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No Lee some of us chuckle when we see your latest missive.... You try to come across as being the only one who knows how to do something and you do make some good points. But then you slam anyone who doesn't totally agree with you. And for those of us with long memories there were threads that make some of us leery of what you write now. Starting RAMD threads to try to rile up someone you had problems with (and had problems herself) and then complaining that you were only defending yourself when people called you on it. (How is it defending when you start the thread.) Edit: Removed second point as found a statement from Lee clearing things up.... Wasn't going to reply but tired of the arrogance. If you want to discuss then discuss, this posting your ideas and then sitting back and waiting to flat out INSULT anyone who disagrees does not help. Do you really want a discussion or just looking for attention?

a great point Kyle......with fans being down on Rochester, can't travel for a variety of reasons.....fan network numbers can improve. $70 for the weekend. Not bad considering DCI is $99 for the season..that money after expenses goes to the corps. better to get some money from those that won't go then none at all. and if DCA could figure out a way to show some shows during the summer, that may HELP live attendance

DCA's fans disaapearing have largely to do with 3 things, and none of it involves who wins 1) death/old age. DCA's fan base is old. 2) location. it's become apparent Rochesters attendance isn't what it was 10 years ago 3) marketing aimed at the next generation. With #1 being an issue, you need this to replace and hopefully add bodies. But it's not happening. Until you realize this and understand and accept it, you'll keep beating a dead horse that's not grounded in the real world.

Yes, and Crown is also the new Star, and all-male corps don't have a chance of competing any more on the same level as coed corps. Oh, and Bob Barker died again during the 2015 season.

