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Let me first preface this opinion by stating up front my opinion is my own and does not represent any organization or organizations I am or formerly have been involved with in past, present, or future. I have been following this whole episode regarding the Separatists. There are a few things that I find troubling. It does not surprise me that a couple of the teams involved in this move are doing what they are doing. It is the majority of these groups who have apparently forgotten where they came from and how they got there. Less than 10 years ago, one of these teams was a 16th place drum corps. Now they have moved up the ranks they are going to kick the ladder away from the wall? Less than 5 years ago, did not earn the place it seems they think they are owed, despite the fact they got a "bailout" from they very organization they are seeking to weaken. Except for the Santa Clara Vanguard and Cavaliers, two of the founding organizations of DCI, the rest have been defined by DCI. Who are the Bluecoats without DCI Finals? Who are the Blue Devils without DCI in front of the title "champion?" Carolina Crown have the chance to win a DCI championship at every division. Without DCI what is the Phantom Regiment? To call drum corps a niche activity is such an laughable understatement. It is closer to a cult. These folks have so overestimated their place in the world, the real world, it is almost laughable, if it were not so potentially catastrophic. We live in a time in which the very future of music education is really in peril. Programs are shrinking or flat out disappearing. People are losing teaching jobs. Parents have to fight harder and harder to keep music apart of their kids lives. In this climate, the "champions" of what we do are so greedy and their view of the world is so warped by the lithe bubble they live in they have to separate themselves from the rest of us. The rest of us... The others... The ones that, apparently, are such a drag of their collective greatness they can't share the stage with us any longer. I grew up in Wyoming. I moved to Casper in high school and then joined the Troopers "B" corps and got promoted into the "A" corps in 1984. In those days those of us who were local spent time at Mr. Jones' really cool home. On one of my visits, Mr. Jones started telling me the same story Don Warren told on the Brass Roots video that came out in the 90s. At the time I did not understand why he was telling me this story. He told me that when they form "The Combine" that it was to circle the wagons and support each other and govern they're own activity that had evolved beyond the old model. To support each other... One thing he stressed to me was that DCI was not there to benefit a single corps or a small group of corps, but to support the activity in general. This model seems to have served the Bluecoats well. Remember when they drove around in Canton Police busses and they had 40 kids in the corps. Remember when they were not corps they are now, was not so long ago. This model seems to have served Carolina Crown well. Remember when they were in purple barely making finals when they did make finals? Remember when they were the up and coming corps coming off a Div II championship? How far we've come. I didn't know Mr. Royer, I have never met Mr. Warren. I did know Jim Jones. I do not think he would be happy with what's happening to his legacy. I do wonder what Mr. Royer, in particular, would think. We live in such a strange time. Everything is ideology, arguments are always tried to be boiled down into black and white, with no shades of gray. No compromise. Given this backdrop, I can't help feeling as though we are seeing the "I got mine, screw the rest of you, cause I want more" mentality infect and threaten "this thing of ours." How very sad. For those of you out there, who like me, have spent a lifetime working and building our respective drum corps and the activity I have a question for you. "Have we wasted our time?" Beyond the benefit to our own lives and the benefits our students have gotten from this amazing activity; I think you have to ask yourself that question. Have we spent all of these years building this thing to have hijacked by people who have benefited themselves from all of the work we all have done? That is why I think this is such a tough thing to watch happen. Because of a few guys and some lemmings who are willing to go over the cliff with them this whole things could be gone in a few years. For what? I am quite certain that this experiment of theirs is going to be a spectacular failure. The market is simply not big enough. My fear is they will sink the rest of us too. For what? What's the payoff? More money? More prestige?

Your statement above concerning DCI corps (ie directors) and the cult followers of DCI overestimating their place in the world is, by far, one of the most astute and accurate statements I believe to have been placed on any DCP Forum.

