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Clearly biased because you weren't hanging crusader molding.

OMG, who F-ing cares?? I taught the Glassmmen hornline back when they first made finals. Of course I wished they'd all stay, and I taught them about loyalty and building their own brand. Most did. But the few that went on to higher-placing corps remained my friends, and I was very happy for them. My first go-round with Bluecoats brass (2006-2011) saw similar things, except the retention was much higher. Again, for the 1-2 members who switched (and not always higher!), we remain friends and I was happy for them. Then I taught SCV 2012-2015, and back at Bloo in 2016, where I met one member taking the corps switch to a new level: three years of SCV, then 2016 at Bloo, and this year at BD. I'm certainly going to miss her, after investing 4 years in her drum corps development, but I don't begrudge her one bit. I wish I had done the same thing! In fact, fundamentally, if we were to REALLY put the member first, we'd ENCOURAGE corps switching, just for the sole purpose of learning the diversity of ideas out there.

The IRS considers donations to a general scholarship fund to be deductible as long as it's shown that the class of those eligible to receive those scholarships is broad (and not pre-selected). A member sponsorship, where a specific individual benefits from the support, would be considered a personal gift, rather than a donation to the charity. It's the same difference as between donating to a local food pantry (which is deductible, as long as they're a recognized 501(c)(3)) and buying a specific homeless person a cheeseburger (not deductible). The end results might be similar, but the mechanics are different.

And that was one of the areas of law I was referring to (anti-trust) which makes me believe that a court would throw out any clause (clearly or ambiguously written) which demanded a pay-back of the scholarship for one year based upon the choice of marching in future years.

Self-awareness is a good first step.

Good gosh, I keep peeking into this thread today and I still see dumb comments from DCPer's, who seem to have abandoned all logic. I implore you all who are trying very hard to make this a BAC vs Crown thing to knock it off. It isn't that; no matter how hard you try to make it look like that. What it IS, is an issue about the validity of language and a financial demand stemming from a "scholarship". Which in and of itself should be fairly clear cut, but apparently this particular one MAY or MAY NOT have a stipulation requiring a long term commitment. THAT has several other ramifications. What for certain is NOT KNOWN, are the details of the contract the MM signed and the scholarship offered. What is NOT known is the language and if there is anything binding the two documents to one another. So all the BS being spewed forth by DCPer's saying the BAC should shut up and pay the fees owed need to understand; NO ONE, not one person on this thread had provided any conclusive evidence of a contract or scholarship. No copy of a document to show if there is a custom contract or a DCI standard contract. No one has provide even language of a contract or scholarship, to prove what the MM commitment was or if money is actually owed. DCPer's being adamant there is money owed need to PROVE their contention. They haven't yet and can't but they can keep itching for an argument as they have been throughout this entire thread. Ridiculous statements like "these kids need to read their contracts and know and fulfill their commitments and pay up". Grab hold of reality and review a contract with a kid and you'll realize they are kids. easy for us adults to lay the blame on a kid who supposedly didn't read a contract. Has anyone here ever signed a contract to discover there was a clause that didn't favor you in any way? This IS a bigger issue that begs clarity. First how does a scholarship for a youth activity is demand payment scholarships when someone moves to another organization. Were SERVICES RENDERED for the past competitive year that the MM did in fact fulfill? If it were my kid and a corps tried to demand payment for a scholarship, I'll see you in court and I'll sue your butt off. If the corps demanded payment for fees owed per the contract, I'll send you a check. No question those fees are owed. And I don't think anyone has been contesting that; so again get your information right. For the record and if I read this correctly, the Executive Director of BAC called CC and asked if the MM in question owed any fees to CC. He was told there was a revoked scholarship money was owed. That is part of the story that has been downplayed in this firestorm and is an integral part of the question about scholarships. So unless you know specific details, stop spewing all you "know" about what occurred/transpired, because you like me and everyone else on this thread, KNOWS NOTHING FOR CERTAIN about the contract and scholarship and who owes who what. Thanks for indulging me and now back to my beer. Hope you all are having one as well. If so, heres to you.