To discuss your question, I'll go point by point: 1) "Instrumentation has improved and is more varied and corps are no longer 'Drum and Bugle Corps' in the truest sense. As for the instrumentation being improved, I would think that if anything, this would lead to MORE kids desiring to march. It's a heck of lot more enjoyable to perform on a quality instrument than it is to have to fight with an old, out-of-tune, piece of crap. As for what we call the activity, I don't think this has any effect upon potential membership. Kids will simply desire to march...or NOT desire to march. And if nothing else, the name "Drum and Bugle Corps ("in the truest sense")" might possibly be more psychologically limiting to a potential marching member. My feeling would be that this statement is not of basis. 2) "Techniques have improved." Here again, I would see this as a POSITIVE to a potential marching member. The better the technique, the better (or more successful) each Corps has the potential for being. And the greater the potential for the corps, the greater amount of enjoyment and satisfaction would normally be felt by the members within it. Again, I see no negative effect that this would lend to the current status of the activity. 3) "Military approaches have been shed in favour of a more artistic approach or interpretation opening up the activity to many that may have otherwise ignored it." Unless I'm reading this incorrectly, this statement seems to go against your very thesis. How would an approach that "opens up" an activity to many more members lead to a decrease in numbers in that very activity??? 4) "Drill has become choreographed." Incorrect. Drill has not suddenly become choreographed. The activity has always been choreographed. I don't recall many shows, even going back to the earliest of days, where movement was done on a willy-nilly, "as the spirit moves you" basis. Forms have always been forms. Step sizes have always been step sizes. Lines have always been lines, and curves have always been curves. And all of these have always been taught and instructed according to a plan, or "design." Now, if what you mean by this is "Drill now includes a far wider variety of movement and expression," then I don't see how it would suddenly be a limiting factor in regards to membership. Yes, there is more dance than ever before. But this isn't drill...it's a matter of expression. 5) "Judging has changed." Judging hasn't changed, for the most part. The dictates under which judges operate may have changed. The sheets have changed. The "tick versus build-up" approach has changed. But the judging, by and large (in my opinion, admittedly) hasn't changed. Judges judge. They watch...they listen...they mentally assess...and they provide feedback and, ultimately, numbers. I don't see how this statement applies. 6) "The number of corps has diminished significantly and we are left with a comparative few 'giants' who dominate the activity...." Ahhhh....your first statement which has some degree of merit. BUT...it is a self-fulfilling statement. It is much the same as saying "The daily temperatures have decreased because it has slowly gotten colder." 7) "...and naturally select the 'creme de la creme' possibly denying the opportunity for the less talented." First, of course ANY competitive unit is naturally going to select the very best performers from its' auditions. But just because a student is not accepted by the Blue Devils, Cadets, Bluecoats et al. does not mean that the activity is suddenly closed to that student. There ARE other corps...many other corps...who might still accept them. If anything, I sometimes wonder if the real problem here is that some potential members go into the audition process with a "pie in the sky" attitude, overlooking or not accepting his or her own current deficiencies, hoping to join and be a member of one of the best rather than taking a more realistic attitude of "I'm just not at that point yet. I think I'll start elsewhere." I've always felt that there is some degree of truth to a statement of "The greatest limitation and hindrance to human civilization is human civilization." Often times we, more than anyone around us, limit ourselves -- simply by not accepting our current abilities, and proceeding on a realistic course from there. 8) "Some would argue that the diversity and difference which for them made the activity interesting has been lost and shows have become almost generic." And I might argue that if a potential marching member does their research across the activity, they would find that there still exists a high degree of diversity within the activity. Bluecoats are becoming known for their electronics...Phantom has always taken a "Classical Music" approach (by and large, of course)...Cadets are known for the speed of drill being a major component...on and on and on. Even if you go back to the earliest days, you would find corps and shows which could be clumped into categories. Blue Devils and Scouts (and later, Suncoast Sound) lived and died for years with a jazz or "pop"-centered approach. Vanguard, Phantom, 27th, and Cavaliers tended to take a more traditional approach. Many of the Jersey-centered corps were heavy into the latin. I know I'm speaking in generalities here...but I think the rationale holds at least some degree of truth. Now, to answer the intended question of your post: I see the greatest effect on the evolution of the activity coming down to one simple word -- economics. Shoddy equipment doesn't work anymore. Shoddy travel equipment (buses, vans, etc.) doesn't work anymore. Shoddy nutrition and menu planning doesn't work anymore. As Fred Morris said in the film "America's Corps" (and I'm paraphrasing here): "It's a business now. A big business. It's not like the old days when everything was done around the kitchen table." A group which wishes to consider itself as being "World Class" (and I would submit that the same would hold true for the "Open Class" corps, which in reality are nothing less than "smaller World Class" entities) must now be "World Class" in every respect. PB&J's don't, and realistically can't, make up the entire summer menu. Corps aren't needing to hitch rides from other corps with regularity due to bus breakdowns. And all of this takes money. Yes, it may very well be a variation of Darwin's "Survival of the Fittest." But then again...isn't life??? And by the way, Freaky...none of this being said was done so as an attack upon you. Your over-riding question of "Where are we going?" is well-founded and apt. All of this was simply my simple response to your question.

And how will removing another corps from the contest help with either of those issues? For that matter, why do you conclude that there is any link between repetitive winners and sagging attendance? Attendance did not drop like this when Brigadiers were on top, or for the first 7 or 8 recent Reading wins - only the past couple of years. And what is different about those years? For one thing, a certain evil drum corps from California has been absent... I have a suggestion for you. Instead of trying to remove a top corps from competition, do something that will bring more corps (one more, at least) and fans to DCA. Bring back the Renegades!

Problem with dca ..sure i can buy that. with competition? I dont think so...Ive said in in the dCI thread as well as here. Change whatever you want. winners just know how to win.His view was quite strong and although he back peddled from one thread to another a bit and of course is entitled to an opinion he offers no solutions and doesnt respond when someone ask's a question. Personally I think the bigger issue with DCA today, in 2015 is that it is still for the most part run like it was 1970. YES DCA is a part time weekend only drum corps activity BUT that alone has to compete with the fact it is 2015. Nothing is the same. I think DCA from at least an admin. stand point has to start thinking out of the box and run it like a business to survive. find ways of generating more attendance and money all year. enough to hire the proper people. Most part time, hobby type things are all but gone in the world. maybe it's time to enter this century.

