DCI and BOA..... This is not supposed to be high school band part 2. In my opinion DCI neds to reward the showes that are focused on great players playing great music. Not how abstract and "artistic" the showes are. When the corps that comes out on top is playing a show that people who have never scene DCI befor enjoy aaannnddd the people who have been around it for years also enjoy then DCI will grow. Pushing the envelope is not the problem..... some corps are pushing it the wrong direction.

For everyone who posted in this topic, or anyone who cares: I have decided to audition for a World Class Corps and march my age out! Look for me on the field this summer!

From Ric Oberlin at DCI: Thanks to Mr. Oberlin for clarifying this. He gave permission to quote the email. So, this supports the contention that this is not so much a matter of the time it takes to get sync rights, it is a matter of informing DCI early enough. At least in this instance.

I think you are right. I come here daily to read and the e - mail was interesting... that's for sure! I am glad I was able to read it before it was pulled. Drum and Bugle Corps ... it has really become... draining. That sucks! Gonna have to do some digging after today to find out what is really going on, been kinda out of the loop for a bit but I think that this should be moved from here to the masses... which can be done very quickly IMO. I don't know much yet. I do know that, THE MADISON SCOUTS, THE BOSTON CRUSADERS, THE BLUE STARS, THE TROOPERS, THE BLUE KNIGHTS, THE ACADEMY, THE OREGON CRUSADERS, THE SPIRIT of ATLANTA, JERSEY SURF, THE CROSSMEN, PACIFIC CREST, THE COLTS, THE MANDARINS, CASCADES, PIONEER, 7TH REGIMENT, THE SPARTANS, RAIDERS, GENISIS, MUSIC CITY, THE BLUE SAINTS and from what I am seeing THE GLASSMEN, the list can go on and on, other open class Corps, DCA, SDCA, ect. ect. ect... are all going to be coming to a city for our enjoyment in 2013. Get out g7... Pull the trigger... Talk is cheap... . Should be interesting to see what the masses have to say this weekend...g7!

I rooked out in 2010. I had the option of auditioning for a top level group - but decided to go with an Open class group. Not only did we medal (bronze), I was a soloist, and was the only open class corps member to receive the Friends of DCI scholarship that year. I do not regret my decision one bit.

what do you think would be more important in 5 years... that you made finals or that you marched? Whether or not you perform Saturday night doesn't change the other months of hard work and experiences.

Depends how it went down, one thing if they were not invited another thing if they refused My feeling about the 8th spot, it felt like the G7 throwing out a fake bone to the’ lesser corps’, it seemed disingenuous …I figured they wanted to keep the door open for Madison It was interesting watching some of the Blue Stars’ fans dance the past few years...we love the g7, opps

For Boston Crusaders, that's an understatement and from a fan's point of view, I'm glad it's the case.

In 1978, Phantom performed excerpts from Stravinsky ballets and I recall a Drum Corps News review of DCI East where the writer thought that the end of drum corps was near. I've been reading DCP posts (though only commenting for about the past year) where the end of drum corps has been predicted. It didn't happen in 1978 and it hasn't happened yet. For most of us, there are peak and valley years, and more often than not personal taste is the deciding factor. We also have our own glory years. For me, some of the years mentioned by the original poster as great are not what I would consider the banner years. I'm less likely to see them as innovative or forward moving. Yet others sing the praises of these years, all a matter of taste. I can also say there has never been a year where I have not seen at least one show I've loved, and even if I haven't loved a show, seeing high school and college age students performing at such a high level is impressive on its own. However, what I do disagree with the OP is the critique of current years, particularly 2011 and 2012. I believe in the last two seasons we have seen shows that are challenging, audience friendly, and innovative. The last time I believe we saw similar quality shows by nearly every corps (based on the standards of that time) would have been the years between 1987-89. The comments made regarding the unnamed winner, BD and "Cabaret Voltaire," it's not a sign of things to come. Only BD could pull off such a show, anyone who tries to duplicate it will be seen as copycats. Chances are even BD will not be able to repeat it. It was a one time only deal like Star's "Medea" and PR's "Spartacus." It was hardly my favorite show, especially since I wanted last year to be Crown's year, but it was nearly flawless, and even if you didn't appreciate the show itself, it can't be denied the "Hula Hoops" were great. The OP also seems to be lamenting the influence of bands on drum corps. I still think it is the other way around. My guess is that more band directors were watching what happened at DCI for show ideas than DCI directors watching what the bands at BOA were doing. They may have been there to recruit, but not copy shows. Also, we don't have feeder corps anymore. It used to be a corps formed someone into a musician or color guard member. Now the experienced musician or performer joins a a corps and is formed into a Boston Crusader, Bluecoat, or Madison Scout. It's been this way for about 25 years so it's not new. I'm an old schooler at heart, I wish there were more corps of all abilities, corps with more distinct personalities, etc., but I appreciate what we have today, because in a few years, today will be old school.

