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Two words... Nancy Kerrigan

You can explain it anyway you want. The fact is, it wasnt nesceassary when all the greatest, epic shows of all time were presented and since its inception, no "greatest shows of all time" have been created or enhanced by electronics...they have created more headaches than highlights, have not altered playing technique, kept costs down, brought new members in, or created more fans. Out on the football field the acoustic version of drum corps is what always has worked best. Evolution and change are fine, but not for the sake of satisfying ones ego at the expense of the product, the members experience, or the fans enjoymnet. Geoffrey

I'm going to see if I can post from the show and maybe post pictures. First time I've tried this on a smartphone, so no promises.

Design captions scare me – I don’t like putting the staff on the sheets Not a fan of comp and rep and don’t like the way they show up now Maybe they will fix this To me, bad design is giving a corps a show that they can not successfully perform. A show that is too difficult and looks/sounds like slop at the end of the year. You need to design to the corps you have and that is not taken into account now In many ways, the tick system addressed this and put the points back on the field with the ‘kids’ (shameless emotionalism calling marchers kids there) If they account for that, than a corps like Pioneer should be able to match Blue Devils in 2 design captions but we all know the sheets won’t show up like that…it would kill the top corps lock on the top slots and really, staffs stick around forever so rewarding staff on the sheets will make placements stale and make the top corps with the top designers even more top-heavy who are we really rewarding in this so called educational youth activity? I dare DCI to do the right thing -

You just reached into my brain and stated exactly how I feel. A few additional thoughts: 1. I was looking at recaps the other night. XYZ was judging. Didn't she judge the corps I was in, in like 1980? Really? She must be like 80? 2. This is our new car, because our old one was, well, old. And it didn't work very well. But this new one is really great and you're going to love it. We've worked on it for over a year now. Yep, the same people that created our old car are building this one too. Yep, its still made in the same factory. Same technology. Yep. But you're going to love it, it's so user friendly! We might change it though, we're not sure. Pictures? Specs? Compare old vs. new? None of those, but you're really going to love it!

This should have been a poll thread. Anyways.....the top 4 each have a reason to win DCI. Here's my take: Blue Devils - In the end, it's all going to come down to execution. Blue Devils had somewhat of a slow start but I knew they would catch up and go for the top 2. If you look at the clarity of the visual package (they win the best jazz-running of 2011), it's undeniable. Although General Effect is their weakest area, they know how to execute. It's that simple, and we could see a 3-peat in progress. Cadets - General Effect is off the charts smokin'. Everyone gets the show, the audience connects with the program, as well as the judges, so this would be a perfect show for Cadets to win. The weakest area so far would be the visual side, while brass is pretty good and percussion is pretty solid. All they need to do is CLEAN. CLEAN. CLEAN. Next thing you know we could be seeing a repeat of 2005. Carolina Crown - Brass is kicking ***, and so is their marching. I'm wondering about their percussion and guard though, and the show is actually coming together a little more and the audience loves what they do. Some people may still call Rach-Starr cheesy, but Crown ain't no cheesy corps. They are consistent the past few years in terms of music, so this is their moment to shine. Cavaliers - I believe there are no weaknesses that put Cavies significantly down. Other corps have weak areas but I don't think this group does. It was very apparent in the June show, and they have yet to clean the new added stuff. There's nothing weak about The Cavaliers this year....it's truly unmistakable. And the show is pretty sick too. Cavaliers will definitely shine in the visual caption, especially for guard and visual effect. So there. I have no idea who's gonna win, but this is the most exciting DCI season in my memory.

I was willing to take those negative red marks to bring home a point. Whether we realize this or not most of us (me included) unknowingly support the Hop/Gibbs self-righteous arrogance by completely ignoring, or forgetting to write about, the lower corps. Nobody can deny the competitive quality difference from the top to the bottom; and that competitive difference makes for great entertainment. However, we tend to view the corps as competitive entities in of themselves apart from the human (youth) aspect that actually makes up those entities. And since DCI is also a youth 501c3 activity, as well as a competitive venue, all I was pointing out was this question: Should our vocal and written support for a 501c3 youth activity really be this top heavy while ignoring, or forgetting, the youth outside of the top units?