When one part of a group leaves another part of a group, whether for financial, emotional or ideological reasons, there is a sense of inevitable forward momentum. I bet the VFW and CYO didn't think DCI would make it on their own. For better or worse, G7 is more concerned with fighting over the leftover pie than baking more pie. While certain groups may not necessarily NEED to change the current model, there is pride involved... whether warranted or not. Human beings do not always make decisions based on what's good for the whole. It is neither short-sighted or prescient. It is merely to satisfy the overwhelming money-eating machine we have created, rather than addressing the root of the problem... that we are not, in fact, a large, well-financed entertainment industry, but merely have some very good wordsmiths that take educational language, motivational techniques, fund-raising and non-profit knowledge to serve rather narrow needs. One always hopes for the best, but holding a rather small activity hostage to a set of values that not all ascribe to doesn't bode well. I don't have inside information, but I share the general sense of disappointment in the "me first" attitude in what could be a vibrant youth activity that becomes more and more about the adults. That's a shame. The world gets a little colder each time someone decides they are more important than someone else. Is that really the lesson drum corps was supposed to teach? Really? That's all I'm going to say about this, but it was on my mind. sincerely, Chuck Naffier Lifelong Drum Corps Fan/Participant

Well, that would certainly be an interesting "sequins" of events.

The G-7 thing really only confirmed what I had observed happening for years and it made it pretty clear who is on what side And they did make their intentions clear They lost a lot of Cow love and have not recovered in my esteem That’s a huge part of it right up there, 60 person staff and adults trying to get rich pimping out kids as an educational experience when the kids are just marks for the top folks in the top corps to fill their pockets pushing products of DCI sponsors and their 'experience camps' we got trouble here in River City I kind of hope the G-7 leave and DCI goes back to more traditional rules and corps, no a/e, only 128 kids, they can keep multi-key, I’m not a luddite Then we can watch the G-7 eat each other and become the G-3 and collapse under their own weight and greed

Agreed. In any niche sport or activity, the fans will focus on the top performers. But the reason they are fans of the niche activity, rather than football, say, is that they love the activity itself, and they want to support it. They will cheer for whoever is succeeding in the activity. Look at figure skating; the top performers don't even stay around more than a few years! How could they claim it's all about them? If the G7 disappeared tomorrow, it would be tragic. Shows would take a hit at first, but as soon as people began to focus on the title chase between Madison and Boston Crusaders, say, they'd all come back. And they'd be on the edge of their seats.

I have heard some of his music, and its great stuff!!!!

Finally a corps is doing a tribute to Liberace!

The IRS form 990 is the tax return for non-profit organizations. As such, all of the financial data for DCI and each corps is exposed for all to see; 990's are open for public view because of the filer's tax exempt status. That is, if you can figure out how to read them because the forms are notoriously hard to read and decipher, especially for non-financial people. The financial stability of DCI and the individual corps is a hot topic in DCP-land. My hope is to present the finacial data here in little bites, giving plenty of room for discussion, in hopes that we all can become more familiar with the facts about the financial health of the activity. My method for studying the 990's is to analyze the trends over as many years as are available. Typically, there are three years of 990 data available and my goal is to spot the trends over time, subject to the 990 forms available. A word of caution: nothing that we can present here is a full explanation of the background story of the numbers; complete explanations are not part of the forms even though notes are an integral part of the form filings. It's just raw data - income, expenses, assets, and liablilites - it doesn't explain how the numbers came to be. As a result there will be a natural tendency to speculate on the reasons for the numbers - something that DCP'ers are very good at. But the real back story can only be explained by the financial people at DCI or the individual corps. Still, I've always believed that numbers can tell a story. My hope is that, by presenting the numbers here, that story will reveal itself to all of us. Disclaimer: While I work in the financial industry, this thread is not official in any capacity, and does not reflect the position or opinion of DCI, any corps, or my employer. All data comes directly from Form 990's found on www.guidestar.com, is presumed to be accurate but is not guaranteed to be so. All opinions expressed are mine, personally, are not audited, and are only based upon my amateur interpretation of the 990 forms. With all that in mind, here we go! Fun with numbers! EDIT: For those who may wish to skip to their favorite corps, I've added the following index of post numbers. First the corps name and then the post number where their 990 discussion begins: INDEX OF CORPS 990's (Name: Post number) DCI: 2 YEA!: 134 Blue Devils: 204 UPDATED 2011 NUMBERS ARE IN RED Cavaliers: 286 Carolina Crown: 367 Phantom Regiment: 437 Santa Clara Vanguard: 469 The Bluecoats: 525 Boston Crusaders: 576 Blue Knights: 603 Madison Scouts: 647 Blue Stars: 669 Spirit of Atlanta: Not available Consolidated Summary of Top-11 plus DCI: 724 The Glassmen: 739 The Troopers: 767 The Academy: 808 The Colts: 824 The Crossmen: 845 Pacific Crest: 869 The Mandarins: 891 The Cascades: 917 Jersey Surf: 957 Pioneer: 969 Consolidate Summary of All Corps: 994