You keep repeating the same things and not actually engaging with the people who are responding to your comments. Here's one more question you can ignore: how do you know that most of the audience is there for the competition rather than to be entertained by a bunch of performances? At lots of drum corps shows I attend, a good chunk of the audience leaves before scores are announced. If they're not there for the competition, then the (supposed) lack of it won't hurt attendance. (As regards this thread's title, I'm surprised no one has yet replied, "Thank goodness blog posts aren't killing the Reading Buccaneers!")

In other words, Blue Devils have killed the activity and Crown should have won last year, right?

Dont hate the player hate the game..thats why its called a competition. I love the Coats, its not just the 'electronics'.. listen here...How about their show design, music, the 'electronics; just enhances what is already a brilliant combination. Nothing about it was lame. It left you wanting more and got you out of your seat at the end didnt it? Youre lying if you said it didnt:) Love you Coats! Bring on 2016

The issue with fewer corps competing and attendance has nothing to do with Reading's success. It's like that quack British Doctor claiming years ago that vaccines caused Autism. Period. No connection. None. No real research nor proof. All retracted later for a lack of any real underpinning of well-researched facts. Sounds more like someone's bitter for several reasons and needs to periodically scream at the clouds because they occasionally rain on them, they like the attention and they also consider it part of their particular style of performance art. A style that was never fully embraced as much as they thought it should have been in terms of scoring, in terms of what they felt should have been thought of as utterly superior, game-changing, and the best solution to the challenge. It's a risk one takes when one goes counter to the Meta. When one does things like this, one should realize it may not be likely to win, it may not change the game as much as they hoped, it may not be the superior solution to the problem nor the only solution in what is an arena of ideas. Obviously, one organization has figured out how to come up with the best solution for some time. How? They adapted when the rubrics and system have been changed, in some ways ostensibly to be moved specifically against them. They constantly improve the quality of what they present. They developed an organizational infrastructure and culture that enables them to be successful. I sense more a snide and smug "I know what's best for everyone, just ask me" envy emanating than any legit discussion of real solutions- mainly because there's no real connection between the problem at hand and the supposed cause of said problem. More Macbeth, Act Five, Scene Five at hand.

It's not hated enough to be loved in 20 years.

After a great deal of reflection - I have to say... We had a show this past summer that will define and influence shows for at least a decade to come The design was like a Drum Corps Mona Lisa. The more you stare at it - the better it gets I honestly believe it was severely underscored in GE by the DCI judging community And as evidence I offer an indoor run of the 2015 Bluecoats just prior to finals night https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQtuAyiPI98 An amazing and layered program, fresh and creative in so many ways So well done and original - Bravo! George.

Hello everyone. I’ve made my position crystal clear on the DCA competition problem, my blog has been officially designated a national security threat within DCA, and I probably won’t have anything further to add on this issue until the next DCA Ground Hog Day in September 2016. But I want everyone to know one thing. I didn’t speak up to hurt or antagonize anybody. I spoke up because if changes are not made soon, DCA will die. I have spoken to many people over the last year who are not just “not” interested in going to DCA anymore, but who are no longer interested in performing at DCA, even if the trip is free. I’m not talking about people who show up anyway and complain – I’m talking about the people who checked out of DCA, from all over the country. Look around you - it's not about who is there. It's about who is not there. There are many of us. I am speaking up in the hopes that change will come to the DCA judging system. If changes are made, DCA can become competitive and fun again, resulting in tremendous growth to all-age drum corps as DCA has in the years before and the very start of the Buccaneers competitive tirade. People will return if the playing field is level. Look, nobody did anything wrong to cause this problem. The DCA Board did nothing wrong. The DCA judges did nothing wrong. And the Reading Buccaneers did not do anything wrong. Point of fact, the Buccaneers created this existential problem in DCA because they did everything correct, doing whatever was needed to do to win in a flawed judging system that puts too much emphasis on demand, and ends up encouraging DCA corps to copy DCI to succeed, which will fail unless you can get a corps substantially comprised of 20-year olds. Which defeats the point of DCA. The solution here is not to make the Reading Buccaneers lose. The solution is to give other DCA corps a reasonable chance to win DCA. Whether they do or not, is on them. But under the current status, most DCA corps will never win DCA again. Not because I said so, based upon the historical record, and what is happening to the fan base and corps. I hope big changes are made to the DCA judging system, and I hope they are made soon. For the sake of DCA. 7 Lee Rudnicki

so in your eyes, despite the many other valid things people mention that could help DCA grow, it all comes down to Bucs tanking. let me ask you something Lee... on the DCI side, BD has won 6 of the last 9, and been #### close the other 3 years. Yet their attendance has show increases, even if fans are getting tired of Indy. So obviously competition isn't driving that bus, as last year, BD was pretty much assured of the win in May, yet attendance went up. why is that?

