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The Mini Corps winner ... Sorry ... just hadda do that ... :-)

Also, the guard is waving those big brightly colored fabric things around, and throwing those large pieces of wood sky-high, so they better not be the dirtiest section of the corps.

you only have to show a skill enough to show you can do it well, then move on and show other skills. if you keep showing the same skills over and over again, eventually, you're opening yourself up to where flaws will be spotted.

But it DIDN'T happen. In 2015, among record attendance, your concerns did not take place. What must be changed to accommodate your fear that something bad will happen, when it hasn't. I have asked it now for multiple pages and, yet, no one, not a single person here, has answered the question "What made 2015 such a successful season?". If we can't answer that, why are we deciding fixes for imagined problems that only may lurk on the horizon? Why not instead focus on trying to duplicate what happened in 2015?

When the DCI sheets were redone the time before last, DCI Rules Congress, by vote and recommendation of the guard caption committee of the official voting member corps decided to adopt lock, stock, and barrel (suitable pun) the WGI standards of evaluation and rewarding of color guards. At the last Rules Congress, there was minor re-shifting of some verbiage but no address of how outdoor color guard for drum corps differed from indoor color guard for WGI. My contention is that this topic has to be addressed as the idea of General Effect and reward, Visual design and reward, Demand on performer and reward, and integration of all elements of the show has evolved from the score sheets of 1980 (20th century) to what we have seen in 2015 (21st century.) Thus the guard caption has to be considered in 2016 not 1980. I am not saying there should be more evolution. What I am saying is that one can't put a round peg in a square hole unless the peg is smaller and the hole larger. The color guard in 2016 is more than single spinning flags and rifles in 1980. What it means to integrate the guard into the 2016 show needs a greater discussion and consideration. I also contend that this is a different environment doing it with live brass and percussion in a visual movement in an outdoor arena or NFL stadium than doing this in a standard indoor basketball court.

First, can we all admit that we're using a bit of hyperbole in referring to a sixth-place percussion line, with a Finals score of 18.95, a score which is solidly in Box 5 (what would be a clear grade of "A" on a test) as "woefully ineffective"? Second, you keep saying that G.E. is equivalent to show design, for instance in this post where you refer to "adult-created Show Design (GE)". Can you prove that they are the same thing? What on the sheets supports this claim? Third, this statement you've made probably needs some further consideration: "Performers can effectively perform and execute their playing better than anyone (1st place in percussion even out of 45 Corps), but if adults let them down by giving them a subpar show design (GE), no amount of highly effective, superior, performer performance execution such as 1st place (percussion )can save the corps from the lemon the adults put out onto the field." Would you really want it any other way? If the design didn't matter, then couldn't the musicians just play the most difficult but boring technical exercises while marching super-challenging but boring drill? Isn't there a risk that evaluating execution above effect will drive away audiences? Do you know why "figure skating" has that name? For those who don't: it's because originally, a large part of a skater's score in competition came from demonstrating how well they could skate a certain "figure" (like the number "8") on the ice. The judges would then closely examine the marks that skaters left in the ice to make sure that, for instance, circles, were perfectly round. However: "Pressure to reduce the weight of compulsory figures began when the Olympics Games and other skating competitions began to be widely shown on television. Television coverage posed major problems to the compulsory figures for two reasons. They were not considered appealing to television audiences, with even the most ardent skating fans finding the completion of the figures, followed by seemingly microscopic analysis by the judges, to be tedious, and the general public held even less interest for the figures. In addition, skaters who excelled at compulsory figures were often not the most talented at free skating, but sometimes accumulated such a large lead from the school figures that they won the competitions overall. Such results would often leave general viewers stunned because they had watched only the free skating and had little or no knowledge of the compulsory figures." (Source.) The compulsory figures counted for 60% of the score until 1968, and were reduced in importance in stages after that, before being eliminated entirely in 1999 (in the U.S.; most of the rest of the world had abandoned them a decade earlier). I have a friend whose daughter had taken up figure skating shortly before that, and he's always been disappointed at this change, because she was quite good at figures. Most of the audience, however, had no taste for such fine execution, no matter how much discipline it required. Now, maybe it was wrong to let the audience's desire for entertainment change that activity. Maybe the skating purists should have stuck to their principles and let the audience go hang. I'm just saying that there may be consequences to putting execution first that aren't being considered.

That's how it works for musicians and actors at all the best symphony orchestras and theatrical companies, right?

Fantastic. The stands will be littered with proud parents. They should hAve plenty of room to spread out.

Who says there HAS to be a competitive spirit? I know DCI is a competitve activity overall but how competitive you want to be should be up the individual corps. Personally, I like that there are competitive corps who focus so sharply on medals (BD) but I also love that there are corps who are more interested in putting on a good show while making sure the members have a good time. There's room for both and every corps doesn't have to conform to your ideals. If enough people agree with you, then eventually they'll cease to exist because no one will want to march with them. So far Pio and Surf seem to be doing fine so I wouldn't worry so much about it.

you're right it wasn't always 40 points. color guard also wasn;t factored into the score either. Imagine that....at times 1/3 of the corps didn't even have their caption count until what, 2000?

