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I don't care either way & I'm not a mod. There was just a ton of conversation already in this thread about the YEA! changes PRIOR to the "other thread" so it seemed a bit misguided Additionally I would like to make another point: I certainly hope (and assume) that 95% or greater of the folks posting in EITHER thread want nothing but the best for the Cadets. However, it's a bit important to be realistic - there are a small number of folks posting either aligned with GH or the folks that led the corps in 2018 & 2019. All are entitled to their perspective - however it would be GREAT if everyone was just honest with their feelings or "agenda" -- and here is where the discussion is lacking. DCP allows anonymity - which is fine. We thought a great deal about requiring users to display their real name when I first formed DCP and decided against it - but the nature of RAMD at that time made me (us) heavily consider it. However I felt it was necessary to allow - due to value of letting someone share their perspective privately in certain situations. This is akin to allowing an assault victim or witness to share information or allegations privately in police/court cases - such as a "crime tip" It's interesting now since we have (at least) 1 of the GH victims posting here. A wonderful perspective to be shared. Of great value IMO However - we also have "friends" of GH (there's a group of folks aligned with GH who believe, to this day, that "a group of cranky alumni used allegations to "steal away" the Cadets from GH Hard to believe - but these folks exist. Quite sad and alarming. So - several of that group are also posting here Then the past two years - there's a couple (one quite vocal) who clearly are aligned (friends?) with the folks leading the corps in 2018/2019. That I have a bit more (personal) sympathy for. Those were hard working and very well meaning individuals. However, mistakes were made (some more than once) in that the organization "under-delivered" and over-promised in my view. Most concern mistakes (member housing, show design decisions and over-spending) weren't just made ONCE they were made twice So - another agenda being "shared" behind anonymous screen names. So - my advice is "reader beware" Anyone with a noodle realizes a few things about the Cadets right now: 1. They are in clear "rebuilding mode" - both fiscally & competitively 2. Currently the Cadets are a mid-finalist type corps (10th-6th range) - competitive success, great member experience and great show design will result in more auditioneers next winter and beyond 3. Cadets corps isn't "full" YET. Percussion is reported to be in good shape. A "few" additional brass spots remain. Guard tryouts are underway vs. video and happen in April. But they'll be full in May and perhaps a bit younger than recently. Young is a risk, but the tour is well-built to max out a younger corps. It allows for more basics & more ensemble time 4. In the activity we need the Cadets - folks mention the "10 world championships" while ignoring the time/role prior to the combine & pre-DCI. Let's be positive, be hopeful and be a bit patient. I believe in the team leading the corps NOW. And I believe in the corps' legacy. It will get there! The work-ethic of the corps and these people will serve them well Those posting anonymously - just be HONEST about your perspective. If you believe in GH - say so. If you wish Scott was still running the corps - announce that. Everyone is entitled to share their perspective - but please, be honest about it! Finally - Garfield - thanks as always for your thoughtful, calm posts. I always enjoy and gain something from reading them! Thanks, George.