Count CC out at your own peril. This corps means business and the crowd loves their show...period! Execution is CC's only flaw at this point, but they have a staff that can get it done. Speaking of clean....the harder show (IMO) to clean is Cadets, this is a beast of a design.....however, 2009 was another monster that they never quite got cleaned... mostly because the human body can't do some of that stuff (George ).....it's a matter of physics! Cavies are having issues breaking away from their present place while the other 3 are forging ahead. Not sure why, maybe performance, dirt, can't say....but again, they have the staff to get it done and it's not nearly as difficult (IMO) as the Cadets insane drill book. BD on the other hand, was rough out of the blocks due to the early Texas throwdown which took them out of their groove (in California everything has a groove ). But they have found their stride and although (as you might suggest) their show is a a bit askew of the other 3 in terms of "insanity" (which ironically, BD owned the last 3 years) it is a classic and beautiful design musically and visually and they are the best performers on the field right now....and they will only get better (of this you can be certain). NOTE: Last night (at midnight) I observed an empty corps bus parking lot in Hattiesburg, save one corps.....BD (all of them) sitting in the dark watching films (played against the side of one of their trucks) of their performance with stop action and a "hot wash" going on. Look in the dictionary for "focus" and you'll see that picture! Bottom line: count no one out....particularly CC & BD!

You run on tempo with whatever song is on your IPod as you jog!

I believe I explained that.... I like to view it as a night of drum corps, something that, like you, I have been involved with most of my life - since the late 60s, in fact. But it is not a "privilege" as you charactarize it. I don't earn the right to attend through some trial by ordeal, I pay money and I am allowed in. That's a business transaction and anyone can do it. Strip all the romanticism away and that's what it is. All DCI owes me is admission to the stadium when I pay, and once I have paid I owe them nothing in return. I am under no obligation to come back, praise the product or be a cheerleader for them. As a paying customer I will put my money into transactions that i feel are worth it. DCI hasn't been for a long time now. That is a direct result of the changes they made to the activity. The fact that I have a history with drum corps means I have an emotional attachment to it and will be involved in calling for changes when something goes off the rails. My closed wallet has been a form of protest all these years and I notified DCI of that fact when I made the decision. But I am willing to give it one more try, and thank you for your well wishes for Allentown. I'll let you know what I think.

Here is a link provided by Blue Devils. It seems as though tonight was the debut of their new drum major. Starting them young, I hear she's an understudy from Blue Devils D

I think I saw a wedge, could they be putting in the TAG ending? I think Pilot was right when he said the opener could use that ending. No matter what they do or how they finish, I have had a great 2011 season. The MADISON SCOUTS 2011 have done a few things for me. 1st- You all got my wife to go to a Drum Corps show agian, I think the last time she saw the Corps or had anything to do with Drum and Bugle Corps was 2006. Thank You! 2nd- I just like your show! 3rd- This one goes out to all the kids in all the Drum Corps! Can you all say, "Giant Crowds at FINALS Weekend! YES! Its about time you all get to experience that! I for one am not going to miss it! Keep them smiling, behind you ALL 110% GO! MADISON SCOUTS!

Well, that just brings us to where we started. It was much easier to balance for the paying customers when there was no amplification. Does anyone actually "love" that fact?

