Leaderboard

PR is one of the few corps that allow their lead DM to actually conduct. Too many human metronome DM's for my liking.

Broadway. The writing is on the wall.

Atlanta CV Drum & Bugle Corps has made a key addition to their design team for the 2015 season, naming Jamey Thompson as their new Visual Designer. “Being named to the design team for Atlanta CV represents an exciting new challenge for me as a designer,” said the long-time veteran of the marching arts. “Atlanta CV has been a very solid competitor with strength in every caption. They are poised to join the upper-ranks of DCA, and I hope to be part of helping them realize their full potential.” Thompson, from Chicago, Illinois, has been involved in marching band and drum and bugle corps for over thirty years. In addition to his new role with Atlanta CV, he returns for his fifth season with WAMSB Champion Calgary Stampede Showband, from Calgary, Canada. He was Visual Designer for Phantom Regiment from 2005-2007 and 2011-2014; Madison Scouts from 2003-2004; and the Glassmen from 1997-2002. Previous DCA credits include Connecticut Hurricanes from 2008-2014 and Empire Statesmen from 2001-2006. Marching band projects include programs throughout the United States, including bands in Illinois, Indiana and Texas. Jamey graduated with a B.B.A. from Loyola University Chicago and worked in not-for-profit accounting and arts-management before dedicating his time exclusively to the pageantry arts. “We are thrilled to be able bring someone of Jamey’s talent and experience aboard to help us continue to raise the level of design we provide our members” CV staff coordinator Alan Armstrong stated. “His experience in both DCI and DCA bring a unique perspective to the corps which will fit well with our commitment to entertain while challenging our members to reach the pinnacle of their potential as performers”. CV’s Executive Director, Dr. David Stollberg said of the new addition “Jamey has a strong visual design resume added to our already talented design team. We welcome him on board Atlanta CV.” Thompson added “It’s a privilege for me to be a part of Atlanta CV for 2015. I look forward to working with the designers and caption heads to create a unique and exciting program that is true to the corps’ identity while also bringing my design ideals to the table.” Atlanta CV is in full preparation for their 18th season. The annual Membership Weekend is scheduled for December 13-14, at a location to be announced soon. Jamey Thompson brings over 30 years experience to the Atlanta CV Design Team. http://atlantacv.org/2014/10/01/1439/

No need to get in PIZZEN fight about This. YES, Many , Many , Many, kids have come and marched from Non North American Countries in our American Corps. Both DCI and DCA. Yes. DCI has had many at the DCI Championships with many Non North American Corps. BUT, two Non North American Corps have made DCA (larger) Open Class FINALS. ("Inspires" from Japan and Kids Grove "Scouts" of Great Britain) (OH. and bye the way a few years ago. The Reilly Raiders Alumni Corps went to Dublin, Ireland)

The problem is what one person thinks of as horrendous out of balance...thunderous goo...doesn't come across to another the same way. As I had stated earlier, I have been at shows where I then read reviews by some about how terrible the balance was...too much synth...thunderous goo, etc, and I felt as if I must have been to a different show, as I had no such issues with the overall sound. I just think a lot of it is the mindset of the listener.

Well speaking as a 'snobby European' I am not sure of what point you are trying to make. The reality of the situation in Europe especially as the topic was in relation to DCE is not as you perceive it. The development of bands and Drum and Trumpet corps into Drum and Bugle corps originated in the 1980's because thats when we became aware of DCI. Kids joined local corps as an activity. Nearly all were illiterate in reading music as it was not taught in the state school systems. Music was learned by ear. Even today in state schools and universities, music is taught to only a few and does not embrace genre's such as marching band or DCI. It focuses on choral or orchestral works as mentioned in previous posts. You will see an upsurge of Brass bands in certain countries as they were attached to local working mens clubs. This does not again necessarily translate into an interest in drum corps. If anything, interest in drum corps and related activities has declined over much of Europe as kids become interested in other things/ activities. You must remember that until this year children in England were only obliged to remain in education until the age of 16yrs. Most at that point went onto full time employment. Nobody is being 'snobby' or 'elitist'. DCE is what it is. It is a bunch of enthusiastic people having a good time doing what they enjoy and trying to entertain people as they go!