Hello, all – my name is Michael and I marched mellophone in the 1996 Cavaliers and was absolutely obsessed with drum corps in the late 80s and 90s when I was in high school and college. I started to lose interest in drum corps after about 2009 and stopped going to shows or paying much attention to what was going on in DCI at all. I still went to finals in 2011 and was thoroughly unimpressed. I decided to pay to watch 2019 finals at home to see again if things had gotten any better. Let’s just say the Beatles are my favorite band and the Bluecoats got me back into watching drum corps big time. I had so much fun that night, I spent some big bucks and bought all the DCI blu-rays going back to 2013, the first year I stopped buying DCI DVDs before. I must say, generally I’m still unimpressed, but there are some great shows out there now from the last six years. The trends in the activity are interesting and to buy up the whole recent history of DCI in one go and take it all in for the first time was wonderful. I’ve read a fair amount of what’s going on in this forum to learn what other “old-timers” here think about the “new stuff”. I decided not to read too much more of that until I made this first post and give my impressions of what’s going on from my own “naïve” individual point of view as a “re-newcomer” to DCI again, without knowing much of what others think. I think some readers might find this a unique way of seeing how an old-timer might feel about this wealth of stuff that’s brand-new to me. Overall, I don’t really like the fact that shows are still often unentertaining, unmelodic, rambling, obscure, and that there are too many huge props and synthesizers. I hate amplified extended storytelling and singing, and miss uniforms as opposed to “costumes”. I do like that you can amplify solos over the “loud parts” now, though. I’m also surprised at how much I enjoy the addition of trombones. There are a lot of really effective glissando parts, especially with the 2016 Blue Devils. Generally I still don’t like post-2008 BD, but they still put out a couple winners for me: 2012 and 2016. I don’t know why they can’t stick to playing the same tune for more than 16 measures and I think their “oddness” seems a little pretentious. That said, they’re probably the best musicians I’ve ever heard, truly virtuosic sometimes, as is Carolina Crown’s brass. (I know 2012 BD is the oddest, but I learned about dada in college, and to see and hear BD’s interpretation of it fascinating. I guess that means I probably should learn more about the meanings of their more recent shows, in BD’s defense.) The greatest shows of the “new era” to my eyes (why does nobody have killer drill anymore?) and ears would be 2016 Bluecoats, 2015 Cadets, 2015 Crown, 2016 Crown, 2016 Devils, 2013 Cadets, 2018 Boston, and 2019 Bluecoats, in no particular order. Crown ruined several otherwise amazing shows with narration and singing. 2018 Bluecoats, 2015 Bluecoats, 2014 Cadets, 2017 Cadets, and many others’ did, too. It’s sad to see the decline of great corps like the Cadets and Phantom. (But 2015’s Cadets were very 1990s-ish and fantastic for it. Best Cadets show since 1993.) I didn’t like 2016 Bluecoats’ show at first but have to come to consider it one of my all-time favorites. What time signature is that relentless Spanish song in, anyway, 13/8??? They actually made Pink Floyd work on the drum corps field, too. (They need to do the Pinkcoats for 2020 for sure.) They also made great use of their giant props that year, unlike their giant chairs later – pretty much like all the other corps with giant props. That cheesy wink thing was kinda cool though. Crown was amazing in 2016, too, taking that 1993 Star music in completely the opposite direction and telling an epic story with it successfully. I was practically hanging off the edge of my seat holding my breath to see how that show would end on my first viewing - a first for me. It’s too bad corps often play such difficult horn parts now that they usually can’t march while playing them, but BD and Crown are still amazing musicians. Crown managed impressively to march through a few ridiculously hard parts over the years, though. Also fantastic now is all the body choreography by the horn players in more shows now. 1993 Star was way ahead of their time. I know I personally never had the coordination to do any of that. It looks like my Cavies have been engaging in some “rebuilding” years, but 2019 looks like the beginning of a great corps coming back. But just say no to singing and cheesy electronic sound effects, guys. Some of their newer uniforms are really great I’m surprised to say. The men in green will always be my brothers and it’s exciting to see their new directions. Splooie! Santa Clara is generally excellent every year, too, but not enough so to make me comment on anything specific, other than maybe 2015’s Spark of Invention. Boston’s made some great strides in the last few years, their “SOS” production being my favorite show of 2018. It’s good to be literal sometimes; too many shows today have such obscure themes if any at all – just visual motifs. I don’t want to go on too long and I know I’ve been kinda rambling, but thought some people might be interested in what somebody who’s re-lost his “drum corps virginity” without tainting myself yet with today’s general opinions. I hope I haven’t said anything too inappropriate that might have offended anyone. One of my general impressions, though, is that every top 6 corps’ musicians are now musical virtuosos compared to anything from the 90s. And maybe despite what I’ve said about some shows, I really do love almost all of them to some degree or another and am thrilled to be back. I am very much looking to getting my 2019 blu-rays soon and watching much of 2020 live online. “Number 9” \ “Turn me on Deadman”

I was simply concerned. Anyone who is deriving pleasure from any problems the Cadets may be experiencing, is an ######## of the highest order.

Do Cadets really need to be on the defense and ahead of all the chatter on DCP? That seems to be the expectation by some. Do people expect a press release explaining the how’s and why’s of a remote camp? Is this their first camp/audition in Florida? Is it something they wanted to experiment with and knew they might not have a huge turnout? I have no doubt Cadets will come out with a full brass section. Perhaps they’ll be young and inexperienced but it will be a full line. Everyone needs to take a deep breath and calm down.

I love the Cadets and if they have to strip it down to the studs and come out great on the other side, I don’t care.