yet he still offers no answers when asked to explain

Lee has done more to help DCA's marketing over the years than any of us posting here, and likely all of us combined. His TV commercial a few years ago for Rochester's championships was outstanding.

Excuse me for offering some "general" observations, but I just don't know enough about DCA to get too specific. That said - There appears from afar to be two issues. First is the perception of DCA as "DCI-lite," and second is the actual structure/governance of DCA. From what's been reported, the age of marchers in DCA groups has been steadily dropping. That's good! Younger members = longer members. Nothing wrong with that. I would, however, much rather see DCA corps playing to their strengths, and that really is the fact that you have amazing musicians that have been doing their thing for far longer than the DCI kids. DCI trumps DCA on pure athletic ability, and that's to be expected - these are kids who do it every day. (I'm not tarring every corps with the same brush here - it's just the general trend.) But DCA really could trump even DCI on the music side of the equation, especially if the DCI "how many tempos/transitions can we fit into 11 minutes" is relaxed. Anyways, like I said, I'm speaking to the general drift here. Second, DCA is the only all-age corps game in town, but they are so geographically restricted that by structure alone it cuts off a huge number of former MM's. I get it - DCA The Circuit is not a full time operation. But it's probably time to have the discussion - maybe they should be. For all the Renegades brought to DCA, the most important was probably tapping into a massive pool of corps alumni in California, which you may have noticed is riddled with junior corps, churning out former members every single year. Maybe DCA should be networking like crazy, looking for the next Lee Rudnicki (Renegades) or Chris Green (Carolina Gold, Frontier) to strategically assist getting Western corps off the ground. With enough corps at some point, maybe even create a DCA Western Championship that runs the same weekend. So what if you get two national champions? You save corps cross-country travel costs in the short run that will help them develop in the long run. Or maybe, if we go full "free market" here for a bit, those western powers-that-be ought to consider their own circuit with their own champion. Healthy competition might bring out the best in everyone. Anyways, sorry for the parachute-in comments. Just some general thoughts from halfway to either coast... Mike

I think you mean Jonathan "Gimmicky" Vanderkolff

Let's not forget that Jon Vanderkoff was the mastermind behind both shows.

Are you serious? A chord on a synth caused BD to use KPOP? Wow, that's reaching if you ask me. I would equate BD using that piece the growing interest in KPOP, Manga, Anime, etc over the past few years, not because of a electronic pitch bend.

I actually had some of the same thoughts, but time has given me a slightly different perspective than George. I could write a dissertation on this, but I think I can keep it short. The similarities with Star 1993 (and really 1991-1993) with Bluecoats 2015 (and really 2014 too) are easy to see. Both expanded the acceptable range of what an attendee might see within the confines of competition. There's no doubt that both groups are pushing the concepts of "what drum corps is" in a competitive setting. That's where this seems to end for me. The differences are much more stark: Star's performance differs because the composition chosen was otherwise deemed unsuitable for the field. If we're honest, the Bluecoats arrangements didn't seem "genre-busting" in any way. Star used the field for spatial stereoscopic effects, sometimes called podding. Pods had been around earlier than that, for sure - it was a "thing" in the mid-80's. You always broke up your drumline for quick pod hits that A/B back and forth, and brought it together as an artificial crescendo for the "drum solo" (remember those?). Star went far beyond simple podding, and did what the Beatles did when you listened to headphones - it gave a true spacial experience. The impetus was moved around the field in a way never seen before. I would argue that while the Bluecoats did a great deal of this, it was not new but using the new tools. The Bluecoats did this with their electronics; for sure a first in how, but not groundbreaking outside of being the first to truly use electronics *to their advantage* and *as an instrument* unto itself. Speaking of, the Bluecoats finally cracked the code of using electronics to augment their instrumentation *as an instrument*. Much as you see those who use electronics in their art, this was no longer reinforcement or running something through a filter. It wasn't a *setting*, rather the sampling and motion were used in a dynamic way to process and then produce. That is art, and for this, the Bluecoats did in fact break new ground. It's been a decade in coming, but here it is. So, in the interest of brevity (because there really is a lot more to this), my view of the Bluecoats-Star associative innovation is simply that they were both under-appreciated at the time they were judged. They broke ground in different areas, but I think the Bluecoats are getting a little too much credit for the things that Star did. Only an organization that was leaving the field would ever do a mic-drop quite like Star. However, the Bluecoats innovations should not be undervalued either. As it relates to electronics on the field, they were innovative. Instead of hamster effects, they are now the torch bearers for how it can work in the favor of your music, and not just in a "what does this button do" reactive mentality.