Lifetime anything is too long. Serial killers get lifetimes. I think DCP has delusions of adequacy sometimes. There - I said it - ban me. IMO DCP does little or no honor to this activity we've lived and loved. When you get past Guess Who and input from Frank Dorritie and folks like Kenny Norman, Andy Lisko, and a couple of others, much of what's left is third rate criticism, whining, and name dropping. With the exception of Guess Who I could pass on the site with no regrets. A Lifetime ban? Get over yourselves.

I love PR 80. Still the best year of DCI ever, IMHO.

I have to agree with the Soccer type dude. If you are not confident in your skills, you should probably start in a lower class guard, and work your way up to a world class guard. Winterguard certainly helps you get their quicker. My advice is don't look for what is easier, make it hard for yourself. The harder you work, the better you get. The more people around you that are really good, the more motivated you will be to get better. Rather than looking for the easiest, look for a real challenge to work for.

Despite personal preference, where do they go from here? Classical. There's such a wealth of great music from the classical period they will never run out of ideas, and no one does classical with "THAT" blend like Phantom does. Stick to your roots and what you do best. You own classical, Phantom. So, own it.

they go on tour

There were on and off rumors about 27th folding when staff members began leaving in the 1980's, but the rumors were squelched when Avant Guard and Memphis Blues folded and the members of these corps entered 27th's ranks. I think fans believed that if 27th did not make finals a second year in a row it would be the end, but it looked somewhat likely 27th would sneak in finals in 1986 since they had previously placed ahead of Troopers, Star, and VK, but late season bus failures led to a lack of practice time which in turn led to a close, but not high enough score in semi's. It was after semi's they heard they would disband which is why the had the signs for finals. People I knew who marched in 86 who claimed to have been surprised by the news said the bus ride home from finals was like a funeral, outside of the corps people were not surprised though I think we all hoped that this corps which survived all kinds of challenges would survive. Sadly it did not.

Naturally. The system is subjective, and it is the role of the judge to decide how severe an error is. For us bystanders, most errors do not rise to the level where we can conclusively attribute scoring impact to any one such error. The examples I provided, however, were sufficiently severe to affect the score in that manner. Usually, the recaps reflect such disasters when they are of a brass, percussion or visual nature. But when they stem from something electronic, that is not the case. Now, about "wet grass"... sorry, but wet grass does not cause falls by itself - only in combination with some degree of risky drill, positional error or lapse in technique. And even when there is a fall, 5-person pileups are usually avoided either due to the nature of the drill design, or the manner in which the individual recovers. This is drum corps. In drum corps, we do not make excuses - we take responsibility. Wet grass, rain, wind, sun in our face, bus breakdowns... none of these things are our fault. But it is our fault if we do not prepare for them. We all know wet grass is part of the game. Evening dew is enough to cause it, not to mention rain before or during a performance. But even the finest of venues, indoor or out, natural or artificial turf, will have spots of irregular surface where a sharp direction change becomes more challenging. Members know this in advance, and learn the proper techniques to maintain balance and traction. Designers know these hazards too, and thus know the risks involved in sharp direction changes, blind follow-the-leader-behind-you moves, tight spacing, and combinations of the above. I think I see what you are trying to say regarding "not the fault of the members", but a better example would be a judge running into a marcher, in which case the marcher being out of position would be genuinely excusable.

I'd put Bloo14 in the "Other" category because it did something different with the closer that was buzzworthy and capitalized well on the excitement of the show. I'd not count it as something for 'musical' or 'visual' though. Similar feelings about how SCV closed for 14. There was a nice soft effect with the disappearing corps trick and the sole guard member rising out with the book, but it was an "other" quality more than a pure 'wow' moment of visuals or music. Still thinking about what hits me for those.