I'm almost always satisfied with placements after DCI Finals. To me it really does not matter who wins anymore, or who is 2nd or 3rd, or top 5, etc. I tend to be more concerned about some of the off-field issues (TOC, amp/electronics, what are we judging and the criteria, tour costs, promoting the activity, etc.). Sure, I have certain corps I root for more than others (Bluecoats, Cadets, Madison, Troopers), but the last time I looked those 4 corps are pretty healthy and doing fairly well. Their placement doesn't really bother me too much. I may disagree with the judging from time to time, but who doesn't. Tough job! In regard to the top 4 this year, honestly we have seen this a number of times. The top 4 in 1984 all beat each other at some point. I remember watching Phantom Regiment beat Garfield at DCI Canada (gosh I miss that show) in 1984. In 1988 the top 4 corps all finished within 1 point of each other (Cadets were 1 point below Madison). In 1990 the top 6 corps all had significant wins during the year. Blue Devils and Phantom Regiment were undefeated until mid-season that year and they both ended up tied for 4th come finals. The difference between Cadets, Cavaliers, and Star of Indiana was small at best. In 1992 the Cadets came from the 6th position at mid-season to take 2nd at finals. In 1995 the Blue Devils were undefeated until Finals week and finished 3rd behind Cavaliers and Cadets. In 1996 Phantom Regiment was in 4th after quarterfinals and ended up tying BD for the title at Finals. Along the way that year the Cadets performed at the closing ceremonies of the 96 Olympics in Atlanta and were considered the top challenger to BD. In 1998 Cadets, SCV, and Blue Devils all could have taken the title. In 2001 the Cavaliers won, but Cadets and Blue Devils were right there with them, both tying for 2nd place. The top 7 corps in 2007 were all amazing and placements shifted all over the place that summer. The Bluecoats took top brass at Quarterfinals and somehow finished in 7th with the 2nd-place percussion section. (and I still think they should have won brass, 2nd at worst). We saw what happened in 2008 when Phantom cleaned their show and tweaked the ending. WIN!! So, yes, this year is exciting and I can't wait to see Finals. I have my issues with many of the things happening off the field, but during the season, electronics or not, I love to enjoy what the performers are giving. The top 4 this year are REALLY good, and I agree with many that you can't count any one of them out of it. Crown is amazing, and I don't think it's cheesy at all. It's exactly what that kind of show should be. Cadets -- BEST SHOW ON THE FIELD in my opinion. Cavaliers, a super challenging visual program and a wonderful brass line. Music isn't my cup of tea, but boy are they good. And Blue Devils just continue to be the overall best performers on the field. They move so well, and I love the many colors their brass and percussion can achieve. When I want the ultimate in marching music, BD is the first to come to my mind. They are the quintessential performance drum corps!

Honestly, at this point, I'd be ok with whoever wins,even if BD's visual package loses me and makes me think ofExtreme Home Makeover

If I may: 1) We, as paying customers DO have a right to complain. If these corps can not produce a good sound, people will stop coming. There is more to this activity that the final decision of the judges. If that approach is going to be the corps take, then I can't wait to see their next set of excuses as funds continue to dry up. Drum corps is an audio/visual spectacular. If the audio is impairing enjoyment for people, then, the corps either a) need to listen or b) get ready to do with less money. I'm not saying amps need to go or electronics. But if you can't please ALL of the people sitting 20 to 20, then really, you're suckering the customer, and sending them home unhappy. And sending customers home unhappy does, will, and HAS affected the bottom line. 2) thank you for proving that enclosed stadiums/domes are worse for this. Which only amplifies the issues since almost all of the major shows are inside. 3) no offense, I'm not sold that the corps know what the hell they are doing with blend and balance given the years of issues now, and from posts made by staffers, I'm pretty sure the judges aren't 100% up to speed either. 4) bottom line, this is an issue DCI and it's member corps need to address. Since they have already refused to take accountability on the myriad of issues cuasing their current financial status like touring, etc, I'm sure we will see more of the same with this issue

Blue Devils and Bluecoats 2010...so you are saying they benefited from the advent of electronics and wouldnt "work" without them ?? I rest my case. And I will speak as I choose, for the many I know and have known throughout the decades in the activity and you , will take it as you wish.....More people have left than joined the ranks of fans in the last seven years. You enjoy your audition camps. Have fun, hope to see you out on the field someday ! Geoffrey

Thanks for posting. Wish you had participated in a few discussions before just nuking the topic from orbit, but I appreciate your thoughts. Hopefully others will feel the same. I disagree with most of your points, though. Not sure how this is a defense of goo. We know that corps mix for the box, that lower-seating gets creamed by the amps and that indoor venues are bass traps. If all of that means that lots of the audience is getting an greatly inferior experience, then it's bad for the activity. Personally, I don't think drum corps is going to grow its audience by trying to sound like a movie theater. It's much cheaper and easier to go to a movie theater if that's the experience you want. You are way overdoing the straw-man hyperbole here. If a new mello made a corps sound as bad as electronics sometimes do, then I would be complaining and hoping that the corps would change mellos. If the judges loved the new mellos, then they probably wouldn't. But to the extent that the judge's experience and the audience's experience diverge so much, it's bad for the activity. Not sure how this relates to the typical experience in the audience. I fully believe corps try their best to make it sound right for the judges. Unfortunately with electronics that's coming more and more at the expense of the audience. They already mike brass and it often sounds very bad, but that hasn't stopped them, so I don't know why you don't think they want to do more of it. So how does this fit in with your other comment? Why shouldn't the whole corps play with "better technique" and since when is playing loud bad technique? I prefer the arrangement and the performers to make room for the soloist. If the ensemble is too loud for the soloist, then amping the soloist is the wrong change to make. First of all, progress means better sound, better audience experience. So far electronics haven't provided this. Critiquing the aural experience of a show is all about encouraging progress. If a show sounds bad, that's bad for the activity. The judges may love the sound, but if the audience doesn't, that's bad for the activity. Please don't dismiss honest criticism as a "slam".

