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Ladies and Gentlemen, Exhibit A in the "worst change in drum corps" thread: the internet. Here's someone who has seen zero performances from a drum corps season that is 2.5/3 months away from even beginning. There have been very few public recordings from corps camps released, and roughly HALF of the WC corps have made zero announcement regarding their show theme and/or rep. There have certainly been zero videos showing visual design. Yet here we have someone astute enough to already form an opinion, good or bad, about show designs for the upcoming season. Absolutely amazing...

Wow, the entitled consumer. WTF ever happened to going to a show with no idea what you were in for. You're not buying a car for Christ sake.

10 year anniversary, new uniforms and great show music! How well do you see them doing this year?

Epic, really? Fail (only talking about the OP title's use of Epic, not the Cadets, trailer or show) OK kids, catch me up, what’s this year’s hot word that will be beaten into the ground?

Other than one or two shows that have made me raise an eyebrow, I have yet to really see a show that has me wanting to drop $120 for tickets to take my family to see a drum corps show this season. You would figure that since the economy is in the crapper, and because people will be spending less money going to shows, that the designers/corps could figure out a way to market themselves a little better. Wait a minute, this is drum corps, everything has to be dark and evil. Never mind, carry on.

From lurking the past few days and seeing the main theme of the threads, I'm sure you guys are gonna love this. I was in marching band for 4 years at a HS in Alabama and now I'm going to college for finance. I marched Bass Guitar in the pit and I'm big into blues and jazz bass. I gig with a bluesy folksy band (think Sufjan Stevens + Dave Matthews Band + RHCP) and did bass and a little banjo and harmonica. Anywho, I've been doing some jazz combo stuff with some music majors and one of them introduced me to DCI. I'm pretty awestruck. I mean, Alabama had marching bands like Hoover that did BoA stuff but I didn't ever see anything more intense than that. So I'm hooked. Bought my Fan Network subscription this morning and haven't really left my computer monitor all day. I know they don't place very well but I'm really digging the way Teal Sound is so out of left field with their stuff. Spirit sounds like a lot of fun, enjoyed hearing an arrangement of Dust in the Wind on the field that isn't some AA Alabama marching band. And the Cadets are stealing my heart, This I Believe was goosebump city. I really wanna march Bass for a corps next summer, so I can get the cash together to make a legit attempt at it. My question is, what corps are using basses in the pit? I noticed they're pretty new because I didn't see them in the 07 or 08 videos and I still don't see them in some of the Top 12's pits. So what corps are set on basses? Also, is there any place I can happen to find some audition material/warmups/music that these guys are playing? I'm pretty confident in my ability but I wanna see what I'm getting myself into. If I'm gonna sit there playing nothing but little dinky walking lines or the occasional syncopated bass line, then I'm not sure if it'll totally be worth my time. But if I'm getting into some serious literature, I am all in to that. And does anyone know how many show up for auditions on bass? I've not seen more than 1 bass in the pit, so I'm sure it's pretty competitive right? And one last question, do they give you your bass for the summer or am I expected to bring mine? I love my Fender Jazz, but a summer of corps sounds like it'd beat it up pretty bad. Looking forward to this summer and seeing my first live show!

Lance....just a request....the "Haters" expression/term....can we drop that in 2011? Let's leave that in the dust somewhere in 2010....

Yes, that's true for 1994 (as I clearly stated): that was a "part-time" aux. percussion pod that was used at times but not the entire product. The "full-time" front ensemble was exactly where I said it was: about 5-10 yards back of the front side-line area (not the back sideline). Tarpon Springs does indeed have a great percussion section: no doubt about it. They also have no battery: basically they are HIGHLY unique in many aspects of the marching world. As for your team you taught: I never said it was impossible: I said it was impractical. Marching Bands rehearse (typically) every day in class (on the field), a few extra evening and/or weekend rehearsals, etc. Drum corps don't have that luxury: they move in late spring, tour early summer, etc. By the time they move in and have all-day/every-day rehearsals on the field there is hardly enough time to teach their "normal" (pit in front, brass/percussion on field) shows bare-bones and presentable. Adding to the hassle is very not practical. Nah: I was just shown that not only are you stubborn, myopic, and refusing to understand logic, I was PROVEN CORRECT (technically, acoustic physics was proven correct long before I was on this earth). You named TWO groups in the history of band who have had a pit back field once or twice in their history, yet to this day they are back to "traditional" effects of the pit in the front. On my side of this (pointless) debate, I have the entire history of World Class Finalist drum corps. If you think this is such a viable option, then why has no World Class corps ever put their entire front ensemble on the back sideline in the history of the activity? In a world where "anything that CAN be done will be attempted," this is an idea that never has come to fruition, let alone "proven it can and does work." But I understand your need to (constantly) argue against amping, electronics, and the like. You don't like it and feel the need to constantly "prove" to all that it's unnecessary: that's a common trait in human beings (for the same reason someone will argue that their switching to an iPhone after several years of using an Android phone: because they 'bought into' one thing that not everyone agrees with and they will feel the need to validate my opinions). Here, I'll help you feel better: you win DCP. My explanation of acoustic physics, and presentation of the history of percussion in DCI doesn't matter because you once taught some local band that had a pit on the back sidelines. I'm wrong. Satisfied?