I am hoping for: No story line no death no throwbacks no female empowerment theme/message yes bad ### music yes bad ### drill yes emotion yes balls .... or should I say 'SAK'

Some of it may also depend on the listener is sitting. So much volume coming from just a few speaker locations (relative to the overall brass and percussion sounds coming from 100 different locations) means that some people really are getting blasted by goo. And of course, the sound in a significant percentage of the seats at Lucas Oil really is terrible. Remember last year when people who had good seats for Finals were astonished by the poor sound quality on a video shown here of Crown's encore that was shot from upper-level seats? But that problem isn't particularly about the amplified sound being too loud. In fact, as I've mentioned before, what came through BD's speakers in 2012 ("Dans l’Arabie des trois midis, Des tours aux fronts de caïmans" and so on) was almost impossible to hear from where I sat--a friend watching BD's show for the first-time ever at Finals didn't even realize there was any spoken words. This may have improved their show for some listeners! But in my opinion, based on having seen many shows live since 2009 and checking my experiences later against recordings on CD, DVD, and Fan Network, the thunderous goo has lessened in the past two years especially, which means that there really was a balance problem before.

Re: Interesting that you mention 2 micronation & tax havens... lol If I had mentioned Monaco with Monte Carlo, SCV's bingo operation might feel insulted. If I had mentioned Andora, the same there at Mt. Diablo.

To be clear: have you heard the hundreds of tapes made the last few seasons of every corps to verify that no judge ever complained about balance? Have you been to critique and heard judges say something like, "yeah I just overlooked the egregious balance failure." Or are you going more on the thought of, "I thought it was loud but that corps still did well so there is a systematic judging failure." I'm not picking a fight or trying to be facetious, I'm genuinely curious. I've talked to staffer who have said their score was not what it could've been because of balance problems (both of the "too loud" and "too soft" variety). I've talked to a few judges who mentioned electronic failures as a reason why a corps maybe didn't achieve as high a score as they would've had the electronics worked (with the, "live by the technology/die by the technology" adage). I think just because it might not be obvious (i.e. Cadets are not going to go from second to fifth because their narration mic failed one night) doesn't mean judges don't take that into account when determining effect or music scores.

They should mix it up and do a reggae show: no helmets, just dreadlocks wigs. White jackets with a tie-dye circular pattern as a 'shield.' It would be a bold, fresh move for them

I agree; is there actually any hard market research that shows that these sort of performances actually lead to substantially new ticket or merchandise buyers? I suspect that thought is similar to the "DCI on TV = exposure to millions of more people" when in fact it didn't necessarily correlate in ticket sales. It's possible new people would discover drum corps through this type of event, and there might be anecdotal stories that back that up; but largely I suspect it would be a nice PR move, and maybe a fun day for the corps (if the members could wonder the fair after their gig) but not the most beneficial in the long run. Unless the corps was getting paid a substantial amount to make it worth their while. FWIW it seems as if may corps have stopped participating in I&E because it takes up rehearsal time, so it seems that is a pretty clear message that short of some sort of substantial compensation of some sort (doing gigs as directed by a manufacturer who sponsors them, doing a gig to get free housing or something, financial payment, etc) corps might not be inclined to do this sort of thing. When I was teaching a small Div. 3 corps who could use the extra exposure, performance opportunities, and/or pay the corps would jump at stuff like this; I guess it depends on how stable/viable a corps is (i.e. do they need to do something like this or not)

I wasn't personally there, but the people who were at Woodbridge were happy with the turnout at our booth.

Imagine a section with the guard dressed as nuns chasing the battery around with rulers!

Much truth in this. However, Concert Band teachers/conductors/directors are continually concerned with the balance of their groups, which contain both wind instruments and percussion instruments. In the end, they must seek to achieve a proper balance between the two disparate groupings if their ensemble is to achieve a maximally effective musical performance. Jazz Ensemble teachers/conductors/directors are continually concerned with the balance of their groups, which contain winds, percusssion, and electronic (guitar, bass if using the electric variety, synthesizer, and/or electric piano if not using the acoustical) instruments. In the end, they also must seek to achieve a proper balance between the three disparate groupings if their ensemble is to achieve a maximally effective musical performace. I, either in my naivete or ignorance, don't understand why the responsibility of the Drum and Bugle Corps staff is any different. To me, at the end of the day, Balance is balance. Imbalance is Imbalance. My greatest error may truly be in being too "black and white."

