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RBarron10- I thank you for your contribution to what can be a valuable dialogue. It's a dialogue we've had several times before, but hopefully we learn something new each time. Most likely, 8 out of 10 posts that follow will attack your opinion, and possibly even your person. I won't. I don't think you came back here to destroy the activity. I think you came here to help it flourish. I also want acknowledge Brad T for doing the same, and those who follow. This activity is not big enough to suggest you, or anyone with similar views, get lost. It needs to find a way to keep you onboard. To my eyes, there has been great change in this unusual product. But, more importantly, I accept that I HAVE CHANGED, TOO! I've adjusted my relationship with it, and so can you. Having seen 1000, or more, drum corps shows in person over the years, I give you the advice I now give others of my vintage. Simply this, the corps will change on their schedule. Change the way YOU witness what they do. I think you'll find, today's shows are BETTER THAN EVER for where you (and I) are in our present requirements, and wherein we find value. Give the activity a different look. For me, DCI corps have become so complex, so multi-layered, so detailed, etc., I no longer enjoy it as I once did from a single seat in the grandstand, at a single viewing. I'd miss too much in person. I can't take-in enough anymore in that setting. I have discovered Pay-Per-View now works far better. I realize now, without the aid of multi-camera views, close-ups, personal sound control, and an outstanding seating location for whatever the corps are doing, I'm bored, too. I make no apologies for that. Neither should anyone else. Far too much of today's supurb productions are missed, by ME, taking it in live. I can't imagine anyone sitting 'low on the twenty' seeing and hearing what I do now. Obviously, very many people still attend live, and at great expense. It's their turn. I had mine. Life goes on. The corps and shows today are simply amazing. Once skeptical of where we've gone, now I can see that special attraction is still alive. There is incredible talent presented here in an imaginative way that exceeds what I once thought possible. What a joy to rediscover drum corps can still work for me. A good example is the recent Blue Devils show. I spoke with several knowledgeable people who saw them live and hated their show. It made no sense to them, and evidently not many of the rest of the audience either. I'm here to tell you, that show would NOT translate adequately live, especially with a single viewing opportunity. But, it's a fantastic poduction when presented in a DIFFERENT package! I watch it over and over, and with pleasure. All the other corps have much to like, too. I should shout out to the Cavaliers who never cease to satisfy me. To sum it up, RBaron10 . . . hang in there. Give it another look, a different look. Never forget, YOU have changed, too! Can't wait for the coming season!

Anytime I see a person complain about "modern art" being over their heads, the only thing I can think is "....well that explains who's buying all those paintings of clowns and kittens at local art fairs."

You're right. That is sad. You know what would be sadder? For those artists who actually have something to say and an interest in pushing themselves to try something new to stop doing what they're doing, because, after all, the kitten and clown patrons out there will never appreciate the work. Working toward the lowest common denominator because a big chunk of the potential audience has no interest in being challenged never leads to anything worth knowing. One of the whole points of reading, watching, or looking and listening to the work of creative artists IS to have your preconceptions changed and your tastes challenged. What would be better would be for those who don't care for something to ask themselves WHY they don't like it - and do so from the standpoint that it's perfectly OK to come to the conclusion that you didn't like something not because it was strange, but because the artist in question failed to do the thing that he or they were trying to do. I think that's the real problem in drum corps now, from an artistic standpoint. It's not the shows are too artsy, it' s that with too many cases, they're failing to deliver the goods.

I know I can't be the only one getting annoyed by these "I'm leaving drum corps forever" threads. Is anyone expected to care? Just move on quietly and save us all the time and effort.

Tell you the truth, I can't remember ANYONE ever booing the Troopers! Sure, you are welcome!