He can use the 2014 platforms as the start of Trump's wall.

Let's just have everyone go back to this and stop arguing... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELDQCcHeF2E

so - to define the word being used here: (sounds to me like it refers more to uniforms that change color, sashes that light up, big banners of fabric - there's nothing wrong with those but Coats was more of a complete "approach" than a "trick") gim·mick ˈɡimik/ noun a trick or device intended to attract attention, publicity, or business.

2014 was a gamechanger for the Bluecoats, not really drum corps as a whole.

Even if what you say here pans out, that will not "replace" or properly compare to the Star 1993 phenomenon. 1993 Star of Indiana provoked strong reactions from everyone who witnessed them. Some loved them, others hated them, but no one was on the fence about them. For fans who objected to the increasing use of musical dissonance and the body movement trend creeping into the activity at that time, 93 Star became the lightning rod for their fury. Should Bluecoats be the trend setter for some form of electronics usage, maybe their innovation will be looked upon with the same fervor as the pit ride cymbal.

27th Lancers 71/72 75/76/77 79/80/81/82/83 Of course, it was the SAME tune each year!

I am THRILLED by both the Pitts announcement and the move back to King instruments. 2 very strong moves by Phantom that have great potential to bring back more of the Regiment identity that I for one have missed dreadfully since 2008 (apart from Elsa's in the Juliet show). Pitts has lived and breathed some of Phantom's greatest works since the 90s and understands what Regiment does best. From all accounts, he's young, talented, and will have "big boy" talented members to arrange for. And, this could be a very long term solution. Thanks for making both of these overdue changes!!! I'm excited again like I haven't been since JD left... And now, how to get Rennick, Jamie & Adam back.... (evil grin) And yes, I don't think it's possible, but one can dream... Harvey

This was one of 2 incredibly great news posts I saw today after not being on DCP for 2 weeks! (Along with Don Hill being replaced). Phantom hasn't truly sounded like Phantom (Quality of brass sound) since they went away from the King instruments starting in 2009 and moved to Jupiter. Perhaps instruction is a factor, but this is great news and I can't wait to hear more of Phantom's classic lush sound return this coming year!!! Harvey

Blue Devils 1988 (Since I Fell For You) and 1989 (If We Were in Love), or Phantom 1993 (Fire of Eternal Glory) and 1994 (Claire de Lune). Mike

The 2016 Kilties are pleased to announce............... Mr. Rick Kirby will be returning as brass arranger and composer. Mr. Dave Nelson will be returning as percussion arranger and composer. Mr. Andy Falvey, new to The Kilties for the 2016 season, will be creating all visual design. The Kilties are excited in the return of Rick Kirby and Dave Nelson for the 2016 season; and the addition of Andy Falvey's great talents and skills in visual design. The Kilties kick-off the 2016 season with their annual Membership/First Rehearsal Weekend---slated for December 5-6, 2015. More news to follow.............. ~Since 1934~

**** it! I forgot that the White Sabers were so close.

yup. I don't like the place, but no one else is giving DCA the keys to the town for free. granted in other places the scoreboard may work

