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Pretty cool. When I marched I brought an abacus and some papyrus scrolls.

"If said competitor's shoe should ring during any authorized competition once the show coordinator has finished his aerobic upper body signaling of the the chief judge to begin adjudication, the chief judge shall immediately determine if the Clause 52 solution applies before signing off on the penalty astutely noted by the T&P judge on his score sheet or nodding to the field execution percussion judge to acknowledge appropriately in his possible taped comments and scoring. Clause 52 recognizes that corps using on field and front ensemble electronics are vulnerable to terroristic jamming, interference, artificially inserted sounds, bird calls, and buzzing when their electronic system has been hacked by intruders, competing corps, vengeful football players who want their stadium, or other nerdy technocrats experimenting with computer abilities. Clause 52 specifies that immediately the chief judge will convoke a subcommittee of noted percussion experts (usually seated in the lowest first rows of the venue,) show sponsors and a pre-assigned member of the DCI BOD alternating by geographic section (East, Midwest, South, West, California, and International.) The committee will caucus at the nearest refreshment stand to ponder possibilities and discern whether the competition should continue. In the event that a competing corps or lobbying corps supplier should be found guilty of such hacking, the culprit will forfeit their contest bond, lose said prize money, and be relegated to Box 1 showers for the remainder of the tour. Should it be a lobbying corps supplier (e.g. Dinkles being hacked by Viper,) said lobbyist will be assessed the tour food bill for the entire corps of that hacked corps or at least free samples for all percussionists in all front ensembles of the activity. If said intrusion occurs from other sources, the appropriate government offices shall be notified for prosecution. Further clarifications by the chief judge may be had by using his hotline phone to the Math department of Logan School District at the base of Mt. Diablo. Given this day in Indianapolis, Indiana." (minutes from Rules Congress #101, session 15 and noted in the Rulebook, Volume XVII, page 84, paragraph 3 which every good DCPer possesses.)

Though I appreciate your support for 10 and 11, I feel like it's a big mistake to say that 13 and 14 weren't huge years for the corps and big steps forward. 2014 especially...sure the concept wasn't "cutting edge," but it saw a traditional Troopers show done in a way that was very up-to-date. Its set them up for what they want to do next.

Troopers can ride Colts for their Wild Horses show.

We're excited about this weekend - he's confident that he'll get an offer, but I guess we'll see for sure within the next couple weeks.

That is what he said....that is what Brasso said.

Moving up the ranks has nothing to do with quality? I hereby nominate that post for DCP post of the year. nb: (and despite the edit, that's in context folks -- yes he really said that)

I was referring to MikeD.

Oh, the irony of a drum corps banning electronics ... from its members

Agreed, and they should have finished ahead of the Colts (IMO).

My assessment as well. " Wild Horses couldn't drag me away " ( lyric line from a Rolling Stones song, of similar title ) from what the Troopers represent and contribute to the activity.

Thanks for the link. I'd thought that article was gone to the ether. And, while not a newspaper, let's not forget the CBS Evening news story just this past August on Brandon the snare in BD. That there was some pretty great pub for the activity, if not so controversial. (What was REALLY weird about that was describing the cosmic shift that night it aired. I was sitting in Lucas Oil, watching the CBS Evening News on the Jumbo-tron do a story about a kid who was to be on the field live in just a few minutes. KaBoom. Mind blown.)

2010

I think the Dead Sea Scrolls were largely works from Old Testament times and, as such, did not include the Gospels of Matthew, Mike, Luke and John.

The Hawthorne Caballeros fresh off a very highly successful 2014 season, have reloaded for the 2015 season at a great Open House weekend. All sections were overflowing with returning and potential members who got right down to work on their 2015 program. The very large horn line had the opening number and the ballad learned […] ... Read the rest of the article here - http://www.drumcorpsplanet.com/2014/12/2015-hawthorne-caballeros-open-house-success/

"... contribute nothing to the activity" Wow. Really? There isn't a corps in that activity that fit's this description. At least not from my foxhole, anyway.