Wow I asked a simple question and get called almost every name in the book for it. I said I was not excited about the upcoming season. I asked “Does anyone else feel this way and if so why?” Here is what I found surprising. I’m not trolling … I’m asking a question about the upcoming season. I’m stating I’m not excited and was bored with many of last year’s offerings. But I was thrown under the bus and ran over repeatedly. Don’t worry I have thick skin J. Some members really gave me some good insight about some of the things currently happening with corps I didn’t know. Thank you for being supportive of my question and statement about not being excited and needing more than one viewing to connect/understand a show. The DCP members that bashed me for my post, I checked to see their status on DCP and surprisingly I found many of them to be Veteran members with numerous postings. My gosh are you the Nancy Grace’s of DCP where your opinion the only ones that count? Some of you bashed me for starting a topic you thought had been beaten like a dead horse. Do you bash those that start topics talking about Placements for 2014? We’ve not even seen a show in 2014 yet. I didn’t want to bring electronics into this discuss nor instrumentation … I really don’t’ care either way about what type of horns the corps play, but if you want to know I think drum corps lost it’s edge (corps used to have a bright sound now they don’t) when it went to B Flat horns. Lastly, it seems like many of you don’t have lives and live on here. One poster was asking why I had not posted yet to defend myself. Well I just got around to checking my post. I am sorry but I am a rather busy man with my own National Championship Drill Team and I’ve been busy. Hind sight - maybe it’s not the corps I’m bored with at all … maybe it’s the snotty attitude some people have towards drum corps. Some of you posters sure do fit the label of, “Take it or leave it”, or “Its change baby so adapt” and “Out with the Dinosaurs, we don’t need you!” It’s a free world, so troll on.

Oh, that does happen too. As a band director, you had better not create a show that requires the cast of "Ben Hur" to move on and off the field if all you have available is the cast of "Gravity".

I know; he's more of a hater apologist (and a troll apologist, apparently).

When pondering this features real first name, we might be reminded of the first name of the gent who developed the theory of relativity.

Mellodude isn't a DCI apologist. He is actually the exact opposite of his sig... See no "good". Hear no "good". Speak no "good".

Nice insider stuff Ray. Sunrisers had Uncle Nick and their "Wail Juice" and Skyliners had this gent and their "Soup". God bless both these men.

It generally isn't a huge issue, and I don't have a problem with people expressing their opinions. But this year's griping seems to have been taken to a whole new level. Maybe I'm just suffering from "alumniof fatigue" and am overly sensitive to people starting a topic to gripe about every last negative thought that popped into their head.

Why does it do that? How are things in your black and white world? Maybe, just maybe, not everyone who says something positive about DCI is an apologist. Maybe they genuinely enjoy what DCI is and has to offer. It's a shame that the shows no longer entertain the OP, but I'm not 100% sure what his aim was posting it out here in a separate thread instead of one of the myriad others saying about the same thing.

many times a circuit is only as good as the last score they gave you.

And then you can pretend all is well in the kingdom. If the threads annoy you, you could perhaps not read them.

Nope. Not going to put anyone's name on here publicly so people outside my brotherhood can criticize them. If you were a Scout alum, that would be a different story, but not taking that route, sorry.

The Skyliners are very excited to be marching in the second largest St. Patrick's Parade in the country this Saturday. We are marching in the Scranton St. Patrick's Day parade. The parade kicks off at 11:45. It will be televised locally on Channel 22, WYOU in Scranton. We are in Division 5. After the parade, we will post video and pictures of the day. Thanks for all your support and kind words so far. Next step - to the FIELD! Larry

If I'm right, how fitting this close to St. Patricks Day. Andy, am I on the right track? Correction: OK, I think I have the right train, but it's on the wrong track. Nanci, the current feature would more likely be a Braveheart than an Irishman, so let's do away with the St. Patty's thing. Calling a Scotsman an Irishman could get one in deep cabbage.

As a reminder, these aren't "perfect" scores but "maximum" scores. And what would be the point of disallowing judges from awarding the maximum possible score? All it would really do is make the maximum score minus one tenth the new maximum.

SCV tried the live narrator thing a couple of years back with their John Henry show. Meant that every performance was a little bit different, and they had to adjust as the show went on if the timing changed. Very risky concept, as there's so much that can go wrong in a show.

Chattyt. You miss read what I said. I said I was not excited and yes the shows bored me. Sure some of the had a few moments but last year no corps with the exception of SCV and Madison on some level made me want to see that again. I like for a corps to do something that makes me want to see more. I left San Antonio last year not really wowEd by anyone. I have been to shows before and would run home and find the next show and off I go. I was not completely bored as you said I was I was just not excited and generally bored if that helps

IDK, I still think when you play the follow game, you start to lose the traits that make you unique and great in the first place. With respect to the Cadets, do what you do best, great drill, move well, play great, don't water down the difficulty and create that unique, crisp visual kaleidoscopic product you know how to do. Let the other guys roll around on the field. If they have those fundamentals in place, then I don't care about stages and narration, but the latter are never going to take a mediocre show and make it great. I remember when watching Cadets in the past and the audience would laugh because what they were doing was so difficult, in such a different league, it was super human. Just bring back the maroon, gold and white summer gods!