If someone has "old ears", as you say, they will think every corps in DCI is out of balance. That is a different discussion. There are performances which are clearly out of balance by contemporary standards. Some are acoustic imbalances, such as a corps with more battery percussionists than horn players. Or a large hornline that projects inexplicably weak sound. Some are imbalances involving electronics, such as a pit overbalancing an entire hornline, or a subwoofer cranked so loud that it distorts throughout the performance. Electronics can also be too soft, such as in cases where failure of connections leave a synthesizer or vocal mics inoperative, and those performers are rendered inaudible. When the imbalance is acoustic in nature, it is evaluated by the judges and scored accordingly. When it is electronic, no such scoring impact occurs.

This great article about the rigors of drum corps, preparing in the off season, and some audition tips was posted on the Cadets' page. http://www.austinfitmagazine.com/October-2014/More-Than-Just-Marching-Band/

Thanks Mike. As a non-percussionist, I was confused as A&E is also used for Arts & Entertainment. Again, I think you offer a great insight.

Very insightful and I agree with you. I've gone to a couple DCI shows and did not think anyone sounded unbalanced, thunderous goo and all. I started following DCI during the electronics era so that's probably the reason why.

One thing that I think has changed is what the idea of 'balanced' is with the addition of amplification and electronics. I am not privy to any inside info, but IMO a person can not listen to a corps with an ear attuned to what they consider good balance before A&E. An ensemble with electronic instruments and amplified percussion instruments will generate a different sound, but it may be balanced in terms of itself, while those listening with "old ears", so to speak, might hate it. Of course, it may not be balanced under those concepts either, of course. But IMO, a lot of the complaints on DCP about corps not being penalized for 'bad' balance is due to that change in the concept. Take the concept of 'thunderous goo' that gets thrown around here. I've been at some of the same shows as people who write about that happening, yet IMO the sound generated was marvelous, when taken in terms of today's sound. Could there be out-of-balance sounds? Sure, but IMO it is just not the issue some here make it out to be.

Wonderful points. Drum corps is extremely European, in the sense that the corps names and uniforms themselves are generally European in origin. I think people are imposing their stereotype of the snobby European looking down his nose at the gauche American on this question. That's like saying drum corps could never succeed in America because it doesn't fit the Julliard/Symphony orchestra scene or the Hollywood scene or whatever stereotype elite image you want to impose. But the just-plain-folks Europeans seem very much like the just-plain-folks Americans to me. From what I read, the conservatory/university systems in Europe and America are both changing to be more similar to each other in response to evidence that a broader curriculum (i.e. university based) produces better results. My only point there was that the quality of musicianship should improve as more serious musicians discover drum corps, just as happened here. And to the poster who said European drum corps has been around since the '80s, well so has American drum corps - the 1880s (C.W. Townsmen). The activity has had a long time to develop here. It's moving along quite well there.

"Symphonie Fantastique" or bust!

I think the OP was referring to the redundant use of boy/girl, love/hate, life/death themes. It's be nice for a change in storytelling.

Uh, '87 SCV would immediately come to mind. The "Russian Years" were some of Gail Royer's best days. And the corps'.

All we need to know was the year that Tony made the infamous introduction..... "From Trooper, Wyoming.......The Caspers!"

Brahms Academic Festival Overture. Start to finish, with no breaks. And WHAT A FINISH! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1E6FBi-AJw

Been a fan since 1973 ,love everything they do ,so i'd say just keep being Phantom .

this is NOT a one time issue with Don. he has been very abusive to people on here. when he and I first got into it years ago, first he trashed my corps, then me, and he didn't know me. threatened to kick my ###, threatened to get me blackballed from working with Rocester corps ( which was ok cause old man Bruni stiffed me $$$ so I wasn't going back up there anyways)....trust me dude, he can be a lot of fun, but Don was a major Ahole to a lot of people on here. this was far from a first time thing. Lots of people disagree on DCP, but most people don't send messages telling them their mom is a sweaty whore. I never reported him, but with #### like that, I can see why people did. Christ no one got that personal with me on RAMD back in the day