There's a screening in Sturtevant, Wisconsin (Racine-Kenosha area/SE Wisconsin) on Jan. 8 -- only if enough tickets are reserved by Dec. 29 (we have 51 to go as of this writing!). Here are the details: When: 7:30 p.m. Thursday, Jan. 8 Where: 10411 Washington Ave., Sturtevant (Marcus Renaissance) How to reserve tickets: http://gathr.us/screening/9765 Your credit card will not be charged unless we reach the minimum ticket reservations by Dec. 29 (there's more info about how this works on the Gathr site). No tickets will be sold at the box office (all must be reserved online through Gathr). Cost: $11 total, including a service charge Facebook event page: https://www.facebook.com/events/759059487481670/

Oh I'm dealing with it just fine. I did not watch one single DCI video once DCI went band wacky with trombones and concert instruments. This year I did not watch one single DCA corps that was electronically enhanced in the pit. NOT ONE! Big boy pants on and secure thank you very much.

Kudos to Bob J. and Surf for loaning their vehicles and equipment to Madison for the Macy's Parade and practices. Like Spirit's fraternity with the Crossmen, Madison's JK oil painting to Cavaliers, Cavaliers' birthday cake for the Cadets, etc., etc., such efforts are what make our activity special and memorable. Have a great new season. (Love the filigree on the didgeridoo. Is this a new Yamaha, Stanbury, or FJM line of product???)

We won the Viewer's Choice Award!!! Approximately $3,300 worth of heads, sticks, mallets, and equipment!!!

On the Cavaliers FB 2015 audition page the staff posted sheet music for "Vienna Philharmonic Fanfare" It also says 2015 Cavaliers soooo...

meanwhile our OP still ponders his decision while the posters pontificate away... Are they being too cavalier in their styles or too regimented in their opinions?

Actually he's pretty close to the truth. Almost all (if not all) of the original drill was changed during spring training. They had MASSIVE re-writes then. It was certainly almost 100% changed by Finals.

Don't agree.

As an biased observer, I will note this. Over the course of 40 years that I have been in the activity, generally PR members stay to themselves. I remember when I marched in 79 several members at a show being told by the staff to stick together and not to talk with members from other corps. As I have observed them through the years I see the same thing. Also, one other thing that occurred to me. PR seems to traditionally have an awful lot of rewrites during the season. Generally, the Cavies do not. In fact the one year PR did not have a lot of rewrites (2008) they did pretty well.

When was the last time they had one of those? 2008? LOL ... but then again, you can say the same for Phantom

frankv, this is the best advice you will receive. I would recommend doing so at each corps' home site. You should be able to get a strong sense of where you will best fit by doing so, particularly if you use the opportunity to talk to current MMs, many of whom were in your situation a year ago and through hard work produced an unexpected and rewarding field result. It appears as though these brass auditions are only a week apart in early December. You've indicated an interest in auditioning on either baritone or euphonium. It might be interesting to know that after using 20 baritones and no euphoniums in 2003, for the past few years ((2004-2012) the Regiment has not utilized baritones in their brass lines. I do not know why but will defer to their musical judgements on this matter. I do not have the data necessary to tell you the comparisons for 2013-2014. And 2015 may prove to be another year in which baritones make sense for the Regiment's musical presentation. On this and other auditioning matters, I would also encourage you to participate in the on-going dialogues scheduled on the Regiment's website ( regiment.org ) during which everyone is invited to ask any question they want and during which immediate responses are given. I think this exchange might be very useful. A couple of pro-Cavalier posters have emphasized some purported domination of the Cavaliers over Phantom for the past 15 years ( really 2000-2014 ). Bless their hearts. They have finished higher than the Regiment in 12 of those years thanks to some wonderful programs and execution in the years from 2000-2006. But for purposes of your question, so what? If that is the standard they wish to use, you should choose not to audition with the Cavaliers but with BD, the Cadets, Crown or SCV, all of whom have consistently scored higher than the Cavaliers in recent years. Having said that, I think it is important for you to know that the Cavaliers and the Regiment have a long and deep relationship forged over the last 59 years and a mutual respect for each other's organization and members I am a Regiment alumnus so I would encourage you to check us out. And then? Follow your heart. If it leads you to the Cavaliers have a blast! If it leads you to the PR. welcome to the phamily!

