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Am I imagining it or have you posted this like twenty or thirty times now just reworded it time? I'm pretty sure we understand your take on it lol

Fundraising email says Cadets will be using 24 "benches" as the only props in the show. During webinar design staff said show takes you to a "time and place". I keep thinking Bernsteins Mass/Chichester Psalms given the use of vocals they talk about. Any ideas, thought?

The uniforms were not meant to be reflective of cowboy attire, and I'm surprised that you're arguing from the angle that they were. I'll do my best to help you understand-- the design team for Crown over the last 3 years has clearly been using a template uniform whose color changes to match the mood or theme of the show. Some easy examples: red for hell, bright blue for sci-fi, and a dusty brown for the West. The color complimented the props, flags, and atmosphere of the story they were trying to tell. You seem to be arguing from the angle that the uniform was somehow a bad cowboy costume, which I can either interpret as you deliberately misrepresenting the corps to try to weasel your point in, or as you not having visited the eye doctor for the last several years (being that I assume you're a dinosaur, it's a 50/50 shot at which is the case). So, now we get into the meat of the conversation. Were Crown's uniforms "ineffective" when it came to portraying a wild west themed show? For that, we would have to compare their uniforms to others, and decide which would make more sense in that context. I'll make a simple chart for you so we can decide together. Which of the following is more effective in a "Wild West" themed show? Crown 2016 uniforms vs Crown 2015 uniforms vs Crown all-cream uniforms (circa 2012) vs Cadets M&G West Point uniforms vs The Academy's uniforms vs The Troopers' uniforms Hopefully you can follow my thought process in the selection of these uniforms for us to look at together. I first compare this year's uniform to last year's. They're both the same style with different colors. Did changing the color make the uniform more effective in this show? I argue that yes, it did. The dusty brown is much more reminiscent to an arid, western setting than blood red. I then compare this year's uniform to the "traditional look." Does the dust-colored costume work better in the context of the show than a monotone-cream band outfit? Personally, I think so, but if you feel like that's more western feel free to interject. Now we break into some more obvious ones. Obviously Cadets and Academy have very different uniforms, and I postulate that neither even have the capacity to do a Western show based on what they wear right now. You will insist that this is because I'm lacking in imagination, but we'll get to that in a bit. I threw in the Troopers because it seems like your argument is that "if the uniform REALLY fit the show, Crown would be dressed like cowboys, and that the only way for the uniform to fit the show is for these people to literally be dressed broadway style like cowboys." I think that's a silly argument, and I know you think so too, so why waste time and energy making it so that I have to refute it? I don't want to bother, but it's annoying that, in a conversation, you're constantly interjecting and putting things in other people's mouths that nobody is saying. You spent about 5 pages so far acting like people are saying things that they haven't. The whole crux of your argument is that "Crown did not dress like Cowboys and therefore their uniforms did not reflect their show theme." I think it's obvious that Crown tries to use color and minimal interjection to try to draw you into the story, and I think that's really cool. It's an effective strategy, and one that nobody has been complaining about for the last 3 years up till now. You further postulate that any uniform can be used for any show, with some imagination. I agree, but the effectiveness of that show is questionable. If I'm trying to make a show about the wild west, why would I use vibrant colors when I'm going for a more gritty angle? I wouldn't. It makes no sense. Every performing art that uses any visual elements whatsoever changes their costuming depending on their show. Dance, theater, all of them. There are only very rare exceptions (a la rockettes), and guess what? They put on pretty much the exact same show every single year because their military uniforms confine them to military movement. Yes, the rockettes could do a wild wild west show, but it wouldn't make much sense when they all look like a bunch of toy soldiers. I hope that this explanation of uniform colors, styles and their impact on show design has been helpful to you.