leave Stu out of this

I need to repost my original post to this. DCI is NOT ignoring customers or dissenting opinions of their shows. People can be disgruntled as much as they want... but I see the corps and DCI changing their tune over the past few years to accommodate them. A lot of the shows we see would not have been happening if there wasn't a dissent from the fan base. DCI would not be having a press release saying that they are changing the way they are judging GE to accommodate the audience if this kind of dissent wasn't getting further than DCP. There is an obvious and tangible movement in DCI and its members corps that addresses the complaints that people have had. (You cannot deny that...) And for what? These people can complain (more power to them they have gained in influence in the direction of DCI) but their complaints need to be satiable and right now they AREN'T. Frankly, what's more annoying than a complainer is one that cannot be satisfied by any reasonable and realistic means. And that's what I think we are seeing here. Those that are expecting DCI to pull a rabbit of their ### with a show that compares to something they enjoyed and loved during the 80's (a memory which has gone many years through the rose colored filter of nostalgia of course). Frankly, they aren't being fair to themselves who have possibly changed more in 30 years than DCI has. If people want DCI shows to "change" they need to at the very least make it seem that changes would "actually" satisfy their angst with modern corps... and I think for many people the idea that a show will be created that will actually make them stop complaining is an impossibility. That liking a modern corps show, no matter what it is, does the past they loved a disservice. Ask yourself FlamMan if you EVER see yourself actually, physically, viscerally enjoying ANY modern corps performance as much as you did in the past. If the answer is no is that DCI's problem or yours?

It isn't an issue of not allowing different opinions on DCI shows. It's about insatiable complainers.

Really? Four years ago, our leading corps proposed we "fool around" with how $100,000s of DCI payments to corps are allocated, based on the unquantifiable assertion that their corps are somehow more responsible for drawing fans and their money into DCI in the first place. We actually had to debate that insanity (and still are). So apparently, we are long past ruling out ideas because they might have some tiny effect on the relative amounts of DCI revenue different corps receive. Any corps who believes that premise ought to have no problem with putting their money where their mouth is (which might explain why those corps seem more interested in incorporating a fan vote somehow).

And you don't want to be accused of "badgering" him, do you?

Okay......here's a guess...Is his name Albert Campbell?

Still in the process of putting this together. I am leaning towards the history intro with clips from earlier shows, and then going towards the present, taking everyone's show suggestions into account. I want to get as many newcomers as possible, but I'm also contacting the local middle and high schools' band directors to let them know our library will be doing this so hopefully they'll send their students. It was going to be scheduled for our county's spring break next week, but I've decided to hold off until the beginning of summer break and hopefully incorporate it into our Summer Reading Program. For those that are interested, this will take place at the public library in Springfield, Tennessee,. Thanks again for the comments and suggestions! It is truly appreciated!

being open minded to change is good...if you want to make it a popularity contest thats fine ( wont ever happeen but ok ) then change all the rules and the activity. dont expect it to stay the same...and dont assume the best corps will win, thats for sure. Also how can you say ANY amount wont change outcomes...even if it were a few tenths...tell that to anyone...12th place could be out....1st down to 3rd..all on a whim and the fan fav. of the night..insanity IMO.......feedback is one thing outcomes are another...have a vote for fav of the night at a regional...fine no problem..outcomes NEVER..people can text it in and find out at the end of the night..............I think I would maybe also put the result on the DCI website not announce it that night....why take away from the kid who actually won.

Are you replying to me? Your inability to quote in your replies is a bit confusing. If you are, your broad generalization of one (me?) as a "DCI apologist" is pretty goofy. Call me brash, call me mean, call me trolling a troll, or whatever. But NOTHING you quoted in the post before this that you apparently can't reply with speaks to apologizing for DCI. Maybe you're a Troll Apologist?