I dunno, I just always liked it when Uncle Fester stuck the light bulb in his mouth and when Gomez wrecked his trains. Cousin It and Kitty Cat, also faves. I'm sure Cousin It marched with someone....

whoever scores 2nd on down

seeing Lillith ( Cheers) as Morticia is funny

please just the 60's TV shows. I mean this is the DCA forum, anything after 1970 is all band to some! LOL

New brass instruments have such a large impact on programming. :-)

How about Bebe Neuwirth in the Broadway musical....

After seeing the last four posts on here where we have difficulty remembering what time or what day LAST YEAR something may or may not have happened in Rochester or Annapolis, it amazes me how our memory improves dramatically when we begin a sentence with "BITD........" or "at the '57 AL prelims......"

From Spirit's YouTube page. Spirit's "Inside the Delta" series will feature behind the scenes stories about Spirit of Atlanta and Drum Corps history as told by members, staff, volunteers, fans and supporters of the activity. Please help Spirit of Atlanta continue to enrich the lives of young people with a tax-deductible donation at www.soaaa.org. https://youtu.be/PtWSuT1SWh8

All I know is... Morticia is hot in every one of them.

I heard that they played snippets of the planned music for the members and supporters, BUT... ...wait for it... ...it bombed.

This stuff about announcing early, or late, or whenever brings a chuckle. Cadets can play " Jingle Bells", and medal. BD can play " a House is not a Home ",.. " Say a little Prayer for me "... One less Bell to Answer " etc, the pop collections from the 60's Dionne Warwick and such and medal. Its not what they announce in music at all, imo. Its what the Show Design will be. And thats all in the Visual realm, When Cadets decided to announce they were playing " Jingle Bells" as a song or BD " Say a Little Prayer for Me", what real difference did it make in the overall placements later ?.. or even in the overall fan excitement levels regarding their shows these seasons ( both Show Designs had them both finish 2nd. ) Or when BD announces their theme will be " constantly risking absurdity " do we learn anything with this? whether it was announced in November, or April Fools Day in April ? When Bluecoats announced their show was " Tilt ", did anybody here tilt till they almost fell over with excitement ? Sure the music ballad ( " Anxiom " ) had potential, but how many times have we heard what someone would be playing, then we heard the arrangement and we were thoroughly disappointed in what the Corps did with it ? Or conversely, we shrugged our shoulders when it was announced as a Corps a musical selection, but then loved the actual arrangement and presentation of it when we got to hear it and see it with the Visual / Guard in the summer ? I don't care what a Corps says they'll be doing. Nor when they announce it. Just play me something live from camps..... and more than a 10 second teaser too. Forget this teaser silliness. Play something. Make it 5-10 minutes worth from camp, I don't care if its just Corps brass line exercises. This off season secrecy nonsense is so counterproductive to growing the fan base, imo. No sport or youth endeavor can grow a fanbase when there is a 40 week black out of hearing something substantial from these Corps each and every year now. Who are we kidding that we think we can rapidly and consistently grow a fan base operating in this fashion over time ?

More and more I see people on DCP saying things like 'The adults have more to do with the outcome than the kids' or 'the design is what is being judged' or 'let's put the emphasis on performance rather than design' or some such. The implication is that this has somehow gotten worse over the years. Didn't the great instructors of the past have just as much to do with show outcome as today? Can we imagine the success of Spirit without Ott? Garfield without Zingali, Prime and Aungst? BD without Downey and Float? And so on and so on. It seems to me that we should want better design because it gives the performers more opportunity to succeed. I doubt what we want is to have a situation where 150 kids are shown a football field littered with instruments and equipment and are told, 'Okay, it is up to you.' I also don't think we want all the corps marching the same show so that we judge performance alone. So has there been a change over the years? Do designers do too much designing? What is to be done to give performers more of a hand in the outcome? Or is this all because BD won yet again?

I&E Schedule finally released: http://dcacorps.org/?p=4315

Josh Scott Has Stepped Down as Visual Caption Head for Phantom Regiment

Might as well put it here. Sister started a new job at a bank and was talking to one of her co-workers. Turns out the co-worker has a cousin who is a JS horn instructor. That bit of info was followed by "I sure miss seeing DCI Saturday night on PBS". Sis almost fell out of her chair. Don't know what's wilder, this DC connection or the fact that my sister is an asst bank manager (on a Horticulture degree).

It's probably Cabs fans and members goofing around. No one ever takes these goofy polls seriously.

There are some that would say you could do worse. Much worse.

Eww, no. That was *awful* last year.