Thanks for the nice comments Tom. But, I think I've had just about enough of all this PC bull crap and whiney cry-babies with skin as thin as cellophane. Friends do have disagreements, but they don't turn on each other with vengeance. I think I'm done here. It's been fun and have met a LOT of really nice folks and couple not-so-nice ones. It's probably better that I take my leave for a while. Be well all. And hugs to Nanci! Ray

That's how he felt back when he walked Tom. I told him let it sit for a while and see how you feel. He agreed that his health is more important and when he calmed down he returned. Too bad the mods couldn't set him up for this thread only. He was comfortable here with the rules and us.

cool guys... and Ray... I hear you - as the one standing next to Vince Bruni in the parking lot of Clifton HS outside your buses as the beer bottles were broken... I appreciate your comments more than most... As I mentioned earlier, were Vince alive to read these comments, he would smile, say "Go Figure" and then give Donnie his bass drum back... Why? Because Vince knew his heart was always in the right place even if he had a definite problem with connecting his brain to his mouth... All that being said - and this is mostly for Jeff, my only argument is the severity of the punishment... Jeff, perhaps that term "lifetime ban" means a lot more to old farts like Don and I ... as we begin to deal with thoughts of the inevitable. A young guy like you with a beautiful young wife (Christine) and wonderful daughter to raise are a long way from having to live with that reality. I can tell you that Donnie can not read DCP on his home IP, but can on other devices by going around a few circles... but out of respect for DCP and GW and all of us, he declines to set up a new account under a different name - which he could easily do as long as he didn't log in from his main computer. Frankly, at this point, I don't know if he'd come back on DCP even if the ban was lifted. Considering his fragile health, it might be for the best. I hope the doctors relent and give him permission to fly home soon - so he can see his family and I can take him to breakfast...

There are lots of long replies regarding the demise of drum corps. To say that all or even most disbanded due to finances is not entirely accurate. Finances played a part, but it's not the entire picture. Churches: most drum corps sponsored by churches were Catholic. Prior to 1975, most Catholic schools were entirely staffed by nuns who were largely unpaid. From the mid seventies on, there were fewer nuns and more lay teachers. Priests in many dioceses prior to the 1970's were barely paid. From 1970 or so on, they were largely responsible for their own bills, had to pay income tax, and make provisions for retirement. There were also fewer of them, so the priest assigned to the drum corps no longer had time. If you are budgeting and have a choice for a to pay school teachers, parish staffs, and priests, none of whom are laughing all the way to the bank, or a drum corps, the school would win. I also say this as someone who is waiting for the $3,000,000 donation to be used at my discretion, $1,000,000 which will renovate and begin endowing the school, $1,000,000 which will endow the Church building, and $1,000,000 which will start the drum corps. I'm not holding my breath! Veterans organizations: Vietnam vets did not join many of these organizations until after the kids left home, if they joined at all. Keeping a corps became too much work and when you look at what the American Legion, VFW, etc. do, this is not a criticism. Shift from urban to suburbs: in cities, people used to congregate. This is less the case in the suburbs. This impacted drum corps. A bit of, for lack of a better word, complacency by fans. Many smaller corps had rather short runs, and another corps replaced them. In the Boston area we had the Malden Ambassadors that merged with the Heightsmen and I believe Annunjciators to form Royal Marquis, which then disbanded and were replaced by the Spectra/Heightsmen Alliance and the Diplomats that was replaced with East Coast Jazz. We often expected another corps would come along which may be why we now work hard to preserve what remains. I know finances killed 27th, Bridgemen, Teal Sound, Glassmen, and many others, but changing times also played a factor.