Two Crossmen charts that immediately jump out - Baroque Samba (1990) and Heat of the Day (2002, but the early season version, pre-hosing). Mike

Oh, I surely agree that he has had more exposure to dc than most kids, by far. But every kid in the DCI target recruiting market has a person that can guide them as well - their band director. And I think they are the key touch-points for DCI in thinking about this MiM/G7 thing. Imagine, DCI/BOA have a circuit where DCI provides corps talent to the show. The band directors at those shows interact with the corps staffs and come to realize that those O-corps people have their crap together and can provide a very high quality experience for their marching students. When the kid comes to the director and states his intention to try out for a "dream" corps, that director can reflect on his experience with those staffs at BOA and help convince the kid that he's not sacrificing at all to consider auditioning with an O corps. The DCI/BOA connection could be the best marketing to put a "Dad" figure in front of the kid and emphasize the quality of the O corps based on the interaction at the BOA show. Exactly, I suspect, as the MiM/G7 envision it. Again, admission on the part of the O's that the G's might have hit on a, potentially, great idea in forming the union with MiM is the first step in preventing "congressional deadlock" in the DCI boardroom. If imitation is the greatest form of flattery, I suspect that the G's would be honored that the rest of DCI admits that the G's have come up with a great idea. Frankly, I love the idea, hope the G's are wildly successful, and also hope the O's aren't so full of themselves that they dismiss it out of hand just because its genesis was the G-corps.

I notice that the OP is nowhere to be found. Was he scared away because he lacks conviction or because was intimidated by the responses? Possibly, just possibly, he's a troll. We don't like trolls here any more than we like weak spines and opinions. Was it possible that he'd have stayed around if the responses were more favorable to his opinion? Seems unlikely. But maybe the OP didn't understand the nature of a public opinion forum board. Hey, OP! Any further comments or were just having a bad day?

Here's what I see: someone posts they don't like the product for any of a number of reasons. And what do we get in reply? A discussion of why someone likes the product? No. We get ad hominem attacks. That says a lot about who really is the childish person.

except DCI posted one of their best years ever. while on field product has left me waning in recent years, I haven't had enough to walk away all together...but I've walked away a lot, and well, they dont seem to be hurting without me

no. i left out the .75% that could give a ####

Why do they need to be the same show? Why does the best performed show have to be the most audience-friendly every year? Think about VK. Exciting, entertaining, and fun as all heck, but not clean enough to win. I doubt though that anyone cared about them not winning, either in the corps or in the stands. They weren't the best out there, but they were the ones that made the lists of classic shows over the winner that year. There are enough shows out there that everyone can pick their favorite and the one they think is the best.

Actually, it's interesting to hear from people and why they are giving up on the new marching bands. I know my sig pretty much covers what some people here do every day 24/7 with 10k posts demeaning every thread OP like this one. Feedback is important whether you agree with it or not or whether you think they are intelligent or not. Even as a snob, you can only dismiss lost revenue for so long

I thought last year was a great year. I loved Crown and they won, BD was not as offensive as usual, Cadets had one of their top music books of all time, Bluecoats had a great show and that's just the top 5. Bottom few WC corps were better than ever!

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That's the reality of modern art. You mention the degrees. Remember the average age of a DCI performer is around 20. The overwhelming majority of these performers are music education, music performance, or some other type of visual/performing art major. The product being put out is worked and refined by staff members who come with long lists of credentials; BMEs are almost a necessity to staff a line. The nature of the staff and students in a World Class drum corps puts them on a similar level as a collegiate marching band. The exception being that a college marching band doesn't usually meet until August and often only rehearses 2-3 hours a day anywhere from 3-5 days a week. This aspect of a more "educated" staff and student base leads itself to drum corps as an art form becoming more of a high brow art form. Something you would expect to find performed at a museum of modern art. I for one, hate modern art. I could throw paint at a board, glue garbage to it, and call it art by assigning random meanings to everything. That's what I get out of today's drum corps. The show no longer is about entertaining the casual audience member. Few corps even play recognizable music anymore. Today it is practically considered kitsch to play a recognizable piece of music from the history of drum corps, and unheard of to play anything performed/written within the past 5 or so years, unless it was written by an obscure artist. So many corps spend good money to commission original works loosely based on themes of classical music. There is a far greater focus on emoting to the audience. Music is about telling a story, sure, but good musicians can tell the story beginning to end through their music. Today's corps tell part of a story, but rely on the audience to fill in the gaps and missing parts. When I see a Top 12 corps (with few exceptions), I'm reminded of my former instrument professor before I dropped out of music school. He always asked me "What is the piece trying to describe? Tell me the story." I'm not a story teller, which is why I didn't make the cut in music school, and why I find modern drum corps so very boring. I am not the only person that feels this way! I think back to 2010 Madison Scouts. The audience at the show I saw them at were on their feet cheering within the first 30 seconds of the show. Few people actually stood and cheered any other corps that night, mostly because there was no connection with the audience. A typical drum corps audience is parents, friends, family, alumni, potential recruits, and fans of all ages. The people with no musical background, such as parents, friends, and family, have no clue about deeper meaning, and simply just cheer when something the like is done on the field. A blasting company front playing a recognizable tune is far more effective in gathering attention and interest than a 3-D pyramid drill done during an extended pit and battery feature. The 3-D pyramid gathers half hearted applause from the parents, while the only folks left foaming over such a drill are drill writers, modern drum corps fans/recent alumni, and avant garde aficionados. Part of my dislike for modern drum corps is based in my personal music upbringing. I attended a small high school with a not very good band in the early 2000s. None of the other schools we played against had a competitive band. Most schools did band festivals (no trophies or awards at all, just play the show), or had to share stadiums with multiple high schools and therefore couldn't go to festivals since many football games were played on a Saturday afternoon or evening. None of the schools had pit equipment, or expansive color guards, and few even had drum majors. Most bands were conducted by their director, and featured a dance line or twirlers. Our drill was often symmetrical, and we always played shows with recognizable music: Classical hits, Latin, Broadway, Rock, Americana, etc. A lot of our influence was based on the drum corps of the 1980s. Our director wrote the drill and put the music together; we didn't have an arranging and drill staff like many competitive high schools. We didn't have the talent to have featured soloists very often, so everyone just played. It was fun, and the audience enjoyed the shows. So for me, a good entertaining show features recognizable music, loud moments, screaming soloists, and everyone just engaging the audience. That is far from the case for me with modern corps.