At least they treat their members better than Crown does...you should've seen the posts on social media after this season. Talk about brutal.

It is an important distinction. Down play it all you would like, but the fact that members are treated better at one organization AND are competitively superior is and SHOULD BE a large factor in deciding where to go. This is just a common sense thing, but that concept is hard to understand for sadists.

I'm glad guard has come so far since then. That is cringe worthy.

You do realize you are basically acknowledging the way that Phantom Regiment treats their members is pointless sometimes and the "most difficult moments in your life" could largely be toned down. Otherwise, the group wouldn't have spent the last 15 years largely losing to The Cavaliers.

Showing your age there. Retreat has about as much relevance to current DCI members as G bugles do. Like I said originally, The Cavaliers largely reject that nonsense. Funny, they were right, it is all but gone now.

I have never marched with either Cavies or PR, but I will share a few observations. Keep in mind I'm probably in the same age range of your parents. PR has presented some of my favorite shows, the more classically oriented the show, the more I enjoy it. While I love PR' shows, I have not been all that impressed with watching them rehearse. I have no problem with high standards or being demanding, but when I have watched rehearsals, I have been less than impressed with some of the ways staff has treated marching members. Not all staff, but a few. However, when I've talked with kids who march with PR at shows, they love everything about their experience. Now I have not witnessed the laid back atmosphere that one person used to describe a Cavies rehearsal actually I thought the rehearsals were pretty grueling, but there was a respect for the matching members from staff members. My observations are not recent (two years ago for PR, one year for Cavies), and perhaps I saw an off day for PR and a spot on day for Cavies, but you may need to be thick skinned if you march with PR.

Disagree with the bold section. They do have time in the lot to mingle and talk to other corps members. They definitely are one of the more self-controlled corps in public. I know they have always marched in pairs (until last year maybe?). I've spoken with a few Cavies who say that their first year is rough. They definitely have to earn their keep. Very fraternity-like.

Didn't the Crossmen and the Cadets do this for several seasons before the sale, I mean relocation to San Antonio? The Cadets and Cadets 2 have been doing this for the past two years and have it scheduled in Pennington, NJ again in November.

I think maybe not having vets re-audtion might be ok, but when it comes to cutting vets... sometimes it needs to be done. I don't want to stand next to a vet who has a horrible attitude and doesn't work when I could have a rookie who is enjoying it and committing 100% to everything. Cutting a vet to me is cool as long as its based on other things besides playing... like overall work ethic, attitude, and commitment. my $0.02

I've marched with people who were cut as vets or made it to move-ins and got cut. I didn't ask why they were cut, no sense in opening old wounds not to mention its more important that they are now with an ensemble that wanted them. It sucks but it reminds me of a saying I've heard, "Your spot in this drum corps is not finalized until after your last performance."

I've seen the last year's guard captain cut at the first audition for a Div I corps when there was a transition in guard staff.

I agree. I'm trying to find out if there are corps out there that will sacrifice vets with heart and good attitudes to get a rookie with more talent. If there are corps that do that - it royally sucks of them to do that. If they do that, they are just using people. Someone above said that Bluecoats cut 7 vets in 2005 - I hope it was for some other reason than just some rookies having more talent. I would be very disappointed in my alma mater if I find out that they've adopted the "win at all costs" attitude.

If I was a corps director, my policy would be to never cut vets. Obvious exceptions would be horrible attitudes, non-attendance and a few other things that would cause problems. But less talent than a rookie or can't play a horn as well as August? Bogus. There are such things as honor and loyalty.....and it goes both ways. The only excuse for cutting a vet with heart is that your corps policy is "win at all costs". In that case, I hope you cut a vet and they go to your rival corps and kick you captial A all over the feild. Also, I hope the rookie you gave his/her positioin too sees that you have no dedication to your members and quits in death camp to attend a summer wind ensemble festival. In addition, I hope the vet scores it big in his/her career years later and makes a giant donation to his/her new home.