This is fairly ridiculous. T Man, how old are you? I ask because your statements come off as uninformed, uneducated, and incredibly bias to me. 2012 BD = crap drill ... Whoa, you are clueless. The transitions are flawless. You watch that show and tell me your eye doesn't follow where the musical interest occurs. It's so good, that it happens effortlessly. Yes, it was abstract, but that was the intent of the show. The personal taste you present of influential shows are all simple easy concepts. Thats good and all, but thats gets boring too. I am not a huge fan of BD's dark and strange concepts the past few years… but the construction and design is at of the highest level… championship level. These shows seem up your alley… all strong products. Crown - Rach Star Cadets - Angels and Demons Bluecoats - Metropolis Bluecoats - Criminal Madison - 9/11 show

I was concerned I would be entering the Thanksgiving holiday with the burden of having something for which to be thankful when your gift of Debbie Downer depression fell from the sky like manna from heaven. Now I'm going to have to re-read my liner notes for all those years to try to figure out how I somehow pulled a Seinfeld by writing glowingly about nothing. (Must have been hopped up on the after-effects of stadium popcorn fumes.) As for 2012, learning that Satie's "Gymnopedies" has no melody and Crown visually looked like the after-effects of my intestinal disgorge has given me something to be thankful for on Thanksgiving, which is the realization that I mercifully was not blessed with the same worldview that enlightens your take on the activity. Only a masochist would return to be inundated with even more ennui after getting absolutely nothing out of drum corps for five years in a row. I guess I've got to admire your fortitude. 'Tis the season to be jolly officially starts in several hours. I hope you're not expecting Santa to fill your stocking with coal, because I think he's more environmentally conscious now and has replaced that good old standby with carbon offset credits. No matter how bleak things look, I would never slit my wrists, so I think I'll do the next best thing and eat a bucket of worms. Cheers!

So it's got to be pushing the envelope, different, new & exciting, etc, etc or it will die? If that's todays mindset then "we have met the enemy and they are us". Here's pushing the envelope... how about quit trying to impress us that you (the corps) can do something different and just try to entertain the public with the show. disclaimer: Know that sounds olde pharte-ish but I don't go to shows to be impressed by what the performers can do. I go to forget my troubles for a while and just enjoy myself. And if that's greedy.... too bad :rolleyes:/>

I haven't been around Drum Corps for very long, T man, but one thing I've learned from watching high school marching band is that a group's show concept isn't always the deciding factor in winning. I've seen many bands perform a simple show with simple music and drill get very high scores because their performance was at a much higher level of execution than their competition. BD won because the judges felt their performance was just a little bit better than Crown's. And, considering the scores given to each of those Corps, the judges seem to disagree with your contention that BD is not a good Corps. Now, you are certainly entitled to your opinion about a particular Corps or a particular show. Myself, I liked BD's show last summer more than Crown's. I also liked BK's show more than Crown's...though I'll be the first to say they didn't perform to the level of any of the top 5 Corps. Heck, I found Jersey Surf's show to be much more fun to watch than Crown's show. But hey, that's just me. Your opinions obviously differ. So it goes. I find your gloom and doom predictions about the demise of Drum Corps to be short-sighted and premature. I think that as long as there are dedicated educators out there and eager students, that Drum Corps will continue for a very long time.