Glen and all you Whoers out there. I think we all know who got the Don banned. He says it was just a week, but I spoke with Don at length last night and communicated with a few others. This callous jerk has managed to get him banned for life and this for a guy who only participated in GW because he got tired of all the tripe and trash on some other threads. This is a guy whose health has not been the best for a while now and he gets his sole entertainment source snatched from him. Apparently it was due to some IMs sent which are supposed to be PRIVATE and not for public consumption, but those were used as the premise to get Don booted. Hey, over the years, and it has been quite a few since Don is one of the very first on this thread, he and I have gotten into some disagreements but never have I felt the need to go behind his back and report him like the classroom snitch. He and I have ALWAYS worked things out. I, as well as Don, are very passionate about our activity, the old days and even that into which it has 'evolved', but that passion is understood and we both know where the other stands when it comes to OUR corps ( Cru and Sky). Over the years there was some bad blood between our 2 corps, but we have always been friends, regardless of outcomes. Now it comes down to 'you can't call me a bad name and I'm telling on you' ( not the exact words since I am not privy to Private Messages), but that is what it seems. I think it behooves ALL of us here in Whoville and our Queen to call upon the moderator to lift the ban on one of the good guys ( most times) and allow him access to this thread once again. The other alternative would be to move this site to a private site or a group on FaceBook where we ( meaning Nanci ) could decide who stays and who goes. Yes, Don does go a little overboard sometimes, but don't all of us as well? Let us all do what we can to right this injustice to one of the most sincere and passionate members we have here. My guess is that now that Don has been banned we won't hear from his accuser ever again on THIS site. Sorry for the length of this rant, but I just HAD to get it off my chest. Bring back The Don!!!!! Ray

Tom, The Don got all worked up over a few things said a while back and walked. I talked to him via PM and we agreed, it's not worth getting upset over this stuff. Especially when there's health issues. Basically told him, come back if you can, but your health is most important. I don't have all the answers. Maybe in a show of solidarity we can have tee shirts made up: The Don Less Than Tactful But Loved By Many Whoers I wonder if he can still read things here....................I smell gasoline. :)

The only thing that bothers me is that his health SUCKS quite frankly (he'd admit that)... As a matter of fact he's fighting with the doctors to let him come home to Rochester to see the family and so far they're saying NO!!!! If he deserved it... so be it... but I'm just saying I never saw anything that I thought rose to that level and considering his health and his passion for the activity... like I said... it's a shame - and an aggravation he didn't need...

BRING BACK THE DON!!!!!

BRING BACK DON!!!!!

Well, I certainly hope that the person who got him banned at all is satisfied. I hope you never get on the bad side of anyone here, especially our queen. Don is good people and yes, like the rest of us here, is very passionate about the activity and his corps. Thanks a bunch, pal. Ray

Amen... I occasionally plead with the Queen of Wholand to take this forum to a webpage of her own, or anyone's that wants to keep it up. I honestly find very little useful on the rest of DCP. Like you I had issues with RAMD in the day - one guy wanted to fight me but wouldn't tell me who he was. Don is annoying from time to time - the next day when he read it, he realizes it and agrees. But honest to God, how some of these folks are allowed to have jobs or drivers' licenses amazes me - not going to get into listing nommes de plume but there's days (make that years) where if you read a thread where just 2 or 3 of the worst are posting, it's like marching behind the horses in the Barnum Parade - all horses ##### and horse ####. And wicked personal. I dig Guess Who - it makes me calm after a long day of work (have I mentioned I'm retiring in less than 2 weeks?) But I believe that DCP is responsible for 2 of the 3 blood pressure pills I take each day. Fisher is responsible for the 3rd. Let's start a "Bring Back Don" campaign... Then when they let him back in we'll break his balls for a month or so.

Don's doing well... he has been banned from DCP for life... I just can't imagine what must have preceded that... he's ticked me off plenty over the years but never enough that I won't call him "friend". If John, Duane, Kevin or anyone else from DCP - all of whom I admire - would care to privately explain why such a drastic action was necessary against an old retired drum corps guy whose passion for the activity sometimes gets the best of him, you know where to find me, but I personally have never seen anything on DCP from Donnie that justified a lifetime ban... but hey, it's their sandbox and I choose to play in it so play by their rules... I for one was a victim of the early days of RAMD and appreciate a monitored forum... and avoiding the utter chaos of a few sick individuals... That being said... there's a huge difference between being sick minded and passionate about the activity. In his heart, I assure everyone, Donnie is a good drum corps guy... Donnie says hello to everyone and has authorized me to give his email addy to anyone who might ask for it.

I'll make sure I'm comfortably seated and not driving anywhere when I take on that stuff this year!!!

I'm glad someone brought this topic back up. I want to say bravo to the Crown colorguard. I am amazed at how much they improved from the beginning to the end of the season. Great work!!!