Cincinnati Tradition is proud to announce the 2013 show titled “Breakdown.” The links are provided as examples and are in no way the actual arrangement. This year’s program delves into the darker psyche of mankind, tracing the uncontrollable spiral of emotions we face as we struggle to make sense of our place in this world. At times we are light-hearted and content with life; but we are all just a snapping point away from losing our grasp on reality, drowning in the abyss of disillusion. This distorts our hopes and dreams into confused obsession, which will ultimately lead to an untimely demise. The opening segment of the 2013 program is "Joy", featuring Joseph Curiale's “Joy” from Awakening. Part 2 of the show is "Disillusion" – represented by the tune “Happy Days Are Here Again/Get Happy” as performed by Barbra Streisand & Judy Garland. Just when you think things are going well, there’s a break from reality. A voice in your head makes you second guess whether you’re actually joyful or if that joy is just an illusion. Part 3 of the show is "Confusion" – represented by “Resistance” from Muse. Though you resist, the darkness begins to overwhelm, the light slips away, what is happening... I don’t want this... Part 4 of the show is "Depression" illustrated by the song “Creep” by Radiohead. Now stuck in the throes of depression hopelessness sets in... Part 5 of the show and the closer, "Self Destruction/Total Breakdown" is represented by “Welcome to the Masquerade” by Thousand Foot Krutch (TFK). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02BRnI3iUO4

2016 - Avenue Q - the internet is for porn

In my world, I’d design my show around the music and not the concept, it's the music that inspires me I’m getting this Cavies Circle of Madness 2010 vibe sounds like the Cadets staff is still out of new ideas

My there are some nice things happening in the brass band world (or as I like to refer to it the "sit-down version of DCI")...

...but not actually independent of DCI. The idea seemed to be that DCI would 'run' the show in some sense (for a fee), and, crucially, the shows were listed on the DCI website and carried the DCI logo. I think it was a mistake for DCI to go along with this, because it established a set of shows for the G7 to continue outside of DCI if it wanted. That's like handing Brutus the knife. Still, technically they were DCI shows and were proposed that way in the pdf at least. There were a lot of things in the proposal that I read as being partly an attempt at goodwill, partly smokescreen, and partly expressing legitimate concerns over DCI inefficiencies which may have been part of the motive behind the movement. Still, asking DCI to streamline and become more efficient isn't evidence of seeking to split from DCI. I would say: The idea of G7 running a DCI sponsored 'separate tour' is explicit, not implicit. The idea of G7 running a non-DCI separate tour, while also doing DCI shows (I think this is what you mean), you may be right, but we'd need more information. For example, it depends in part on whether the other directors and DCI would believe they could pull it off, and whether such a thing had been discussed before. A separate association's shows, not listed on the DCI website, would be a huge challenge to pull off. It may also be the case the Hop & Co. hoped that everyone would read it as in implicit threat, even though they (G7) might have rejected the idea as unworkable. Perhaps they never discussed it much between themselves, but still hoped it might strike terror into the hearts of the Rosemont attendees, without even having to bring it up. That's just basic strategy, and we can expect that they would use it. If so, the non-G7 erred by not making it explicit; "Are you saying you might split off and do this on your own if we don't help you." Force them to show their hand, and you can better deal with it. Because, frankly, I see these TOC shows as a mistake. DCI shouldn't have caved on that one. The G7 are now better able to split off if they want, having already established relationships with the venues and with the fans (presumably they've gotten a bunch of contact info). The whole thing weakens DCI. If the whole threat was implicit, and in fact unworkable, then DCI didn't need to give an inch. Now they may lose a mile. Oh, that'll happen either way! Who said so? Someone who was present? That's the evidence I'm looking for. Agreed. So you think it was all Hop? Well, you said earlier it was implicit in the request for the TOC shows, and that request must have been approved by all 7 directors at least, since it was the core of the proposal. But I get it - you're theorizing, as we all are! Great info on this thread, folks.