When one part of a group leaves another part of a group, whether for financial, emotional or ideological reasons, there is a sense of inevitable forward momentum. I bet the VFW and CYO didn't think DCI would make it on their own. For better or worse, G7 is more concerned with fighting over the leftover pie than baking more pie. While certain groups may not necessarily NEED to change the current model, there is pride involved... whether warranted or not. Human beings do not always make decisions based on what's good for the whole. It is neither short-sighted or prescient. It is merely to satisfy the overwhelming money-eating machine we have created, rather than addressing the root of the problem... that we are not, in fact, a large, well-financed entertainment industry, but merely have some very good wordsmiths that take educational language, motivational techniques, fund-raising and non-profit knowledge to serve rather narrow needs. One always hopes for the best, but holding a rather small activity hostage to a set of values that not all ascribe to doesn't bode well. I don't have inside information, but I share the general sense of disappointment in the "me first" attitude in what could be a vibrant youth activity that becomes more and more about the adults. That's a shame. The world gets a little colder each time someone decides they are more important than someone else. Is that really the lesson drum corps was supposed to teach? Really? That's all I'm going to say about this, but it was on my mind. sincerely, Chuck Naffier Lifelong Drum Corps Fan/Participant

Thank you for the advice Tim. The way I am looking at this, is since the YMCA is starting a music program year round (which I am running) this will be good experience for me. I am considering World Class, but I will march anywhere. The person who is attempting to take over the music program for me is one of my best friends, so I am getting him all set up. He will help maintain consistency for the children, which is something that I think is key for my program to succeed. At camp, I wish I could take a personal day to go to Allentown, but if I don't march, I can't hurt the kids like that. In my 5 summers at this camp, I have only taken 1 sick/personal day, and people get concerned when I am not there

Gold will be there, they will probably be at Niles and Michigan City again like this past season.

I can't wait for this up-coming drum corps season. The Madison Scouts should and will bring the house down. Wow, it's amazing 75 years of exsistence! On this Thanksgiving day, i'm thankful for the Madison Scouts.

For All who were in the Plymouth Parade or those who missed it. Videos of the parade are now on the PACTV website. Here is a direct link to the parade videos. http://www.pactv.org/thanksgiving-parade They split it into three parts. Part two is where the actual parade coverage starts with Cabs Alumni doing the opening ceremonies. Enjoy!

My oldest son Kevin started his drum corps "career" just short of his 14th birthday as a contra bass (back before tubas - believe me - the things Crossmen were playing on back then were definitely contra basses)in 1991. He played with Bones for 3 great seasons - the Metheny year, then the two first Songs for the Planet Earth shows. Sometimes I forget that I was on Crossmen's brass staff that 1991 season it all runs together so much and it's so long ago. Last night, way the #### out here in the DFW area in Texas I took my 18 year old daughter (who wasn't born yet when Kevin left Crossmen) to her first Crossmen camp. It was late at night after listening to her sing with the Women's Chorus at the University of North Texas in Denton and then sitting in truly horrific traffic Texas style. When I lived out here in the early 70s (in the military) you were more likely to run into cattle than more cars - now it's like the Long Island Expressway all the way from Southeast Dallas to Northwest Fort Worth. As we searched for an entrance (that was open) to the Forney HS where camp was located I looked in through a window only to see the drum major count off the beginning of "Russian Christmas Music" for the brass line. It was already chilly so I'm not sure how much was Texas wind and how much was goosebumps, but within a few measures I was transported to the sideline of Birmingham Alabama Stadium in 1978 watching Crossmen finish up their show at a Regional, with my Bridgemen cassette judges tapes in hand. They say that everything that goes around comes around, but here it is almost an entire generation since Kevin went to his first camp in the Philadelphia area - 21 years ago in fact - and here's my youngest auditioning for the pit. Like the old SNL Baseball skit - "Drum Corps been very very good to me" and to my kids. Go Crossmen - the pride of (what the hell am I doing out here in) Texas!

