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How many times are you going to start new threads with the same rehashed crybaby argument?

Pretty much just trolling at this point. Calling members of today band geeks makes you just sound like the bitter old high school football coach that couldn't hack it at a higher level, so is angry at everyone and everything. So calling the members geeks just makes him feel about his life.

well....i do not think musical considerations are taken by visual judges the way visual considerations are taking by musical judges. if you're judging music and you don't mention all of the visual demands, you get crucified. But rarely if ever do you hear a visual judge point out musical demands to say maybe why someone blew a form etc. In listening to some drum tapes last year, at times up to 40% of the commentary was related to visual demands

Please do.

I really don't see anything 'geeky' about today's DCI performers. To perform music at such a high level, under such adverse conditions and motion is truly something impressive. Geeky would be an out-of-shape high school kid with an ill-fitting uniform and a Sousaphone wrapped around him like a demonic python. Now, if that's where this new rule leads, my opinion is subject to change.

You mean like SCV's "Castle on a Cloud" from last year? All pit, and no one else. Beautifully done moment

So long. Best of luck in your future endeavors.

The battery had no business playing at that part of that show (and the pit was playing plenty). It was aesthetically the right thing to do - and given that the battery then came out and played their arses off in the next segment of the show, it hardly put them in a position where they weren't contributing. I'd be happy to see more corps embracing that approach, making musical decisions that are right without being afraid that they'll lose points because they did the artistically smart thing. == The current system hands too much control of the score over to the design team (the visual team especially), and more or less forces everyone into a design box where the shows have to hit certain design touchstones in order to be considered "good." If the visual geniuses who drive the judging standards process were really artists, they'd recognize that a system that allows for the greatest range of experimentation is actually the system that will provide the greatest variety of results, because it provides the most freedom to create. Taking away points from the creative/effect side would actually increase the amount of experimentation going on. But that won't happen, as long as the current mafia of dominant voices in the room are who they are.

While I too was very impressed with Crown's techincal facility last year, we have to remember that difficulty lies in many different musical expectations. Playing a bunch of notes isn't the only way that a musical book can be difficult...just sayin'. Dan

I just want to see Phantom use a trombone as a weapon to kill someone with. Maybe like a sliding guillotine or spear thing.

Cadets 1999

And yet your "glory days" was someone else's death of drum corps. HIstory will continue to move on, with or without you. Hopefully you'll come back, but if not, someone else will take your seat at shows.

Because the level of the 1972 demand is so far less than the demands placed on the performers of today.

All things being equal... DCI Finals being on TV ( live or tape delay ) is infinitely better for the exposure of the activity than not to be on TV. I think this point should be inarguable it seems to me. Take a poll of all the current marchers in DCI this year, ask them if they'd want DCI to be broadcast on TV or not. Can we agree that over 95% would prefer that DCI be televised on TV than not be televised on TV ?.... As for the costs, the costs can not be absorbed now because the activity does not have the numbers of followers willing to underwrite the costs, and potential corporate sponsors that could easily underwrite the expense, have decided its not a wise investment of their dollars vs. expected return on investment. So there you have it, and thats where we are right now regarding the loss of TV exposure for the DCI Championships that were once in existence for a few decades.

Doesnt really matter how sheets are written...they have changed over the years and still have the same few at the top.....you can bet no matter what criteria is those at the top will still be there.....BD for instance will or cadets or whoever..will do what needs to be done to win yet again...cant fault them for that....now if one wants to get rid of competition then thats a different story ( maybe )....but then that really changes the activity way more then what some changes people are complaining about today.

Yeppir

Concert pitch is so annoying. Hear it all year long in concert band, marching band, jazz band. Very percussive and boring.

I thnik everyone would win their home show and the DCI champ would be determined by the location of finals each year.

2000 Cadets is a hands-down winner and, of course, BEEF!

More Mahler. Or Schoenberg. Or Sibelius. Stuff from the last century is great music

Cadets 2000 and Star 1985. It's Disney music. How can anyone not recognize that? I'd throw in 04 Cavies, 05 Spirit, 89 SCV, 06-08 Cavies, probably Cadets 2011, and Crown either 2005,2007, or 2008

If your audience is young, it might be a good idea to skew newer. So much of drum corps is the "I can't believe actual humans are pulling that off," and the 2000-present shows have the visual packages to really wow. 04 Cavies is always one of the first things I show new people.