I’m comparing that in February not every corps is full. In fact come august not every corps is full

If someone was at camp and tells what they saw, how is that opinion? Prime example of why DCP has the reputation it has. You won’t find a more blunt force trauma honest person that Terri. Christ we love each other and still battle, usually to see who is more blunt force trauma inducing. the world is not out to get the Cadets. People wanted them to succeed in spite of Hop and got #### on for it. They still want them to succeed despite the myriad of Hop induced and non Hop induced. But yes people will have questions and some doubts, but that doesn’t make them haters. You want to see a corps that’s hated, look at BD for their amazing success. Yeah some people want to see the Cadets fail. But not everyone asking questions does.

I do know from friends on staff at the Cadets that the brass staff is not settling for members with lower levels of talent. They are being patient and not rushing to fill the brass line. The Cadets are determined to build a great brass line.

Don’t go and ruin DCP drama

I watched the alumni webinar last night. Denise Bonfiglio announced that the Cadets percussion and pit are full and all are contracted, the brass line has a few open spots and they gained a couple new members at the camp this weekend, and the guard is 50% (which is ahead of this time last season) contracted.

That’s what a mom who’d brought her son there told us. I think I’ll just skip drum corps camps from now on.

With all due respect, I have to agree. He was just passing along what he/she saw yesterday. Jim and I went today.

When a messenger wraps the message inside so many layers of ridiculous accusations against practically everyone that it severely damages the credibility of the message itself, it can do more harm than good to the victims. So if it is the victims you care about, I don’t think demeaning someone for expressing concerns about the messaging is such a good look, either.

You guys are reddit-famous:

Come on I need ammo for my DCAF column

The schedule spreadsheet has been updated to reflect: 1) addition of NJ/PA show for The Cavaliers; 2) updated show locations per DCI schedule; 3) new region-based color coding; 4) addition of Open Class tab.

As difficult as this might be for some people to read it’s certainly not what my expectations would be from a top 12 organization.

What's the difference between requiring them all to fly into Philly vs whatever FL airport? Airfare is airfare.

Even during a "mandatory" camp, there may be several mm excused, but less than 50 brass and only 6 tubas has to be concerning.

Once the drum corps is sliced off, YEA! can collapse and not take down the corps. The Cadets then start fresh and run a responsible million dollar drum corps like nearly all the rest, compete, win, and give a great experience. Just like SOOOOO many others in this activity. The corps has to show earnest ability and capacity to generate and pay out for costs to tour, just like every other corps on tour. Some say they'll have to put on - I say keep on - their adult pants and do like every other corps - find a way to survive, grow, and prosper. Here's a line: "Pfft... This... pfft... is the business... pfft... that we've chosen." We don't need to sit here and prod them, they know the tasks at hand better than almost anyone here. So many GREAT EDs sit behind the DCP wall of anonymity, right? Someone here took a cheap shot at calling the directors and leadership of DCI incompetent, while they sit behind a screen and lob crap at a serious discussion board. I give those brave enough to have broken this narcissist from the activity much more credit than to think they haven't thought four steps ahead of nearly all of us behind these anonymous keyboards.

I just have to get this off my chest: every time I see you post I think of this.

to be honest, a lot of people got so innundated by YEA requests, they tuned them out or did all they could to get off their various lists

What makes you believe a Cadets staff member would be forthcoming, and what makes you believe there are leading speculations? So before you question anyone’s credibility, let’s start with yours. Were you there! If so did you see and talk to either lifeisaround or Terri and her husband? If not then the only credible sources would be them.

You want Olympic judging? Aren’t there enough complaints about judging now?

Spoke to a Penn State connection. They were told the charges were dropped so... and then multiple face palm emojis came

My thoughts are that with all of the tumult in the past 2 years, my expectations are very low. I hope that the corps can get on firm financial and organizational ground. If they can achieve that in 2020 and stay in the Top 12 - that would be success in my book. Any more is icing.

Right now 6 of the top 12 including 3 of last years top six have brass openings

Do you have any details from other top 12 corps about camp attendance for remote camps, number of open spots, etc?

Someone who knows DCI better than me define a “camp”. We had them too in Sr corps and had to have a real good reason to miss any part.

They would require all brass members to travel to Florida? That can’t be right.