I think Jersey Surf is an example of a corps that is doing things right. I think the shows are well designed, and performed very well. I think the fact they start later than other corps shows what works best for the staff and members of the corps. I have found every one of their shows entertaining. Could they be improved if they started earlier in the year? Probably, but obviously that isn't what works best for them. It is nice to see a corps that isn't going broke, by trying whatever it takes to move up in the rankings. I would much rather see Surf performing for the next 50 years, than to see them go broke trying to make finals for a couple of seasons like so many other corps have done. And as a major fan of the activity, I am a little disappointed in the title of this thread. Why does Jersey Surf do so bad? I think Surf does a fantastic job. I think a much more appropriate title would be Why does Jersey Surf score so low? And i think part of it lies in the scoring problems that DCI has gotten into the last couple of decades. The judges don't quite know where to score corps like Surf and Pioneer. I brought this up in a thread a couple of years ago, and I think it is worth bringing up again. Surf and Pioneer usually place towards the bottom of World Class corps, but to me their scores don't add up. If you would have a show with only 3 corps, and those corps were Carolina Crown, Pioneer and Racine Scouts(3 corps that were in several competitions together during the course of the summer a couple of years ago, obviously Crown would win, Pio would be second and Racine would place 3rd. At the average show, Crown would beat Pioneer by 30 points, and Pioneer would beat Racine Scouts by about 20 points. but in reality if you look at what was put on the field, Pioneer should be scoring closer to Crown than it should be to Racine Scouts. I am not saying the Pioneer is anywhere near the level of Crown, but they should definitely be scoring closer to Crown than to Racine Scouts. So if the difference between Crown and Pioneer realistically should be 30 points then Pioneer should be 40 points ahead of Racine Scouts. So in my opinion corps like Pioneer and Jersey Surf really end up suffering in the scoring column. Just my opinion, but I think Pioneer and Surf along with other smaller corps kind of get screwed over in the long run from the judges. The placements may even be right as there are years where several Open Class corps are better than Surf or Pioneer, but the scoring margins are definitely not accurate. And that is no different than when Pioneer and Surf were Open Class/DII/III and beat several World Class/DI corps at finals week. I love the way these corps just focus on the young performers, and don't always have to worry where they will end up placement wise. If more corps had focused on this, we would probably have closer to 50 corps performing in Indy during finals week.

As a parent to a returning Surf MM, I can report that the corps has alot more MMs coming back this year, so hopefully that will provide some more backbone. The show is shaping up to be really interesting and more challenging than in years past. Surf does start later than most corps (though by the time of move ins, they are rehearsing every weekend). They had one free day last summer (San Antonio) and a few laundry half days - that's it. They also have a small budget, which impacts general effect - no big ramps or annual uniform changes here. But, they do have the best food in DCI! My MM claims that the open class corps tend to score better at finals because they are judged all summer on a different scale, so when they get to finals they are competing on a blank slate. The MMs definitely wish they were scoring higher and not making semis last year was pretty hard on them. I don't think the show, though pretty good, resonated. Stay tuned for this year - definitely more contemporary.

I'm feeling church pews, flags of stained glass colors, chanting, choirs, brass spectacular... getting giddy as a school girl.

Cadets should just go commando. That would allow for freer movement but the shako is still bulky. I'll get back to you on this...

Thanks to all for your replies. We're looking now to modify our plan to a one-week stint between the July 12th show in Atlanta and the July 20th show in Dallas ( North Denton). And then fly home from Dallas after serving for a week. That would take us to Illinois, to Broken Arrow,Ok, and then to Dallas, Then maybe rejoining the Corps for the last week of the season for our second week of service rolling into Indy.

If you are worried about scores, study the caption recaps Jersey Surf is not bad, they have a different philosophy and therefor a different tour model, different seasonal structure and they do achieve their different goals. See also Pioneer. These corps along with others and Open Class are the backbone of DCI as they are a gateway to the activity, providing opportunities to many that may not have otherwise been able to march and preparing them for whatever sort of DCI career they want. Much respect to those corps that do the work, put in the passion but don’t get the love or the butts in the seat.

Unity would be nice. Unitards, not so much.

First of all, you are to be complimented for the very suggestion that you would like to offer your volunteer services to a Corps. All these Corps can not exist without the self sacrifice of potential volunteers such as yourself and your wife willing to freely offer their time and energy to help out where and when they can. The advice given above by posters is good advice, imo. To add something else, I would suggest going on a limited basis at first to try things out. Perhaps just a day or two.. Corps can tell you what things they could use help on, and you and your wife can see what skills, or duties, seem a good fit for you both. If you do not bite off more than you can chew at first, you are more than likely to want to do it again, or perhaps expand on the time and energy as you become more accustomed to the role of volunteers. Believe me when I tell you, that there is no such thing as not giving enough time in your volunteering efforts, as although Corps appreciate lots of time and energy from their volunteers, there is never too little that they do not really appreciate as well. Every little bit helps. Good luck to your Corps, and good luck and thank you for your willingness to help out as volunteers to your Corps.

Listening through some corps reps for 2017, I'm so excited about Both Sides Now, such a fantastic song I think will translate very effectively to the field.