I think 12th place is up for grabs this year. If they can build on last year then they must be in with a chance of making finals for the 1st time ever.

The last few pages of this thread have wandered so far off topic, it reminds me of this excerpt from a famous Monty Python bit called "The Argument Sketch": The Cast: M= Man Looking for an Argument (Michael Palin) A= The Arguer (John Cleese) M: (knock knock) A: Come in. M: Ah, Is this the right room for an argument? A: I told you once. M: No you haven't. A: Yes I have. M: When? A: Just now. M: No you didn't. A: Yes I did. M: You didn't A: I did! M: You didn't! A: I'm telling you I did! M: You did not!! A: Oh, I'm sorry, just one moment. Is this a five minute argument or the full half hour? M: Oh, just the five minutes. A: Ah, thank you. Anyway, I did. M: You most certainly did not. A: Look, let's get this thing clear; I quite definitely told you. M: No you did not. A: Yes I did. M: No you didn't. A: Yes I did. M: No you didn't. A: Yes I did. M: No you didn't. A: Yes I did. M: You didn't. A: Did. M: Oh look, this isn't an argument. A: Yes it is. M: No it isn't. It's just contradiction. A: No it isn't. M: It is! A: It is not. M: Look, you just contradicted me. A: I did not. M: Oh you did!! A: No, no, no. M: You did just then. A: Nonsense! M: Oh, this is futile! A: No it isn't. M: I came here for a good argument. A: No you didn't; no, you came here for an argument. M: An argument isn't just contradiction. A: It can be. M: No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition. A: No it isn't. M: Yes it is! It's not just contradiction. A: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position. M: Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.' A: Yes it is! M: No it isn't! - - -

So you don't understand how a microphone works. Got it. When you play something into a microphone, the microphone takes whatever sound you create and amplifies it by however much the setting on the amplifier tells it to, basically creating a consistent boost in volume regardless of what you do, meaning that if you play something very loud, it will be even louder. If you play something very softly however, the difference in sound without the microphone stays consistent through the amplifier. Yes, the soft sound will be slightly louder, but the boost in volume stays the same. That means that the performer is still in control of his or her dynamics. If levels are set well, then performers should have no problem creating dynamic contrast through the amplifiers. In short, how hard you hit the bars means exactly the same as it did before. All the amps do is provide a consistent boost to all dynamics, allowing you to actually play piano when appropriate, and still be heard, and also play a full relaxed forte, and have a presence in when the brass line kicks it into high gear. As for someone's assertion that the performer had no idea whether or not they were in balance because of the amplifiers, they didn't before amplifiers either. Nobody on the field knows what the balance sounds like in the stands, because they aren't in the stands. They just trust their staff to train them to play the correct dynamics.

Give me an example of that happening, because I've never heard it. You'd have to have those speakers pretty cranked to cover up a 60 person brassline. Now if you want to talk about the synthesizers, then I'm with you. I'm not a fan, and sometimes they do cover up the entire ensemble, but the mic'ed mallet instruments, yeah, that's just not happening.

The one with the Beaver that Ward is so hard on ?

True enough. But I ask you... what's the difference between this poster's opinion here in March on shows that arn't announced yet, and prediction threads made around Christmas or earlier on shows not announced yet, and where camps havn't even started ? I don't see much of a difference here, and near as I can tell, posters give their opinion with placement predictions, but with no animus, ridicule, nor attack, when they give them...and as it should be too, imo.

Is everyone in the corps wearing the same thing? Then it's a uniform. Hence the word, uniform. Doesn't matter if it's an Adidas track-suit for a Russian Mob field show. The fact that it has diverged from its military roots is irrelevant.