I would be happy if they had been muted all season - The voice over part anyway.

You Mean 2011 MURDER 2012 SIN 2013 BOOZE Yes, what's next?

I do not understand why DCI thinks it is OK to edit together different performances and present it as "the finals".

Hello all... just want to spare you a few phone calls to DCI. The DVDs and CDs are shipping now. The Blu Rays have not yet shipped. They will be shipping around or shortly after Thanksgiving. This is from the folks at DCI.

Again, I don't think it's necessary. I suspect the entire issue (as far as audio clips goes) is mostly caused by late sync license requests. So if you can get corps to make these requests the previous summer, you can definitely get them to make the requests by January, which solves the problem without making the creative staff do double duty. I will submit the question (about when these requests are actually made) to DCI's contact web page and post any response here.

On the Volume I DVD: Blue Devils: No edits (The chant is back in on the DVD) Carolina Crown: The solo in the second movement is from Semi-Finals Phantom Regiment: No preshow, no other edits The Cadets: Edits have already been discussed Santa Clara Vanguard: No edits Bluecoats: No edits Boston Crusaders: No edits The Cavaliers: The laugh voice over/wave in the preshow has been cut. Madison Scouts: No edits Blue Knights: No edits Spirit of Atlanta: No preshow, the first few seconds of the closer (with the 8 Mile quote) has been cut Crossmen: No preshow, no other edits

Uh...what's that leave?

+1 for the movie references. What's with DCP and Blazing Saddles lately? Mike

Hey, that sounds like a good business model. How about we double pay across the board, then?

An anagram is "Amp an Ion." I've had a bad night's sleep, so I'm going with a show about electron microscopes. I'm guessing the song selection is "I Can See Clearly Now." (But I've been wrong in the past.) Seriously...if the show has half the impact as in 2012, the corps will have a nice run for its first World Class finalist position.

So...it's a Roaring Twenties type show, eh? Booze, Flappers, Zoot Suits and Swing. Sounds good.

Looks to be along the same vein as the last couple years. Can't wait! If they can have a chart that matches Luck Be A Lady from this year, I'm set.