I wanna hear someone play Malaguena. or Land of Make Believe. Or Legend of the One Eyed Sailor! Mmmm some Appalachian Spring and When a Man Loves a Woman sound good. Maybe In the Stone or Ice Castles too. On a serious note, i'd like to hear how Phantom would do New World if they did it again.

Definitely something that resembles a battle march, or something 'army-on-the-move' like. It was a huge focus early on. I don't know, maybe Boston Crusaders' Conquest. I also encourge you to show only individual pieces throughout the presentation. Full shows will likely be too much for even the most curious.

Malaguena - '88 Scouts.

Pick music that many people are likely to recognize and shows where the audience is clearly having a great time. Video that highlights the enormous physicality is good. Consider including just one song from a show rather than an entire show if it will help drive home those characteristics.

You are only kidding yourself however if you believe that a Guard could stand at attention along the back sideline, with their backs to the audience, for approx. a quarter of the show, not move a muscle, and still win a DCI Title.

No it doesn't. The DCI winning Corps has never had the last 30 years a GUARD entire section that has not moved at all in a quarter of show. We are not talking moments in each subsection section where there are breaks in the playing. We are referring to a entire Corps section.... over 30 members... not playing nor moving for approx. a quarter of the show and at the same time, not playing NOR moving. ( and I liked Cavs, 2001, by the way.. just making the point on the Visual/ Guard weighted more heavily over the Brass and Percussion). Now I'll grant people that this was not always the case. Corps once had Guards ( in particular the Honor Section ) that pretty much did not move at all during most of the entire show.. but the Corps brass and drumlines were weighted WAY more than the Color Guards BITD... but thats no longer true of course. Today, WGI has had an enormous effect that have shifted the current judging system point allotments in the build up judging system much more toward the Guard and the Visual and away from the Percussion and the Brass sections playing. It seems pretty obvious to me anyway.

You are a riot! lmao

I myself could care less about the "meaning" of a show. I just plain loved the music in both Cadets and Blue Devils shows those two years. Through a Glass Darkly is mty favorite show to listen to. Visually Hey it's great but for me the music is the most important. I could have done without the narration in Cabaret Voltare but I just loved that they combined music from two of my favorite shows and I also think it's cool because I had suggested that they combine those two pieces to Wayne a year before. (doubt that he took my suggestion but it's still cool)

in many shows I'll agree...1930, Mirrors...sure. not my cup of tea as a fan, but I get it. Dada, no, that one I don't get. and I'll be honest....I wasn't a honk for Crown last year either. I thought they tried way too hard to be super dooper intellectual at the expenses of the other parts of the triad.

So many things have been "THE DEATH OF DRUM CORPS!!!" What ever, sit back and enjoy the music, enjoy the hard work the kids put in and if you had better seats than me for Finals, go ahead and send me the tickets, I'll sure enjoy them!!!

on paper yes it's 50%. In terms of application and commentary, it IS skewed at least 60-40 towards visual. You've had DCI staff members say so in these forums

I see it as more of an issue that that to be honest. I see judges afraid to put the achievement number higher than the content number. and, IMO, in several cases the last few years, it's been warranted. Honestly, the best fix is to weight each box ala WGI in the A Class guard world, or percussion in the music caption. For the A Class, content is multiplied by .7, performance/achievement is multipled by 1.3. The judges still uses 0-100 to determine their numbers, and the multipliers create the spreads. it takes some of the sting away from those judges that just tenth everyone from each other.

I'd like to see a ballad in which the percussion section does all the playing and the horn line is tacet. Talk about something completely different.

Jeff nails it. And it's not just in DCI. In the related activities and sanctions, where simultaneous demand is a factor, music judges are a lot more consistent about factoring in how visual content impacts music demand and performance levels. The sheets are written balanced between vis and music. It's an adjudication issue, not a paper issue. Then again, it's only an issue if the member corps feel like it's an issue. Haven't seen much change on this front, so maybe they are good with the current training and application of visual adjudication. With that in mind, I would like to better understand what you mean by "flat." Are you suggesting removal of verbiage related to simultaneous demand, environmental challenges and layered responsibilities? If not, then what?