Wrong is wrong, Mr. Boo had also sent the correction. At 3am, they both sound awfully close hahahah! Thank you, though. Hope everyone got the point though.....

If Michael Boo and Jim Svejda were commentators of DCI, I believe you would have interest in the activity rise over one summer. Great stuff! hahaha! :laughing: :laughing:

Well, I guess that finally proves that I know nothing about drum corps, unless you meant it wasn't very good because it was spectacularly excellent. I wonder if my joy spasms during the corps' finale in Indy last year might have just been due to gas. "It's an okay painting, Leonardo; but get rid of that stupid smile."

In my post, I stated, made an observation and asked a question. Perhaps the questions should have been why? Are you organizing a reunion? Are you sending information to historical web sites? Are you developing a website? Are you adding information to FB? Do you like DCP? We stayed with families of General Butler Vagabonds. Thank you! I had friends with Etobicoke Crusaders. Thank you! We competed with Opti-Knights. Love you! Belvederes had a reunion DCP thread here a while ago. Thank you! (btw the DCP upgrade made the search engine limited) Grenadiers? Thank you too! I may have already posted my one Cambria Cadets photo on some old corps photos? Please slow down Keith. It takes time to savour our wonderful drum corps years :) I like posting old photos! Someday, somewhere I may have an opinion on something? Excuse me but got bigger fish to fry, gotta go. edit: bottom line; let's stop competing and start collaborating!!!

Are you auditioning on bass or on trumpet, which you've previously marched and made finals doing?

Wow, this thread moves so fast I can't keep up. I've heard this before, about the revenue sharing being the primary way the top corps get more 'winnings'. This brings up an important point; it is perfectly appropriate for the higher placing corps to get more winnings. It's the whole concept of winnings, really. I think this same battle happens in all sports in which many teams come to each event. Some money gets divided equally, so even the lowest unit gets a fair chunk, because the costs are high at the low end too. But, the rest of the money is steeply distributed to favor the winners. That's appropriate. This system gives some balance to the winnings, nobody is excluded but the winners get a bigger pie. It sounds like nobody outside of DCI is really sure of the difference given to the winners. If it's true that the money was too equally divided, then the top corps would be right to complain. If they want to split off, they can do that too. But DCI shouldn't be helping them to split off; that's my beef. Does anyone have a chart of total appearance fees and revenue sharing totals for a recent season? Or is this also a secret...

I'm with you on everything that you said except for the comment about Summer Nationals at Whitewater (I was a member of a band that competed there every summer and did quite well too). What exactly was wrong with the product there? I'm sure Marian Catholic, Live Oak, Norwin, Sylva Webster, etc. would all disagree with you...

honestly...I'm sure Madison is out for two reasons: one, at the time this all started, Madison was just starting to rebrand/rebuild after a few years of...well...mixed results. two....I think they knew Madison would say no. The kicker that really surprises me is Cavies. I mean ok, Adolph runs the corps, but the Old Man is still alive, and full of #### and vinegar, and DCi was partially his baby.I can't imagine he'd let the Cavies walk out on DCI. Face it, until about 1985, The Cavies needed DCI far more than DCi needed the Cavies

honestly....I'm not going to a G7/TOC whatever they call themselves show out of principle. I refuse to give my hard earned dollars so they can break off and do their own ego trip. I'm one of those guys that goes to DCA prelims and sits through every corps ( the review is over there). I go to Allentown and sit through every corps ( the review is in the forums). I'm a fan of DCI, and DCA. Not just any one corps. I have to be honest, the rudest fans I see year and year are in Allentown, that march their maroon way into the stadium just as their corps takes the field, won't shut up while they're on, and then gold their ##### out of the stands as soon as their corps is done.