If finals were a week later….the heat wave would’ve passed and the dome could have been opened for quarters and beautiful music would have gushed out into the high heavens where is would have reached a plane full of UN delegates who would have been so inspired….that by now we’d have world peace, ended hunger and drum corps would be bigger than Football (American and European combined) and all the DCI corps, marchers and staff would be treated like royalty, given gobs of cash, private islands, reality TV shows and live happily ever after… If you’re going to dream, dream big !

I'm STILL wet!

Blue Devils didn't have as much to clean as everyone else.... ya don't say I think the best chance of a switch would have been Boston/Scouts, not SCV/BS. It's true to say Vanguard were a little flat on finals night. However, no reason to think that would have happened again 1 week later.

If DCI wants more butts in the seats...they have to figure out how to get a real buzz going during the off season. A buzz so strong that has fans counting down the minutes for the season to start. You know....meaningful corps camp updates...with tidbits of show music thrown in (even if its midi files). I remember back in late 2003 and 2004 when SCV was posting monthly updates of their 2004 production. I couldn't wait to see/hear their full show. And you know what...SCV 2004 was a DCI finals crowd favorite that season. Think of movie previews. They are designed to inspire you to attend movies. DCI needs to engage/inspire the fans more during the off season.

I agree with you that Teal's core mission is to try and be an innovator within the activity. I just don't think they do it quite well enough yet to reap the rewards of the inherent "risk." I think they're betting that guitars/basses are the inevitable future of drum corps and it marries well with their rock-driven shows of the past like MeTealica. The only problem is that when BD, Cavies, or Cadets finally do a show centered around distortion guitars or heavy synth they're still going to look like the innovators. Teal will say, "yeah but we did first before it was cool or popular." And everyone else will say, "who cares?" Still, you have to give them credit for carving out their own niche in an area that just recently became legal. A worthy adversary. I just think it's pandering to the untapped American Idol audience for drum corps. The purists think that drum by itself if enough to sell to a general audience. Well, not if we keep cutting music education while the recording industry is barfing up formulaic, saccerin sweet, mediocre, crap. The next thing you know, we'll have 3.5 minute-long shows, LED light-uniforms (like in the superbowl half-time), fireworks, holograms, and monster-trucks will be legal, and music will only be composed of notes from a single pentatonic scale - probably Bb since that's what most of them play in anyways. :) I still don't think they're a band. It seems like you're just trying to be dickish on that one.

While we're at it, I'm not a fan of 2015 either. Pretty unimpressive season all around I agree. I think existing drum corps fans probably have an idea of what to expect from a show; i.e. I don't think too many people make their ticket-purchasing decisions based purely on the repertoire that year. I imagine more practical concerns like scheduling, $$$, etc are what come into play. However, as a strategy to draw in new fans, it would work a lot better if you could tell people "hey, come to this show and you'll get to hear corps play x, y, and z", rather than "hey, come to this show and you'll get to hear corps play.... something!".

bitd (way back when) announcements were made in June after May long weekend camps and shows you'd see early July were 'revised' by August; so when you go to the next show, surprise!

funny how I could hear pits at the top in Buffalo in 01 on thursday and be in the 9th row at finals and not have them blowing me out of my seat covering stuff up. Oh and they weren't all beating the crap out of the equipment. You want to amp, fine. get the balance and right and judges, grow a set and call out balance issues. few venues DCI goes to every year are equal to the Thunder Dome chosen for finals, yet people run all summer like it's Lucas Echo, and in many small stadiums you get blown out of the water because you dont have more than a 100 level to choose from for seating

first rule about fight club, dont talk about fight club

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First let me say welcome. Some of the people here may seem grouchy about the subject you are bringing up but don't let that bother you. As far as auditioning for a corps goes, I'm not sure who (if anyone) is using a bass player in their pit. BUT I am good friends with someone on staff at Teal Sound and I'd be more than happy to get in touch with him for ya. Send me a PM and we can discuss this further!