meh

KH, I'm really sorry you got whacked 10 red neggies for posting your opinion. (/sarcasm ). And I really thought about posting something snide about all the bandwidth you use posting stuff that only angry white men would want to read, but I respected your post and actually gave you a greenie. I'm about to end the discussion and launch into what we can find out about the corps, but I want to get a couple of things out there before we head on. First, I am a financial professional by all the definitions you can think of but I'm not a CPA. I have, in fact, studied dozens and dozens of 990's - and not in drum corps - hoping to do exactly what you suggest this thread might become - a bash-fest. Generally speaking, that's the common reason anyone would pore over such stuff. Although I do enjoy the hunt, however, that's not my motivation and, as the threads OP, I'll ask the mods PDQ to shut it down if it reverts to that because, well, for the reasons I explained in that first post. That said, you're right, the average fan wouldn't, and doesn't, care about this subject. And in the past (that you seem to love bloviating about), when there were dozens of corps it didn't matter if one or two or a dozen corps went kerplunk; there would still be a show to go to in hundreds of locations on any summer night. We didn't care about the financials until there weren't shows any more. Then we cared. When it was too late. I happen to be able to read 990's and I'm not bad at presenting data. I was unsure who would give a darn but I see some curious onlookers, even if you're not (yet) one of them. It's only my passion for the activity that I do this exercise and post it. And, if no one cared, I'd still study the 990's because if, by chance, some corps director (or I) wanted to know why the perceived strongest corps are so strong, I'd like to be able to react with more than just a shrug. Probably not unlike why your passion takes you to the history side of the activity. I'm sure the mods are watching closely to make sure the thread doesn't get out of hand. And Perc2100, I get your point that this exercize is probably pointless except for the small benefit of pure knowledge but, if you had the opportunity, wouldn't you want to satisfy your curiosity about why the movie industry can't seem to make money? If you could peek inside, even just out of curiosity, would you? That's all this is about. But please recognize that my intent doesn't begin with a presumption that anyone, anywhere is "cooking the books"; I don't believe that for a moment even if the 990's do give the opportunity. From my perspective, I'm the type of guy who, if I discovered something that I did disagree with or not understand, I would contact the party to get clarification or voice my opinion. I believe I have that right with DCI (to voice me opinion) simply because my passion has caused me to give much to the activity over nearly 40 years. Still, I recognize that I'm probably unique in that view. This thread is about nothing more nefarious than that. But if the data promotes healthy discussion and banter on DCP, well, that's what we're good at here, after all. G

Sorry KH, but I find this topic more interesting than several of the topics you have started on the "histerical" forum. Over 7,200 posts is a lot, too me, for a busy person.

The average fan wouldn't care. However, the people who passionate discuss drum corps on DCP are not your average fans. They're involved more than being mere seat warmers. (And by that, I do not mean that "average" fans are nothing more than "seat warmers." I believe most fans have some skin in the game.) Like some people having too much time on their hands to think of complaining about believing others having too much time on their hands? (In my case, it's true that I have too much time on my hands. Thinking about drum corps stuff keeps me off the streets, where I'd be turning over police cars and setting fires to abandoned buildings.) Back in the day, whenever that was, I can't imagine that there weren't people who cared about that. In the early 1980s, people were telling me DCI was going broke and drum corps would die. They cared...they just happened to be wrong. Were you sitting at your desk when you thought about this? Or were you on the couch? Either way, I think you may have succeeded in at least stimulating some brain cells; but I would never suggest to you or anyone else to "get a life." We all have lives...perhaps some of us need more hobbies. I myself am thinking of taking up macramé. Sorry...not into that sort of thing. (I hope I'm referring to slaps to the face and not well thought out replies.)

People should care about the financial health of the organizations in the activities they love, particularly when financial hardship is both a chronic and acute problem at the moment in the activity. Back in 1972 people had no power to get that information, so it's not a fair comparison. No internet, no guidestar. As an example, China just appointed new leadership, but the people on the street are essentially uninterested because they have no power to control, or even learn about, their government. That power leads to interest, which leads to action, which leads, by the way, to change.

Tour Goggles.

I smell a cover up! Is it coincidence that Mr Boo, DCI's chief apologist, is under some sort of order from DCI's imprimatur prohibiting his posting on DCP links to DCI's website at exactly the same time as someone who understands DCI's 990's is translating them for the masses? I think not! I never met a conspiracy theory I didn't like! Now, where did I put my tin-foil cover? PS Garfield - keep up the good work. Like Deep Throat said during Watergate - "Follow the money".

Maybe he really DID mean baited breath!

1. I care. 2. How much time garfield has is not your concern. He is not on your payroll. 3. How does one make a name for themself on DCP by posting under a screen name? That makes no sense. 4. A self-evaluation may be in order regarding that last sentence. <slap!> DCP is here for people to discuss drum corps in detail. The whole reason the forum exists, and is organized in subforums and threads, is for the sake of people who wish to discuss those details. If that interests you, keep reading. If not, click on something else - the remainder of the Internet awaits your judgment with baited breath.