Did Empire fold because of Reading? Syracuse? Renegades? No. I guaran***tee you that Lee would not be saying the same thing if SCV was winning 10 out of 11 years. But he claims to be a proud alumni, but he just wants to take them down about 5 pegs because they have their #### together. Reading is not keeping people from going to shows. If anything, they are one of the reasons that people still go, because it's not a "hey let's get drunk and put on a show circuit" anymore in the eyes of DCI followers. I hate to say it, but if DCA wants more people to come to shows, they need to tell DCI to stop having alumni at shows and ask for DCA corps for exhibitions. Many people just assume that is what DCA is all about.

why not offer some understanding. The rant about how everyone should be ###### that bucs won again doesnt show and answer. then a back peddle saying its noones fault sounded quite different. Input is one thing offering a solution instead of just an opinion is quite another. You said status quo, ok whats that. Same corps winning? Sheets? what? Just trying to understand points of view but when someone offers a bold statement then no explaining themselves , it will always come off as trolling or at very least an antagonist.

Lets get down to brass tacks here-Bluecoats found a way to fight their way to the top 3 whether it was 'electronics incorporated into the show, change of use of the spheres and ending changes, you have to know what works and what get the judges and audience on their feet. The music was brilliant! Bon Iver, genius!, Their look, their execution, their use of the field all worked. If you stay scrappy and pay attention all things pay off. You could have the electronics and have a terrible show, Agreed? Bluecoats pulled this one out-BIGTIME!

And still won't step up to resolve an obvious problem... thanks for the advertising... did it put people in the stands?

I agree completely. This show was ground breaking and not given it's due. You can tell by a few of the comments here on how little is actually understood of what they pulled off from a mic, delay, and sound augmentation standpoint. They broke new ground on how they had to set this up in terms of cabling, repeaters, etc. From talking to a few members, the listening requirements on the field were pretty ridiculous at times. This video helped open my eyes to the complexity of what they were pulling off. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxYtu9j3gZA I can't wait to see what they do in 2016. I hope they push this more.

My only concern with the future of DCI is the cost. Imagine how much more talent the Cadets would receive if it wasn't $4,000 to march. I understand running a drum corps is in no way cheap, but if the price continues to rise, the activity may become even more restricted. The Cadets will probably always have a viable pool of talent, even if the cost is $7,000. It's the smaller, less dominant corps I worry about.

"Got Courage?"... Start by looking at yourself? If you're soo concerned with how DCA is run, get in there and make changes. Please...help the activity grow instead of trolling on message boards and blog sites. I would love nothing more, than to go to a DCA championship and fight the crowds because of attendance.

The Blue Devils' ballads the last two years were amazing.

It was an approach across the board to the musical design and arrangement of the voices and sections. Not a "gimmick" A "gimmick" would be 2015's SCV sashes lighting up, or 2014 Cadets cumbers changing color for each tune. JMO

nah. In my view the 2014 show was a good show with one (well, two) great moments. The 2015 show is a masterpiece of design from start to finish. Not relying on a single bit WOW. JMO of course.

To the OP: no. Not a fundamental shift in the activity. Cool? Yes. But I'm inclined to use the "g" word for a lot of it. We'll see where it goes.

Yes. It's a gimmick. Kudos to them for figuring out how to record and place speakers, I guess that's Earth-shattering.

Jamey Thompson coming on board to Madison as a visual consultant/design team. http://www.madisonscoutslive.com/mainsite/about/staff/

Jim, that's a great point. No offense to the Lancers when they were an RCA/DCA corps... but they never made the "musical memories" that corps such as Caballeros, Skyliners, Reilly Raiders, etc. made back in the day. Thus, the Lancers are a blank slate when it comes to the repertoire for their current corps. They can play anything they want, and not risk the "wrath" (for lack of a better term) of someone saying, "Man... I miss them playing (X or Y tune from back in the day). Why aren't they playing it anymore???" Certainly, it also doesn't hurt that the current Lancers have a great horn line... and their drum line isn't too shabby, either.

an army of one!

And pull it off they did! What a fantastic hornline! Without a doubt my favorite Cadets show ever! Wish they placed higher because they sure brought it.