i've marched with some guys that had a horrible attitude. one never listened to instruction, ###### everyone off constantly, and always talked about how much they wanted to go home. i can't believe he actually came back for auditions the next year. good player, but obviously didn't make the cut. don't know anything for sure, but i'm preeeetty sure it was simply because of attitude. another guy was just your average drum corps kid his rookie year, then when he was a two-year, he became a total arrogant ########. sysys (second year six year syndrome). he thought he could tell ANYONE what to do, and treated the rookies horribly. he annoyed the other vets and the rookies stopped listening to him, so he couldn't do any real harm, but he was still a major source of bad attitude. so anyways, i've never known a vet to get cut for playing/marching reason, just for poor attitude. i've seen vets get cut, and i've been very thankful that they were.

vets should and do get a spotlight. They've been through at least one summer with a corps and they staff knows if they can or can't cut it. BUT!--- There should be no absolute statement like "vets don't get cut". That makes all other variables obsolete (sp?). Vets need to hold the expecations that the corps has of them.

Hold your flames! This is not intended to be what you think (i.e. a debate on why we think or don't think a horn makes "drum corps what it is"). That IS a worn out debate and one that does not need to be re-hashed any further. What I want to talk about is another area of this subject. That area being the educational value of understanding other types of brass instruments. Sit back and relax as I begin to ramble... In 2000 when DCI legalized the use of Bb instruments, the first thing I wanted to know was what the reason was. And I committed to myself that I would not allow my own mind to form an opinion on the issue until I knew what their reasoning was. After all, what right do I have to criticize a decision made by any organization without knowing the why. The answer was not hard to find and was publicized rather quickly in very simple terms. The nutshell reason was "it makes it easier for those in the band world to participate in drum corps". Easier? OK, I won't argue that! No really, I won't argue that one bit. But now my next question is, why make it easier if drum corps is an activity that is supposed to stretch the very best in the marching arts beyond their comfort zone and rise above all levels of mediocrity? When I was in college at a California State University in the mid 90s, I can remember as a music major having a C Trumpet placed in my hands. I also remember an Eb trumpet being placed in my hands. My gosh, I even had a cornetto, valveless bugle, piccolo trumpet etc etc. You name it, if it was any kind of a trumpet or an instrument relative to the trumpet, I had to spend some time learning it. Thank you to a great applied trumpet teacher. Well, here is another observation. I had some very good trumpet players around me at this university. I remember one freshman trumpet player who was both friend and rival to me as a player and the one thing he struggled with was picking up these other trumpets. Oh man, I can remember sitting next to him in orchestra as he complained about having to play the C trumpet so much. So why do I bring this up? Well, to put it bluntly. When these horns in various other keys with various different feels were placed in my hands, I personally did not struggle any more than I did with a Bb trumpet. Do I say that to puff myself up? Absolutely not. I say that because I believe very strongly that the reason I was able to adapt quickly to these other brass instruments was because at age 14 after already playing the Bb trumpet for 6 years I was handed a G bugle. I learned how to go from one to the other. And as a result, I made a higher chair than this other trumpet player who FOR ALL PRACTICAL PURPOSES WAS ACTUALLY A BETTER CLASSICAL PLAYER THAN I! This guy SHOULD have beat me in ANY classical or symphonic ensemble but to this day I believe I beat him out for one reason. I could play a trumpet pitched in any key with little to no time needed to re- adjust. So what is my conclusion? My conclusion is, it's a shame that DCI has fully switched over to Bb. NOT...I repeat...NOT because of sentimental or traditional reasons but because I FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE believe drum corps placing a horn pitched in an unusual key to it's members was one of the most educational experiences the activity offered. Now, I feel we have simply limited our options of what we can teach our kids in the activity and have taken one more step in the direction of making drum corps an activity duped in mediocrity. Now, to qualify further- do I mind that options would ALLOW (key word) Bb instruments in Drum Corps. Not one bit. But why not use the G bugles once and a while? Especially if a corps is doing something in the context of nostalgia. Why does a trumpet section in a n orchestra go to cornettos when playing a baroque piece? Because the sound and feel of the instrument is more authentic to the period. Why do you use a C trumpet in anything from the romantic period and following? Because the sound and feel are more authentic to the period. Why should a drum corps use a G Bugle when playing an old drum corps classic? Because the sound and feel are more authentic to the period.... ...having made that last statement...picture this. The next corps who does Malaguena...whoever that is...doesn't matter. They finish the first 3 quarters of their show. They are about to do a big ending of Malaguena. So they go into total silence, walk up to the front of the field...kind of like Blue Devils did when they took their Jackets off in 1992...they put down their Bb horns that they just used in the more modern parts of their show...they pick up the G bugles...and WHAM!!!! they hit you across the face with that first hit in Malaguena. And the rest is history. Do you not get chills with that visualization?