Just keep it moving FORWARD, Larry!

Our current photo subject.... He was the topic of a conversation we had last Friday at Bahrs Landing, a seafood restaurant near Sandy Hook, NJ... the northern part of the Jersey Shore. We were up there visiting family, went out to dinner... and ran into a Skyliners alumnus who lives in the area and who spends some time at that restaurant. In fact, we've seen this man every time we've been to that restaurant!! This alum showed us a painting he had donated to the restaurant... a painting of a ship, given to him by our current photo subject... donated to the seafood place after our subject had passed away. Our photo subject had made the last trans-Atlantic crossing on that ship, as a member of the crew. OK... I know there are probably no clues in all that, but I thought it was a nice story.

The Graniteers had a very decent little corps in the mid-to-late 1960s. Probably their best season was 1968, when they finished second in the circuit championships. There was quite a lot of dissatisfaction among the ranks over their inability to defeat the all-girl Norwood Debonnaires that year. This may have contributed to the loss of members mentioned above by Ajlisko. The Debs were quite a good corps, and finishing behind them should really not have been regarded as a failure by any means. I do remember running into one of the Graniteer's drummers at the VFW Nationals in Philadelphia in 1969 who, during our conversation, mentioned losing to the Debs as a source of frustration for the Graniteers. He was one of the members who'd left after the 1968 season, and traveled many a mile to march with the Casper Troopers in 1969. It was a source of great amusement for him when the Troopers buses pulled into the assembly area for the start of the big parade, and found themselves much admired by the members of the nearby Norwood Debonnaires. The looks on their faces when they recognized him in the Troopers drumline was something he found very gratifying.

There are many great bands from Madison actually, school, amateur, and professional. Which one are you referring to? The Madison Scouts Drum and Bugle Corps are actually very good as well.

"assume the worst" as in this directly competes with Sound Sport? Why would that be "the worst"? Competition between circuits is a good thing at the very least it's an indication that demand for such ensembles is growing.

Some shows I would highly recommend showing, 92 Velvet Knights 2000 Cavaliers(although any Cavies show 2000-06 would probably work great) 2013 SCV or 89 SCV Madison 88 or 97 Cadets 93 Blue Devils 94 If you can put together some clips of the greatest moments would be cool too. Les Etoiles spinning drums, Bridgemen blindfolds, 27th guard spinning rifles, Troopers sunburst, Jersey Surf Taking the penalty, Cavaliers Diamond cutter, SCV changing pants in the tunnel, SCV Broom trick in 86, Blue Devils pit in 2000, Scouts guard fight on the spinning drum set 97, Cadets fingering horns next to them in 2000, and maybe include some fan moments, like the Vanguard yell, or Bloooing.

Give us a report back on how it went and which shows you ended up using.

SCV '89 (Phantom of the Opera) Crown '11 (Already has been said, but a great suggestion) Madison '75 Cadets '11 Crossmen '98 (but I'm a little biased)