I guess I don't understand why there has to be a total and complete disconnect between competitive success, and providing the members the laid back happy go lucky fun time vibe that everyone keeps talking about. Personally, if a corps has no interest in ANY kind of competitive success, that isn't attractive. I can understand not having it as the top priority, but little focus on it at all? Leaving the motivations of the corps aside, I feel like there are things on the design side that are not setting them up well from day one. Like I stated, their weak drill, choppy (you could argue they're fun) and non flowing arrangements. I also think the seemingly non progression in performance level between around Atlanta/Allentown and finals week not very attractive. If that's how they want to roll, that's fine. Just hope they'll get comfortable in that fighting for semifinalist territory, because with the rising level of Open Class corps, that's where they're staying with the philosophy they seem to have adopted. Pioneer this year stuck with a similar take on what they usually do, but made changes and adjustments that made them a much stronger corps in their performance levels and product. Surf should do something similar.......... I feel like they owe the members a little more to provide them with a stronger product (THAT CAN BE FUN), and push them a little more to try and be a stronger brass line, drumline, color guard, and WORLD CLASS corps.

now don't use logic and slow down his steamrolling of reality. you'll kill all offseason entertainment on here

the judges have specific criteria on their sheets. who chose that criteria? the corps.

if it isn't effectively performed, it doesn't matter what the adults did. If it isn't effectively performed, it doesn't matter what the adults did. IF IT ISNT EFFECTIVELY PERFORMED, IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT THE ADULTS DID! I have been saying this for years. it doesn't matter what the adults design if the kids can't perform it.

What he said. You're calling for the operation of someone's mind? I fail to believe they thought they were gonna come out winning it all. The current drum corps climate doesn't allow such thinking and I don't believe Cadets would EVER feel that way. No, it's primarily because so many people are always negative about what they decide to come out with so there's no point in coming out early with a show concept. Where did you hear this?

Since so many of the posts in this thread are one person making the same point again and again and again, I'll repeat a metaphor I've used before (in another thread): a corps winning the championship through superior execution of mediocre show design would be like an actor winning an Oscar for beautifully reading from the telephone book. Presumably nobody wants that.

I never forget to remember 8/31/96. Happy Anniversary Westshore!!

I don't think John claimed GE was a "performer based execution caption". The performance portion of the sheet is 1/2 of the sheet, but it is not an execution subcaption...it is the performance of the show to generate the intended effects of the written material. Does a swing-written piece swing as performed by the ensemble? Does a high energy-designed piece of material comwe across that way in the performance of the members? If a moment of the show is designed to generate pathos, does the performance of the ensemble bring that element across. It is not about "execution". Of course the performance of the show has to be clean enough for the desired effects to be audible or visible, but it is not designed to be tracking the execution aspects of the book.

Presenting their 2016 show, "This is Spinal Tap", The Cadets! They did do a "stonehenge" show after all...

oh shaddup you expert

I hope they take it to 11 next year.

Now you mention Larry King and multiple marriages, how about this guy? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Manville I've seen his personal Limo. Leather fenders, enclosed passenger compartment with curtains and an intercom, Lord knows what that old Brewster would tell you about what went on back there.

Well....based on the number of DCA titles they've won in their history, I would say they've been married more times than Larry King!!!

Conversely, if you'd given BD's show to SCV's members, they'd have fallen on their faces from the word go. Design and performer go hand-in-hand, which is the point you're missing.

No, it's part of the reason they are contenders every year. The other part is the fact that no other corps performs consistently at such a high level. You know, what this thread is supposed to be about.

Frankly, your post is perfectly lucid.

Never fired once.lol..and if one really knows anything about this small activity those who get fired even a few times dont last long in the activity let alone having longevity for decades..How .Pathetic..and what does that have to do with the thread Dan

IMO ... neither ... I find peace and solace in Classical music ... when was the last "classical" piece written? ... don't know ... don't care ... I cherish the deep layering and slow pace of the musical constructs from the sweet sound of a gypsy violin playing in contrast to the deep vibrating tones of the bass ... then harmonies coming in from the left and right, mounting to a forte of sound that boggles the mind ... my wife finds it humorous that I can find solace in such a style of music, knowing the reckless abandon and relentless "power" I was associated with during my years in Drum Corps, both Jr. and Sr., actually relaxes me ... I agree with all those who profess that there is no one answer ... each decade (era) has its own unique personality ... I know what I like ... and I know what I don't like ... but I rarely pontificate ... because each genre is being presented with a different intent - and a different audience in mind ... So ... here we are on a Friday at 1:00 (my time) with a few glasses of vino and some fine homemade pizza to stimulate the melancholy rant (is that an oxy moron?) you read above ... Just do me a favor ... keep playing ... for yourself if for no one else ... :-)

If that's WayBacBucs opinion, then it is what it is. I don't particularly care for rap music, but there are LOT'S of people who do. For me to say it's not music just because I don't care for it is a little close minded. But again, it's just an opinion. Present drum corps, old drum corps and even ancient drum corps is still drum corps. We continue to have alumni corps performing at shows, to show what the activity was and how it's evolved and that's a good thing. This way current performers get a first hand knowledge of their roots that they might not have gotten. If you only catch a minute or two of a performing alumni corps and don't enjoy it, that's ok. You still got to see what it was. Many if not most performing alumni members would be still out there in todays corps if they could. LOL LOL

Had it stayed the same presentation style as 1982. It would have been dead long ago. Back to your cave dinosaur. Either find a way to help (start a corps, start a show, get on a board, raise some funds for somebody...etc etc etc), or go find something else to do in your retirement and stop scaring off business.