It's funny. People complain here all the time about how all the uniforms are starting to look the same. Crown does something about as different as it gets and people still aren't happy. Well, I guess you can't blame them for trying.

BYE!!!

A certain northeast Corps ( way before the 90's) was in a parade in their City and the parade stopped, their Corps stopped, and some young neighborhood toughs started tossing eggs, one hit a marcher, the Corps immediately broke ranks went up the hill incline threw some punches, the bag of eggs was retrieved from one of the young toughs, the young toughs ran off, and the eggs hit a few of them in retreat.. the Corps quickly got back in ranks as the parade commenced.. marched up the street and the next song played was... yup.... " Conquest ". Is this story an " urban myth " ? Perhaps, but more than a handful of people tell me its true, so who knows.

It's with huge excitement and pleasure we're able to announce that Kidsgrove Scouts Drum and Bugle Corps will be returning to compete in the Drum Corps Associates Championships in 2015! #KSDCA2015 Read more at www.kidsgrovescouts.com And view our announcement video at http://youtu.be/TPm3PANGX9w

If you mean that candidates don't always follow through on their promises, absolutely. And not just political candidates. it seems many DCI rule-change proposals have been predicated on false notions, like the idea that amplification would allow corps to save money by no longer doubling their pit instrumentation. If you mean that the voters change their minds during the course of the campaign, while of course that's also true, it may be less so than is popularly perceived. (Note to moderators: my subject is about polling, not actual politics!) During the 2012 election season, three separate polling analysts, Nate Silver of the New York Times (now moved to ESPN), Sam Wang at the Princeton Election Consortium, and Drew Linzer of Votamatic all held, based on their studies of all the polls combined, that various minor ups and downs reported breathlessly by the media were misleading, and that any actual changes in voter preferences were consistently too small to affect the final outcome (of the major race) they'd been predicting since the summer. In fact, Linzer correctly predicted the exact final electoral college vote as early as June of that year. Anybody arguing about truman's recent DCP poll (from whatever position) might benefit by reading some of the analysis by those three polling experts.

For the modern era that's what I was going to say, 2013 appeared to be a notch or two easier visually, but it also cleaned MUCH better than 2012 which was just insane.

To add to everyone else's points, DCI on ESPN wasn't super good either. Sure you got your DCI fill for free from your couch, but they really only broadcasted about 5-6 minutes per show. On the Fan Network, movie theater, etc., you get to see all of everything without announcers talking through the little slice of show that ESPN would broadcast.

Look, it's accurate. I don't care if you think I'm being dismissive. At this point, none of us know what the shows on the field are going to look like in June. We don't whether every corps will come out with the same instruments as last year, or if they're going to do a full Ohio State. But people proclaiming they're going away form DCI without actually knowing anything about the season just doesn't seem right. Why bail before giving anything a proper chance? You might find out you actually like it.

Why is it that people are so reluctant to see what is going to happen? With how late the rule change came through this year, there is very little chance any designer could have the chance to write in new parts. Or that a corps would somehow drop a bunch of members to bring in trombone players. Things will be pretty much the same this year are they were last year, and the year before that, and the year before that ,etc. Just because the designers and directors have the ability to do this stuff does not mean it will happen. A corps can do an entire field show based around "Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star," but they don't. They could do an entire show in a parade block marching at 64/5 for 12 minutes across the field playing "Washington Post." But they don't. The design staffs don't get their jobs for no reason. They're smart people, that know how to design a show. Maybe they do know what they're doing, and will use this stuff tastefully. But until it actually happens, everything on here is conjecture. Why not go to a show this summer? If you like it, awesome. Keep coming back. If you don't, then at least you have a substantiative reason to leave DCI. Not just a tantrum online.

One thing you can count on with the Swindells family... if they say it will happen - it will happen... I'm here for you...

Someone best inform Dinosaur BBQ in Rochester that the Red Coats are coming back across the pond and ensure to they are stocked up with plenty of food and beer!

Still drum corps to me. I am in it for the long haul. To hear a hornline like Crown is like Heaven.

Somehow, I don't think the purpose of this rules change was to get fans to yell at and insult one another. But I've been wrong before.

It's a shame you feel that way but it's truly your loss. The best is yet to come, I'm sure. The bar is being set higher and higher by corps and shows keep me entertained as always. I'm sure we'll see you back soon.