What does it mean for you to be pro G-7? Are you merely saying that you generally like the corps that perform the best? In which case --and as you say, without being fanatical-- are you more pro-Boston now than pro-Cavaliers? Were you more pro-Glassmen than pro-Crown and pro-Bluecoats ten years ago? Or do you mean that you support the actions of the G-7 collective, regardless of whether, over time, that collective turns out not to include the best corps? Early in the last decade, would such concessions to the then-top corps have led to Glassmen and Boston maintaining their positions and Bluecoats and Crown not being able to crack the top 7?

What??? L.D. Bell, Avon, Marcus, Carmel, Broken Arrow, Union, Owasso, etc. Constrained compared to DCI? Exist to fire up sports fans? What sports exactly? You know we're not talk about the Marching Bands of America Summer Nationals in Whitewater right? Yet another wonderfully informed opinion of the 'band world' found on DCP.

It seems time to add a new tab to the forums. Keep the World Class, Open Class, Reviews, Historical, but I think it's time to add one. Maybe 20 years late, but shouldn't there be a "I Hate Drum Corps" area. I mean, the end was near when they went to 2 and 3 valve bugles. Star was the anti-Christ, with George Hopkins their step-son. Bb's were the end. Electronics. Bigger corps. I mean, why not have a place that all the people that hate DCI can just go and sound off about how this activity is changed. Shoot, there's probably enough people since the inception of this type of activity back 70-80 years. I think theres more than enough topics, and certainly enough "fans" to keep it functional. Mod's, be we close this, just consider it. I think you have several thousand followers that would really feel better.

I was thinking we should have a forum for people who just want to complain about what's on the other forums.

I would think nearly all of them would run that way. That was my assumption. A class, and an after school drill practice. Really depends on when the football field is being used by the football team. But the band exists to support the school, support the team, and generally fire up the sports fans with school spirit. Any competitive creativity has to be compromised by that. Few if any marching bands really exist to compete or have real creative freedom. They are bound by high school politics or college politics, which are intense forces stifling creativity in all education, let alone a marching band trying to do Juliet ("Teen suicide!"), This Is My Rifle ("Guns! Mental Illness!"), or Christmas ("Christmas!") or anything else that doesn't project exactly the image the school board needs to project in order to get re-elected. Actually, I think the numbers work against this argument. My description doesn't have to fit them all, it just has to fit most of them. Each marching member can only choose the band in their particular school, so it doesn't really matter whether there is a creative and free band somewhere else. But they get to choose their drum corps. And what choices! But it was an irrelevant and misleading argument. Of course MB has 'taken the place' of the extinct local drum corps activity; they're extinct! It's a tautology. But more importantly, it's a straw man argument, because this discussion has absolutely nothing to do with the extinct local drum corps activity. Nobody was promoting those corps compared to the G7. The comparison was between the G7 and the non-G7 DCI corps of today. Indeed, his implication was that the non-G7 are basically similar to the defunct local drum corps of the 70s and 80s, and so they are no longer needed. He didn't actually say this, but that's the only interpretation that makes sense. Would Madison beat the best in DCUK? Yeah, I think so. But DCUK is doing well. Why? How can the activity survive in the UK with much smaller and less impressive drum corps? Is it because people are fans of the activity itself, and will cheer The Kidsgrove Scouts narrowly passing The Company at finals with the same enthusiasm we cheer for BD and Cadets. They have the same alternate entertainments as we do, so why, oh why don't they abandon their "irrelevant" and "under-performing" drum corps? Because they're neither irrelevant nor under-performing. They're awesome.

Please support BAC, Madison and other corps who don't buy into this elitist crap. Boston didn't support this and that is why they were not invited. It's hard enough to crack into the top seven as it is, going to be almost impossible when the odds are stacked againt you! My corps will never die, corps we love. GIANTS!

WE WILL NEVER DIE!!

LOL hit the +1 instead of reply..... Just wanted to say that the activity may be shaped by the most successful corps but if #4 thru whatever are being ignored then there is a real problem. And olde phartish being a PR phan..... Maybe an olde Phillies Phan... nah!