Now that was a great game. Tom and the Pats are from another PLANET.

2016 Santa Clara Vanguard

Scouts 2001

Blue Devils 1996. Up close and personal... and LOUD. Madison Scouts 1975.... that huge hit to start "Slaughter" from a mile away on the back sideline.

This is absolutely correct. If a donor gives money to a non-profit, either with the stipulation that it be used to pay for a particular activity, or that it is meant for a particular season, then the accountants consider that money to be "temporarily restricted", either for "purpose" or for "time". In the former case, it doesn't become "unrestricted" until the organization undertakes the requested activity, and if the organization does not do so, the donor should be repaid. (There are also "permanently restricted" gifts, e.g., for an endowment.)

This is in my opinion no different than when others had to read (several times I might add) your hypothetical conversations over and over again.

As long as the donor is kept in the loop, I'm down, cuz the donor created the condition NOT THE CORPS. (This not a subtle thing, but it's being glossed over.) technically the donor should get that money back!

When emotions would have crushed another team. That's what champions are made of. Amazing.

I'm glad tesmusic brought that one up I had forgotten about it.

That is very true. But that problem can be abated by having camera operators and producers that know the activity and what to look for. FloMarching obviously did not. The detail of shot selection and timing everything perfectly won't be like it is when TB and crew are doing DCI shows. But it would be better than FM where they would do a 20 second long closeup of a kid playing rack in the front ensemble or linger on a guard member doing an equipment change behind a prop.

I think they should do what makes them happy and what makes sense for them.

However, as far as I know, this whole idea about Crown's scholarship policy (which we actually haven't seen other than a reference in an email) being affected by donor intention was was just a hypothetical proposed by garfield early in this discussion. It's quite possible that Crown put this policy in place for other reasons entirely.

This I do know.... after we (DCA's Sunrisers) had won two straight DCA titles, 1977-78, we picked up a few "ring chasers" in our horn line for 1979... and it wasn't helpful. Well... that, plus the Buccaneers having a great corps in '79 and cleaning our clock. LOL

If, as you say, this is actually a tin-foil raiding conspiracy using the MM's as pawns, it's quite amazing that we haven't heard some similar planted "Me,too!" comments from ex-Cadets members now accepting contracts from BAC. Maybe we won't. Yours is a sad perception of the leaders of the activity; I don't think a single one of them would use their kids as pawns to punish the leadership of another corps that out-foxed them. Maybe I'm naive.

2009 Blue Stars was an awesome show. One of their best, IMO.

Well, generally I come here for CorpsBands memes.

This gets really hard for me from 5th - 10th. I wouldn't be surprised to see the really tight grouping that was 7th - 9th (Blue Knights, Phantom Regiment, Blue Stars) in 2016 expand up and down some. I don't see a ton of reason to move any of them down any and could see more than a few below them move up.

I'm rooting for Atlanta...

Sometimes the grass is greener on the other side.

There are lots of reasons to "switch sides." Drum corps of today isn't what it was. I've seen people change corps to get a different perspective so that they'll be better educators, for example, or to follow staff they really like if that staff member happens to get hired by a different group. There's also usually a trickle up to the top corps because if you're 20 and want to keep marching, chances are that the corps you started with isn't really challenging you as much as you'd like. Bottom of the pack corps tend to have easier material and younger kids. Nothing wrong with that, it's just how it is. Older folks move up to be with their peers and to be given material that reflects their skill level.

I'm not biased, so I can say with total objectivity here that any marcher from Carolina Crown or Cadets that wants to march the Boston Crusaders should be freely allowed to do so... and conversely, any former marcher from Boston that wants to march Carolina Crown or the Cadets should be held down by a Gang of 8 and tickled to death, or until they come to their senses.

More strong corps would definitely be a good thing.