He doesn't take coffee breaks...he takes meditation breaks. Last time I walked in, he was sitting in a darkened corner chanting his mantra. It sounded like he was intoning, "Ho-o-o-o-o-o-p-k-i-i-i-i-i-ns," over and over.

yeah they told me they keep forgetting to fix that and install the buzzer

...and the security guard was on a coffee break. :)

Hate to throw gasoline onto an ongoing fire, but why would a fan of DCI even want the CDs these days? They from my understanding will be cutting and editing out chucks of certain shows this year. I hope I am wrong, but from what I have heard, BD is muted in the beginning and Cadets have had about :30 seconds wiped out of the closer etc...... Kind of makes one wish they had instead bought the APD's. Have those by the way been edited too?

I am allowed inside the office, but perhaps only because the door is left unlocked during business hours.

It's good but doesn't jump out at me as a first impression

Are you positive Music In Motion was formed by Gibbs as a "split off from DCI" type organization for the G7?

Oh absolutely.. and its a very good point, as well as a reminder. For example, what if in the 2nd year of DCI ( 1973 ), the TOP 7( at that time ) Beautiful People Corps in the TOP 7 pulled the same stunt ? Well, we'd find that the non top 7 Corps of the Phantom Regiment ( 14th ), Cavaliers ( 15th ), Cadets (17th )and the Blue Devils (24th )would've been told back then they were part of the Great Unwashed and not part of the Hoi Poloi "top draw G7 " Oh the irony of it all.

Herbert was on staff last season.

sadly however, Suncoast Sound has been " shut up " for good. There have been lots of Corps that have done a show that did" a pretty good job of shutting up a crowd ", but this can be accomplished without doing a dark show too.

It would be appropriate, considering the corps' heritage, if the show is about famous pianists and their music; Beethoven, Chopin, Liszt, Rubinstein, Rachmaninoff, and Horowitz...with the "Piano Man" motif as a leitmotif connecting thread.

Thanks for these links, and all the good and diverse input. So far, all I see as far as actual statements made by any of the protagonists is proposed organizational changes within DCI, including a larger cut for the G7 corps and the addition of G7 only shows. None of the players has mentioned anything about the G7 splitting from DCI. The Music in Motion thing could be anything; the Blue Devils have a lot of fundraising and performance irons in the fire. The Drum Corps World article doesn't suggest anyone has made any such threats or statements either, and also points out that DCI board members often promote controversial changes in direction for DCI. However, the article quotes George Hopkins saying the G7 are "united in their goals," and then says: This article is actually dated before DCI's own press release (May 20). So at this point I'd have to say it's possible the whole G7 Split conspiracy theory was started by outside observers Mike Ferlazzo and Steve Vickers (the authors of the DCW piece) based on George Hopkins' use of a single cliche. Steve Vickers is on the board of directors of the Madison Scouts, which is notably absent from the G7. Start your own conspiracy theory on that one, I'm tired! Any more actual evidence? Edit for typos and to add George Hopkins name in final paragraph.

I actually proposed a Zappa show several weeks ago on the Cavaliers' alumni Facebook page. It would be a hoot to hear the drum major sing the ending of "Cletus Awreetus-Awrightus" from "Grand Wazoo."

I've only been around a few months on DCP, and it seems everyone is assuming the G7 is or was planning or threatening to split off from DCI. I've seen the G7 pdf file, and Dan Acheson's post expressing his concern for the activity. So here's my question: 1A: Is, or 1B: Was ...the G7... 2A. Planning, or 2B. Considering, or 2C. Neither 3A. Starting their own separate drum corps league of contests and leaving DCI? 3B. Starting their own separate drum corps league of contests, and also doing some DCI shows? 3C. Just adding the TOC shows within DCI, and that's it. Of course, I'm asking for the evidence, and not just opinions. In addition: What formal statements have the G7 made as a unit other than the G7 pdf file? What individual statements have the G7 representatives made that seem reflective of the G7 as a whole? What other statements have DCI and it's representatives made that relate to this? And in general why do people believe the G7 want to split off? Thanks so much for any assistance.