Really nice thread and I appreciate the points that have been made. I can kind of relate to the 'lost their ear' bit. I returned to my college marching band after a summer of drum corps (1984) and it did take a week or so to get comfortable with playing Bb trumpet again......in terms of catching the correct pitch everytime. The pucker and blow for a G above the staff on bugle seemed to only get a fourth line E on trumpet. BUT.......this was not an 'ear' issue so much as it was a physical one. What I did like on return was having the chops (faster, higher, louder go) that the two or three 'better' trumpet players at my school who mostly laid off the horn over the summer were eating my dust for a month or so. So............I miss really good G bugle lines. I don't hate really good Bb lines. I equally enjoyed the Renegades and Reading Buccaneers at a recent DCA show. David

While I do not disagree that the older G bulge lines were more powerful than the current lines, one very important fact that seems to be overlooked in this debate is many (not all) of the "powerful" lines being referenced are not only G bugle lines, they are two value g bugle lines. Personally, I noticed a huge different between my 2 valve drum corps mellophone, and 3 valve F melly in marching band. The 3 valve instrument took more air to produce less sound. If you don't think this makes a difference, check out the volume the smaller Marines line gets from their 2 valve G bugles. Yes, playing in tune and together create more volume, but given their numbers, they put out some serious volume compared to the 3 valve Bb lines.

FYI; there's no rule against G. There is no key restriction. What's illegal are slide instruments and souzaphones. Note how all the corps quickly switched. It wasn't for a competitive advantage; you're saying that you can part hair more with G's. That's not correct. Your inherent belief might be that they are louder, and in fact, corps of yore may have indeed been louder. I think you're confusing the controlled playing required to get numbers these days with G vs. Bb. There are some arguments for Bb, and for G. Both legit. But in the "market economy" of the corps, they all felt that it was worth changing, spending millions of dollars collectively on it. No one said they had to; they could use any horn they chose. And yet, Bb they went.

Part of this argument was to expand the musical background of brass players. I think it can be said that for the most part, G bugles were of questionable quality. It's not hard to get a Bb trumpet - go to a band store. Thus competition allows for better manufacturing, etc. Additionally, it has allowed for sponsorship. There's a reason that some drumlines play on those "awesome" Dynasty drums... Anyhow, it's a well thought argument, but I don't think it's a disservice to the members. Noble thought, but it's a practical stretch, IMO.

Only Bb reason I actually agreed with was that new corps could use buy the existing used Bbs a lot easier and cheaper than the Gs. Someone even suggested that the members could bring their own horns if the corps couldn't afford to hand out horns to everyone. Back to local DC anyone? Wierdest reason I saw was the person who said he/she "lost their ear" playing a G horn over the summer and it took a month or so to get it back.

I htink one other aspect of the "easier for band kids to get into drum corps" angle is the simple fact that the Bb horns are out there in school programs....Esperanza started out on Bb...Hawthorne Gold did so last year... In fact...that's the BEST reason for the Bb rule, IMHO...take an established program and extend it into the drum corps season...more corps = GOOD THING! For myself, tho....I would've preferred a time ruling...if you start out in Bb you must complete a transition to G within 10 years unless a financial hardship could be proven....but that's just me...and the existing G guys couldn't switch to Bb unless their existing horns were truly falling apart...but then you'd have tghe same time restriction...

If your premise is correct, then why not go back to a single valve? Or no valve? That's authentic and a far greater challenge to the musician. Though not accepting your premise, I agree that picking up another set of bugles would be a great visual/psychological effect. Musically, I think it's neutral. But do it anyway. HH