I think we've all been around drum corps long enough to know that camps are assigned as "mandatory" and then request after request arrive asking to be excused and the ideal/purpose of the rehearsal changes. With poorer turnout I doubt we'll see a Cadets "brass camp" in FL next year. Just a hunch Cadets brass are not full. They are announcing a "few" spots remain. I don't think "a few" means 30. However many corps have a "few spots" available right now. Crown for example has a few sop spots. There's a webinar on Thursday night - perhaps we'll get a public update on the spots available Cadets are clearly in rebuilding mode - and that's fine. The schedule will help. Several vets headed to BD, Crown & Boston from what I've heard Also - this day and age missing camps and asking for a pass is MUCH more common. I run restaurants - "callouts" and "requests off" are probably ten times as common among young people than missed-shifts were 15-20 years ago. Culture has changed frankly, and not in a positive way for dependability sake

Is perpetual hand-wringing a concern or an affliction? It. Was. A. Camp. It wasn't a full corps spring training. It's auditions for prospective members. How hard is that? Did anyone expect they'd fill the corps from FL? I'm sure they didn't.

I think they are struggling but I wish them the best.

I don't know, but we better have 5 pages assuming they aren't so that people have their chance to ##### about something they don't know about

Stripping down to studs seems unwise at this juncture.

I was focused on the actual abuse claims and information provided.

The messenger claims that the thread is full of GH apologists. They aren't working with reality.

Charges may have been dropped, but video existed and civil action is different than a criminal trial. I guess stranger things have happened. Wernher von Braun went from V2 rockets to strategic positions at NASA, but he had unique skills.

To quote from “Judgment At Nuremberg” - Are we going to do this again? By that I mean, are we going to look like we are covering it all up by going *poof* with posts? It sickens and angers me to read (reread mostly) the stuff Exitmusic posted. At the same time it’s a cautionary tale and should be mandatory reading in my opinion.

Oh so what? That someone reported that every brass player wasn't at a camp in Florida is now a concern? But all the other camps that people have reported about high turnouts are to be discounted? I'm sure MANY of you who have been in drum corps have been at "mandatory" camps where everyone has not been able to make it. Let's get real.

Depends on which organizations you’re comparing. I have no other information to go on than what I read here or occasionally in a message. Frankly I hope the Cadets move up not further down. Eventually we’ll see it for ourselves.

Drama and Schadenfruede.

Ask on the webinar Thursday

I think Brian Tuma’s advice may be worth heeding. I can think of a few reports from winter camps of a variety of corps where everything was rosy and the results in the summer were disappointing and tales of horrendous camps where everyone has been pleasantly surprised in June, July, and August. There is also another factor to keep in mind. Fifty kids at a camp in Florida on Presidents Day weekend, most likely means fifty kids within driving distance. Unless you buy your tickets in the fall, getting plane tickets from Northeast Airports to Florida on a long weekend is next to impossible. On Friday night I watched the news (I live outside of Boston) and there was a segment on people traveling to Florida for the school vacation/long weekend, after Christmas and Thanksgiving, this is the busiest weekend for trips to Florida. The more important questions would be “Did the fifty or so people at the camp have the talent needed to fill the open spots?” “Were relationships built this year with band directors in Florida this year that will ensure better attendance at future camps.”

I thought his post was observational. Not specifically negative.

Sooooo quick question, when the cadets separate does their debt follow?!? Because the 67K they owe dci should be accounted for plus the amount of other stuff they owe.... they need to be held accountable for all of this!

Just got mine yesterday..yay! Kudos to DCI for basically giving me 2 day Fed ex shipping even though I paid for standard ground. They were shipped Thursday night and I got them on Saturday in NJ 🙂 The discs are outstanding as always - just the annual heartbreaking cuts for licensing: this year its Crown's ballad, which is awful for those two flugel soloists who nailed it all year, and Crossmen, which is less jarring but still annoying if you know their show well from seeing it all summer or listening to the CD's. Camera work and sound are incredible though - can't praise Tom Blair and his crew enough again this year. He keeps nailing it every year. Great Job! I watched SCV, Cavies and Boston last night and was just blown away with the detail, the sound, etc.

All posts and posters who raise concerns must be attacked

So. Decided to check camp out today at Lakewood ranch... not sure if putting your camp in Florida then having less than 50 brass show up.... now, I don’t know if that’s 50 new brass players or not but... I don’t know if that’s a successful camp from a “top 12 organization” Ron, the assistant director(?) who’s below the director of ops(?) unfortunately had to do double duty of band director and try and run camp? Kind of(?) i wish some of yall were there to observe, that is all. Excited for this call and to see how they will have money to go on the road this year and at least remain on the same level of quality of the top 12!