And I thought I got all the red negatives. This is one of the worst initial posts I believe I have ever read. I have absolutely no idea what T man is talking about??? I have seen some incredible shows in the last several years in DCI. Does this mean that I like every show I've seen? No. Does this mean that I think BD should have won all the years they recently have? No. But, I have seen some wonderful stuff put on the field, and I have seen some corps really put their members to the limit to put out good products. Do I think there need to be changes in how DCI and some corps run the fiancial aspects of their organizations? Yes, but T man's statement seems exaggerated to the point of obsurdity. I have strong opinions myself about the trajectory of the activity is going, especially when it comes to the staff of various corps taking too many risks with their creative ideas and the members literally paying for having to perform sub-par shows on the field. Right now, I am thinking of the Cavies show this past summer, and I know some people think the Cavies show was really good, although such an opinion does not seem to be the consensus. I think members and alumi should have more say over shows their corps perform, because the members especially are the ones paying the money to perform, but I cannot in anyway agree with this initial post. The activity is too complex to make such blanket statements.

Thank you. And you aren't the only one.

Of the day? :cool:/>

I remember when I had my first beer.

If "fast" didn't matter, I don't think Chopin's Joplin's Rags would ever be any fun to listen to... If "loud" was not an important dynamic, I have a feeling Tchaikovsky would have second thoughts about 90% of all his endings, but especially Francesca Da Rimini (22:49) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDhk4orHrSk If "dissonance" didn't exist in music, not only would you feel bored with nothing but consonance, but you'd never get amazing pieces like Bernard Herrmann's well known Score to Psycho! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYPu4zWLWzs EDIT--Thank you Michael Boo, I meant Joplin, not Chopin, which I wrote out of the excitement of the moment. Corrected!

Spartacus ;-) But seriously, what a terribly depressing thing to discuss... Personally I would like to respectfully disagree, with the disclaimer that I have only been aware of the activity since 2008 and actively involved since 2010, so to me all of these shows are great! I also don't know anything about the politics and inner workings of DCI, but (whether in spite of this, or because of it) I have not once lost interest in auditioning. I don't know if my lack of participation in BOA has anything to do with it either, but just my $.02.....

I wish the G7 would understand that if I'm going to give them $50+ to go to the only local show within 200 miles I would love to see some other corps like Madison, Colts, or Jersey Surf. Not just the 7 playground bullies.

Enterprising Young Men yowza

Mike, Do you know if DCI has any plans to provide updates on this situation via their website? They are certainly quick on the draw on adding sponsor ads, announcing ticket availability, etc., but unless you actually follow the discussions here or go to Fan Network and see what is/isn't available on a seemingly daily basis, the general fan base has NO IDEA of WTH is going on. The ads for the DVDs and Blu Rays make NO MENTION of the fact that the actual content you receive may be significantly different from what was presented on the field. Not quite on the up and up, IMO...

Well, it's not like Madison hasn't taken classical pieces and jazzed them up before. Pictures this year, Hall of the Mountain King in '98. Colas Breugnon in '83. I think it's a pretty good call, especially with Robert Smith doing the arranging.

Wow! I think this is the earliest a Corps has announced its show for the following season. I'm very intrigued and excited about this show. Part of the title seems odd to me though "75 years of survival". I wonder if that will play into the theme somehow.

In my opinion, I think your YMCA gig is too dependent on you and, while you're preparing your chops for tryouts, you should find a person whom you can train to run the program while you're gone. I suspect you'd want the Y program to continue if you got hit by a truck, and I'll be the Y would, too. If you want the benefits of what you're doing to live after you it's time to find a protoge. What you'll gain in drum corps is different from what you gain running a Y-program, but what you learn in drum corps you'll apply to the Y program to make it better, and you'll likely have the time of your life doing it. The Y will still be there after you age out. Even if the Y program ends up not as "successful" as it would have had you been there, the tradeoff of growing and learning is worth it, IMO. I suspect that if you took your situation to the Y leaders they'd help you find someone that you can train between now and next summer. It's only 3 months - it'll be there when you get back. If you take the time now to find and train someone to fill in.