Doubtful I often go to the box office to avoid convenience fees and then am met with a box office fee which is still often less. I'm buying tickets at the box office this weekend because for a $29 dollar GA ticket has a $13.50 convenience fee and only a $2 box office fee and Im to pick up 5 extra tickets for my friends whom Ill charge a $10 CowFee, saving them $1.50 per ticket but hey, thats what friends are for…or maybe Ill just charge them cost and make them buy me a drink, which there could be over $10, depending on what Im in the Mooood for True story, bought 6 tickets at the box office, paid $12 in box office fees and a few bucks for parking then the show was canceled so I had to go back to the box office (paid for parking again) and they kept the box office fee. Yeah I got to pay to go out of my way,twice... and park 2 times and still get nothing...…at least the box office person admitted it was lame I think I'll just go back to getting on the list

Jimmy's place in most cities is a tourist trap, imo.... inflated prices for the food and drink.

Ditto. I think the changeable uniform concept is genius.

1. Academy: Little Fugue(Bach) + Lux Aurumque(Whitacre) + Lollapalooza(John Adams) = Potential top 12 show 2. Blue Devils: I'm friends with a tech over there and he has been telling me that their show this year will be entertaining to everyone and that people won't walk out on their performances this year... 3. Phantom Regiment: Elsa's Procession to the Cathedrial(Wagner) is one of my favorite pieces.

You missed the fine print: "8 seconds' worth of La Suerte de Los Tontos"

Or anywhere else, for that matter.

I agree with what he said. Cavies could have been a first place show. Coats couldn't have been any better then third, guard was lacking.

i'll get you for that.

Is that a result of a mid-life crisis? If so I know what to look out for when I get old.

I have to tell you however... The country as a whole was MUCH MUCH happier when the salespeople ran things. It seems things have been turned over to the CPA's of the world who have ZERO saavy when it comes to making people good about what they pay for ANYTHING... EXAMPLES: 1) Additional baggage fees at the Airlines. Instead of just charging EVERYONE an additional $1.50 per bag in their ticket without telling them you just raise the price $1.50 and all is handled... But what the CPS's do is shove up the YOUKNOWWHAT of the public that you have to pay an additional $25.00 for your bag... X number of dollars for your snack or beverage etc. It is pretty stupid actually. 2) Convenience fees for ticket purchases... It should just be built into the price rather than once again shoving it up the YOUKNOWWHAT of the public... People react better when nothing is forced up their YOUKNOWWHAT and then pointed out to them just how far!

34 years as a band director so I'm burned out on NOISE Big Band Jazz is my cup of tea but like alot of classical Non-music Sarcasm as an artform Model Railroader....big time Travel by Amtrak Hanging out in railyards Private Varnish I become aroused by the sight of E units pulling 6 or more smoothside passenger cars Urban exploration ( going where no one is supposed to go ) National parks creole cooking

I usually enjoy both of my jobs, teaching a band/indoor program, judging and administrating in a local circuit. I live to spend time with my family, I like any music but rap, country and drum corps with synths , big into baseball, football pro and college, college hoops and hockey. i read a ton, I'm a huge Star Wars geek as well as a mafia buff, and yes, I'll admit to being a long time pro wrestling fan. i covered the major ones

Cadets still would have beaten Crown.

It would be nice to know what this below the line fee is really for. Perhaps they should just bundle that into the purchase price? Don't worry, this is happening in everything from Cable bills and cellphone to your local water bill. It's a way to charge more while still acting like you're giving value.

Corpsreps has a small group of updaters and a number of sources for new season information. They generally tend to be correct on their listings, and update as the corps do throughout the offseason. Mike

Did my comment sound sarcastic? There was no intention for it. I absolutely loved the Blue Stars when they had the split Dark Blue and White! Great affect from up top! If they are as innovative with this "possible" uniform choice as they were in 2005, we may have another great season for the Cadets! (NO SARCASM HERE...seriously)