First of all - I love how disagreeing with DCI makes you a "hater". That's a word 13 year old girls use to describe anyone who's not a Justin Beiber fan.... Sorry but if I'm not in the select handful of seats I just have to accept lousy sound? Maybe DCI should discount all but the select 20 or so seats if this is really the case. Is it your contention then that synths are only a stopgap correction for the accoustics at Lucas and will go away when the Indy contract runs out? If the mellos are playing too loud they get hit on the sheets for ensemble. Nobody seems to be doing much with the electronics from what I can gather. Part of drum corps is to evaluate the excellence of the performers. If they're blowing it they get nailed. It seems the electronics can't get it right even with an adult professional sound board engineer correcting problems while the performance is in progress. Less corps and reportedly falling attendance. Not sure how you can possibly say it's stronger. In short - crap spawns more crap....

In 1971 there were 17 corps at DCA Prelims In 1981 there were 17 corps at DCA Prelims In 1991 there were 17 corps at DCA Prelims In 2001 there were 15 corps at DCA Prelims In 2011 there will be 22 corps at DCA Prelims (23 if SoCal Dream had been able to make it) Sounds like DCA is doing something right these days...

So who will win it ? I think Crown is out of the mix. (Love the horn line.) I don't think B.D. has the show. Comes down to Cavies + Cadets. Can't see anyone beating Cavies Drum Line. Gonna be close but I'd say Cavies by .3

Been thinking about this for a while. And nothing that's happened the past few weeks has indicated otherwise. Could this be the year when the color guard score is decisive? Might the guard score determine who wins or doesn't? Guard placements so far have been more variable with SCV and Phantom at times topping the three C's and BD in that category. If some two or three of Cavies, Cadets, BD and Crown are in contention for the championship on Saturday in Indy, what are the chances that they'll equalize (or at least offset) each other in every category except perhaps guard? And if that happens, will the best guard decide which is the best corps? I'm asking, not predicting. HH

Kudos to Jersey Surf. Their souvie booth is giving away free hand fans.

You got it Matt!! Finally is right!! And I agree with you - the facial hair has got to go! It's a Crossmen thing though....

There is nothing like watching your son/daughter on the field for the first time, (and every time after!).

Sorry--my first live show of the season. Gotta take in as much as I can.

When you sit on DCP all day always checking to see if your posts get a positive

It's hard to reconcile the article with the fact that the TOC sheets seem to produce almost identical scores/placements to the old sheets. How much could they really have changed? Mr. Boo - did you get any idea of how much training the TOC judges have undergone on new vs. old sheets? Perhaps the current DCI sheets are bleeding into the TOC judging despite the new caption names?

It is believed by many that the current system has gone about as far as it can go in adequately rewarding corps for what they are accomplishing as they head in the directions the activity is heading, whatever that may be. This prototype system is better set up to change with the times. Have you considered a job in politics? I was wondering if even one example might be available of how the sheets are currently unable, or on the verge of being unable, to rate an aspect of drum corps. For example, is every corps marching so fast nowadays that the sheets as currently written ought to call for all of them to achieve top scores in that aspect? Is it felt that the Cavaliers were not adequately rewarded for jumping over each other in "Samurai", because the sheets don't treat that differently from other marching techniques? And so forth. Is that the kind of limitation this particular change is meant to address?

Here is a factor that may be an indicator here... When corps fold, there is nothing for the kids to participate in... they go on to other corps. With Star... not only was there still something for kids to participate in, loads of kids that still could have marched in drum corps stayed with the Star organization... performing the rest of their eligible competitive years. if that does not tell you something about the quality of the experience they provided, and the fact that they continued on... don't think much else will.