We're almost there people! Will be here before we know it, I know after spring break (mine was last week) the rest of the school year flies by and teaching seems to be accelerating that process ten fold. Something tells me we are in for another year of really fun shows top to bottom...

Although I am restrained with my emotions, I have to admit this sounds exciting if this is what they're doing.

Set an appointment with their receptionist, they'll X-Ray your bad tooth first, then advise you of your options.

Sounds like a show concept made in Heaven.

Sounds like a challenge that would be greatly rewarded. Crown would be able to pull it off. And some other elite corps. I could be wrong, but I can't recall any top corps playing his work. And if October is over played, what does that make Simple Gifts, Pines of Rome, Medea.....

What I wouldn't give to hear the Cadets play that show note for note. Colts 1995 was pretty good too!

Received the same email. Is it so effing difficult to spell Aaron Copland's last name correctly?!?!? (with regard to C2, not Cadets).

Nobody needs to get over themselves.... all these corps have the rights to arrange at this point, they are probably still working on sync and performance rights. It's a really complicated situation and as more companies that deal with rights and licensing issues become aware of the the marching arts they have to legally define and redefine stuff that didn't need to be addressed before. There was a time where everyone thought the rights to arrange were also the same as the rights to perform and it's just getting more difficult to get it done. Cadets are an example of that, George has said multiple times that he wants to get the show out there but he just can't do it yet. We're such an integrated world now so you can't fly under the radar, every little thing needs to be approved and now with DCI broadcasts, Clash of the Corps, Fan Network, etc, all that needs to be cleared. Numbers of viewers, potential size of audience, viral reach, it all matters now. Secondly, of those Open Class corps some of them are just titles, which doesn't really mean anything. Of the corps that released repertoire some of them are just doing original music. No hurdles to clear there. I would say a few of those corps probably prematurely announced their selections without all the clearances probably as a way to help gain membership. I'm sure without a doubt that most of these corps have their press release or video ready to go and are just waiting until they can release it. Drum corps now-a-days are companies, they have a plan, a schedule and timelines. Crossmen are already learning drill they still haven't told their members what the show is. The members have a clue but they're not telling them until they can. Last year, I believe it was the Bluecoats who didn't put any titles on top of their music, full show in hand, not a single idea what the music really was. It's just what it is now. Remember when we had to read Drum Corps World to find out what the shows were. Patience. lol.

Well for those wondering.

Exactly!!! ....OPEN Class corps don't seen to have a problem...the World Class corps seriously need to get over themselves and their anouncements IMO...LOL 7th Regiment - Title Arsenal - Rep The Battalion - Title Guardians - Title/Rep Heat Wave - Title/Rep Incognito - Title/Rep Music City - Title/Rep River City Rhythm - Title/Rep Southwind - Title/Rep Spartans - Title Watchmen - Title

Dude Seriously? Freaking AMAZballs composer.

I've attended shows hosted by Cadets and have sat in Cadet blocks in Atlanta and Allentown and I will have to say the loyalty and love of the corps is palpable. There were a few alums in Allentown who were less than thrilled about uniform changes in 2015 and made their feelings known, but even then there was love for the corps. Part of it is probably the drum corps experience. I am a die hard fan and I know my history, stats, repertoires, etc better than more than a few who marched, but I never marched so I do not know the joys and disappointments of DCI competition, what it is like to be in finals, the tour experience, or the lifelong bond. As an outsider looking in, it has to create a certain sentiment that cannot be matched or taken away. It also has to be nurtured. In 2012 I attended the last TOC show Cadets hosted at MetLife Stadium. There was a two hour rain delay and I was probably the only non Cadet in the section where I waited for the rain to stop. No one cared that the show was delayed. It was like a family reunion. Volunteers were also walking around, asking people to be patient, and thanked them for attending the show. One asked when I when I marched, and when I said I never marched, I was asked what my favorite Cadets show was (1980) and was introduced to someone who marched that year. If I had been a Cadet who had been away for a while, I would have been reconnected with the corps. Perhaps I would have been hit up for a donation too, but that's another story. I know Boston Crusaders does an excellent job at connecting alums and marching members and works at making everyone feel like family at home shows. When Madison celebrated 75 years in 2013 and alums stood up in Indy and sang "You'll Never Walk Alone" it was amazing. Cavies seems to have this loyalty as well. In short, I think the experience creates the bond and loyalty, but often it is nurtured by the corps.