A brief continuation and commentary, for what it's worth. First, regarding Teal Sound last year: The corps on the field played well. Maybe even well enough to be 18th. (Maybe not.) The electronics and "non-traditional" instruments sat squarely on TOP of the ensemble sound, and were a distraction. Good performance but poor balance/blend, and questionable choices on tone distortion, with a sound system that was "okay" will always result in "that's kinda cool, but I'm not stepping out of my comfort zone with scoring as a judge". It has to be done professionally. While electronics may be relatively new to drum corps, they are not new to anyone's ears. We know when it sounds good, and when it does not. We've been listening to a blend of acoustic and electronic music literally since the day we were born. A friend of mine reminded me of something Don Angelica once said: "Just because we borrow from all the other performing arts doesn't mean we do any of them particularly well." To that end, Teal Sound is working on a more professional-sounding blend of electronic, acoustic and non-traditional instrumentation. The last couple of years can be considered an experiment, with lesson learned, and new directions implied. It's not that judges don't have "guts". . . I have a great many friends in the judging community, and that is not something a single individual lacks, when you have to make decisions every single night of the summer. The corps have to be willing to hear and see things, and then figure out why a particular judge may have said something. It's detective work, which requires an honest, open self-evaluation sans ego. Secondly, regarding the judging of individual performance on non-traditional instruments in drum corps: It is my understanding that at this time, the same judge who evaluates the pit (field percussion) is responsible for evaluating individual achievement from non-traditional instruments. A synth is not so different from any other keyboard instrument, except in this way. There cannot be an evaluation of technique; only the criteria "does it sound good". For some that may be too vague. But consider this. Any technique is valid. What we do in drum corps is try to align techniques of individuals when they are playing in a section of other like-instruments (e.g. snare line, baritone line, etc.) But how many synths do you compare for matched technical achievement? For some, this will not be an adequate answer. I get it. So. . . Here's the very real, plain and simple truth. The ability to judge the latest technological and instrumental changes is not fully realized yet. Training and discussions happen. A parallel from worlds we've already been to in our past: in 1980, Santa Clara Vanguard came out with ground-breaking drill, which didn't fit the vocabulary of the judging sheets at the time. They were writing and performing outside the box. It took a few years for the system to catch up, which began with the introduction of achievement build-up captions in some areas (not all) in 1984. Another parallel: Dance. Lots of corps are credited with introducing elements of dance as far back as the 50's from what I can tell. In the DCI era, Santa Clara doing the Bottle Dance, the Bridgemen giving us a little "street" dance, Blue Devils with their sleek body work and feather dances from 1981 - 1984, Madison Scouts giving us the masculine interpretation of Gene Kelly and Broadway type foot-work while spinning rifles, and finally the highlight of the 80's Dance movement, Spirit of Atlanta, who had begun to work on dance probably as early as 1980 during "Sweet Georgia Brown", but defined Dance as a legitimate form of expression in drum corps. From there it steam-rolled. . . Phantom Regiment's work with ballet in the late 80's, solo dancers (again with ballet) in Garfield Cadet's 1987 "Appalachian Spring Suite", Dutch Boy's Vegas Dancers. . . even the goofy, fun version of African Break Dancing by the Velvet Knights in 1988 and the 1995 Madison Scouts in "Malaga" with the bull-fighter dance. Should I mention how similar the Phantom Regiment's halt position is to Ballet's 4th position? (Pardon the longest run-on sentence with no conclusion in recent memory.) The point I will make with this is that the vocabulary and training of the judging system, the judges themselves were not ready to properly evaluate what they were being presented with. We tried. Didn't work. So, redesign the sheets, train the judges in vocabulary, teach them to recognize achievement. It takes time. Same with non-traditional instruments today. An important thing to know, is that a guitar player gets no more or less credit than any other individual from a field music standpoint. And for those corps that choose to highlight guitars, etc., it is no different that evaluating a show that is built around a great soloist. Pacing, exposure, expression, variety, etc., are all factors. It is not enough to simply show up and plug something in. Anyway, I'm sure this has wandered long enough. Sufficed to say that drum corps evaluation evolves, just as the drum corps performances do. They will always be a step behind, because it takes time to learn something new. All for now -- gotta get back to actually working. best, Chuck Naffier

time out. last year people at the box could communicate with the field. oh wait that didnt work. so Bluecoats rolled out their new toy and tried it semis night....and that was their worst balance of the week in Indy. yeah, I'm sold this too shall work justification for every change since the first speaker rolled out to a field has been shot to hell every single time. I will say this tho...at outdoor venues it has gotten better. The problem is that 5 of the biggest shows of the year are not outside. anyone see a connection there?

I used Charlie in jest. however if the comments were truly inept, I would have used bi-winning. But, the thread is still young guess what...go look on any forum of any kind: you will always have that which you complain about

You and I share the same sentiment.

I think so, on the website it says the logo contest is going until March 27th.

SICK. I'm also DESPERATELY hoping they play this piece. The only thing that could beat Joshua Bell is sick-nasty hornline. And here's hoping what they showed at the end isn't the logo they chose?

Definitely Crossmen. This corps is known for it's unique swag and vibe, their "groove" if you will. And it's coming back, more than ever, through their 2011 show. I'm so excited to see how they do!

Teal Sound will continue to make progress and steady growth.