I know having a much better Colorguard has sure helped Phantom Regiment this year! And, even with percussion hovering around 5th or a bit lower, the guard scores have kept Phantom at or above last year's standing. A good visual product gives you some great scores......

We've been told all kinds of bull to get these rules passed, yet they rarely live up to them. I posted earlier on another thread about how any-key brass was supposed to spawn all kinds of new corps all over the country because kids could bring their own horns and reduce the start-up and operating costs of a corps. Since 2002, the year after any-key, there are 30 less corps in competition in North America. Smoke and mirrors. Garry in Vegas

O.o?? I'm sorry, i must have missed something... Did they move finals to July 28??

You know you've done too much Drum Corps when you're downtown standing behind a dirty diesel public bus puking fumes and you take a giant whiff and think "wow that smells really good".

When you can sleep better on the floor than in a bed .... Don't have a problem peein' in a jug .... Love the smell when your following a bus .... Think of B. Crocker at the ball game .... ...

So a DCI-standard speaker setup would produce a better listening experience for the live audience, but it would be different from high school band and provide less opportunity for sponsorships. Sadly that makes it clear how the decision will go. Why isn't this a case where DCI could benefit all by auctioning off the sound system rights for the whole summer tour and then sharing the revenue among the corps? Reduces expenses for each member corps, makes setup for each unit simpler and more predictable, provides a better experience for the audience. Seems like an idea that's worth some examination.

You know you've done to much drum corps... When you kickhalt while waiting to cross the street

LOL, before I read the words I thought you were giving a visual example of the sound problems others have described. FWIW (not much), I care about the activity (DCI,DCA, Minis, Alumni types, etc) and the members but this buttercup doesn't go to DCI shows because it's just not worth my time and money to hear things other than drums and horns. Sorry show sponsors....

BD in 5th place? These are wish lists not predictions. There is nothing wrong with a little dreaming.

No one is talking about it because no one is surprised. The top 3 are going to take turns in 1st place for the remainder of the season from the looks of it. They all have great shows and it depends on who makes the proper changes to their show that will define the winner. And even after someone wins, in DCP fashion, everyone will fight about who had the better show or a discussion will be made as to why Corps A didn't deserve to win and Corps B should've won. It's a yearly process that occurs on DCP each year.

NICE! That's a great example of drum corps' ability to push raw emotion into the core of pure human spirit. She's feeling it, and giving up the love in her own way!

Devils posting some serious scores as of late.

Two words: funnel cakes.

Thank you to those that responded to my post about the SCV ballad. I just downloaded "The Eternal Knot" from iTunes. WOW what a wonderful piece of music...made only better in drum corps form. Thank you SCV and Key Poulan One of the highlights of the 2011 season for me. Can't wait to hear it live.

If BD wins, the crying and moaning will never end. If Carolina Crown wins, the fanboy-ism will never end.

To the OP: Welcome to DCP. I trust you'll enjoy the debate here, considering your comments. I call myself an audiophile, too. Have been for 40 years. And I completely disagree with virtually every single part of your post. I particularly disagree with your notion that it's acceptable for DCI to push this activity in a direction that excludes such a majority of the audience from enjoying the "aural" effects of a well-done show. This isn't ONLY a competitive activity like most sports; there's a significant entertainment component as well. It seems the portion of fans who are there for the entertainment are being excluded under your definition of "acceptable". I disagree strongly.

I don't mind an open discussion about electronics. However, I do have an issue with saying that if you are not sitting right on the 50 next to the judges, that you don’t have the right to complain about an absurd amount of Goo. Before the Goo was so evident, you could sit nearly anywhere um and still enjoy the show without one significantly overpowering/overbalanced sound. So pretty much 95% of the audience doesn’t have the right to complain due to their seat location? That just doesn’t jive with me.

Pearl sent us new drums yesterday.

What they said. GO BLUE KNIGHTS!

Throw it down Glassmen I really would like Glassmen's show a lot more if they got rid of some of the "Dr. Who" sounds or at least turned it down. It literally hurt my ears last night. And I was about 6 rows in front of the judges. I think I heard Dave Starnes make a negative comment about it or at least I hope he did. It needs to go away. On a positive note, I have always thought they move very well.