So I was able to see some clips of the hornline playing some excerpts today. Boy they are sounding incredible. I remember being at one of the rehearsals last year and seeing the instructors begging them to give more volume but it is certainly coming easily to them this year. Even with the huge rise in difficulty, they are pulling it off with ease and overall, especially in the trumpet section (which seemed to be a weak link for the hornline last year IMO). Don't be shocked if they not only maintain placement, but rise multiple spots as well. They are SURGING.

A few DCA corps have been in the "no headgear" camp over the years... Empire Statesmen, Govenaires, and S.F. Renegades (when the Statesmen and Renegades were still around, obviously). I think it depends on the corps and its show style as to whether the "no headgear" thing works, or whether it's best for a corps to keep some sort of head covering. IMO, it worked fine for all three of those DCA corps. Horses for courses. LOL.

Im going to guess they will insert an abundance of color this year. For most of last season...the show might as well been titled 50 Shades of Bleh

Or "Our Town"....certainly a Cadet-ish throw back type show brought to 2017

Paging the 1993 Bushwackers... paging the 1993 Bushwackers...

It's really nice to spend most of that last week in one location and all the excitement of hopefully three more shows. My only last week as a volunteer was in 2015 with Boston as the chase driver. Sometime on Wednesday it was decided that another head mic was needed for the guard singer. I left Carmel, IN, at 9AM to drive up to the Fort Wayne area, locate the manufacturer, pick up the gear that had been ordered, and oh yeah, get back by 3PM when we leave for the Oil Can. I told the on field "adult" in charge of working the mic and other electronic equipment during the show to get out of the SUV. There was no guarantee that we would be back in time and if "Murphy" rears his ugly head, who's going to work his board? Seven P's people. Arrived back at 3:10PM with no speeding tickets. (Then us in the chase vehicle had to take the wrath of the parking lot supervisor since the corps showed up around an hour early.)

There will be no hyperbole this season-only genuflection (or genuflexion if you prefer the French derivation).

the benches are the only props "on the field" - there are end zone and back field props planned from what I've heard I know the music, they'll be announcing it pretty soon and you should like it

or maybe the Color Purple? hmmmm Sunday in the Park with George Simple Gifts

Wonder if they'll do a crown?

Wow-hadn't looked at that class in a while, now it's getting absurd in World Class. At one point I was trying to be understanding, but after your post, it's hard to support the reasoning.

Some Corps will place higher than 2016 Some Corps will place lower than 2016 Some Corps will place about the same as 2016

nm

I think you need to look at the particulars of how each corps provides the DCI experience to the marching members and what their overall goals are. I do not think that Surf thinks they are doing "badly", at least I hope not. I doubt any show history is holding them down. Corps Director Bob Jacobs is one of the most respected people in DCI. He runs a very special organization.

I don't know how it works with the corps you are involved with, but I know with many corps the last week of tour is a popular one. The volunteer spots usually fill up pretty quick. So my unsolicited advice to you is to firm up your plans as soon as you can, and make your availability known to your corps.

I sure don't know the specifics of their low scores, but I do know a general principle: Music played with joy and passion will always be received well. Perhaps Jersey Surf's MM's and staff have gotten tense and apprehensive when they perform because of their past lower placement. If that's true, then my advice is to go back to the joy of music, the joy of the brother-sisterhood, and the opportunity to bring joy to the audience. If you look up Wikipedia pages for the top corps, MOST OF THEM HAD YEARS OF LOW PLACEMENTS, LOW SCORES. So I just want to say to the member/staff/volunteers of 2017 Jersey Surf - I'm for you, I'm not against you, I look forward to hearing and seeing your show and most of all, I hope you have great fun and joy in producing it. If you do, I will be whooping and cheering for you! And so will a lot of other people. May God bless you this year and provide everything you need to accomplish your purposes, your plans, your goals.

Back up on the second page of this thread I posted a link to an interview their director did. In that interview he discussed the storyline, comes from a children's book about being bored in school I think.

That's usually the best part about coming back "home". Sometimes, even if you do not have your own family attending the shows, the alum usually make a marcher feel like his or her family is there. I've always looked forward to the home shows at Cadets specifically for that reason.

what worked then doesn't necessarily work now the "cow" panel with "beef!" wouldn't work now either

20 years ago

Lol please look up Cadets 1996.

Ray Charles could see what's coming next.

I don't think Dave was trying to say the Cadets are better than other corps/organizations. I think he was just talking about The Cadets and our history/loyalty. I'm sure the Scouts, BAC, Cavies, and young corps like SCV, BD,(j/k) etc...are pretty much the same in that regard.

You're defining the way it is in countless organizations, drum corps or otherwise.

Tease