Not sure how to read that comment, so I should perhaps note that I'm in the "the members should have read the contract" camp in this discussion (presuming the contract isn't misleadingly written) and that while I do have Boston listed as one of my two sentimental favorite corps on my profile, the NE actually should be read as "any".

It is Super Bowl Sunday. I am putting the rest of the day on hold. Go Pat's.

I want a shoot out type game no matter who wins, but if the Pats win, I will be adding to my Boston professional sports teams post game championship ball caps collection.

Isn't it the true spirit of a donation? To donate, not for self indulgent accolades, but to help. It is disingenuous to me to make a donation with a stipulation saying here you go kid, but you owe me.

BC retired his number this year. he came for the ceremony.

Probably not, imo. We had a poster yesterday... " Slingerland ".. claiming that these former CC marchers were hoping to skip away undetected and get away with not paying and hoping " they wouldn't get caught". That was pure" fiction" The " truth is that Boston immediately contacted Crown when these marchers made a spot in line at Boston ( usual protocol ) to determine if they owed any past monies to Crown . My trusted sources tell me the marcher , parents genuinely thought they were free and clear of any past monies due back to CC . But in any event, there was no attempt to try and" get away " with anything on the part of former CC marchers and parents, and " hope they won't get caught". The poster" Slingerland" in his" alternative universe" who was informed that his narrative was " BS " fiction never even retracted it, nor apologized for the false narrative. So until posters live in the real world here, I'm not all that optimistic that we won't delve onto a fictionalized trail on this thread on occasion here moving forward.

I have been sponsoring members in different corps for over thirty years and many of those members moved to other corps after a couple years. I have also given funds to many scholarship funds. Sponsorships are not tax deductible but scholarships are only if they are not for a particular individual. Donors should never get their money back under any circumstance. I don't care what the individual or the corps does with my money. Contracts are awarded in the fall and winter months. Most scholarships are awarded just before spring training or at spring training. A corps has no way to know if a member is going to need a scholarship until they fall behind in their dues payments not when the contract is signed. No member or parent should sign a contract with Crown if a revoking scholarship provision is part of the contract. We are talking about a corps here that collects thousands of dollars in registration fees and camp fees from hundreds of auditionee's that have no chance of making the corps. This is petty and vindictive on Crowns part. Crown should redo all of their 2017 contracts.

SPIN

They need to do what DCI does for livestreams. DCI even posted a YT video of it. And whoever did BOA livestreaming before (MrVideo?) did a fine job.

I am surprised by this speculation as over the years I've known Crown kids who have marched their next seasons with BD, several others with Cadets, another with Cavaliers who announced mid season that the person was being awarded a scholarship to pay his way in the arts in the many forms he was involved. Likewise there have been kids who left BD, Cadets, and other corps to march Crown. Sometimes directors mutually accept each others transfer MMs (I'll take yours, you take mine) and work out back due monies on a case by case basis. But just as MMs change, so do administration and corps financial standings. I comment because part of how I know this info is from previously supervising several drum corps scholarship funds, most now defunct, one which awarded to applicants who marched in 8 different DCI world class corps . One fund was super specific as the donors specified the corps and put contingencies that the money was to be used for college tuition and/or marching with that corps only otherwise the monies would have to be repaid. Several situations developed where recipients changed their corps affiliation; only once did a person not repay those funds and has not marched since. In fact, most recipients as older adults later replenished the funds through their own donations. I also was a participant in the original two DCI Rule congresses with their conversations which debated and then crafted the corps transfer policy. Most of that policy is still in effect 45 years later. What is different is that written contracts between corps and members, particularly in their legal aspects, is fairly new within the past twenty years of drum corps. Those contracts vary by State law where the various corps are based. Additional stipulations vary from corps to corps. Perhaps it is time for DCI to revisit or devise anew a standard contract with common understandings and definitions which could be applied for use by any corps. The matter of scholarships is not the same and is different in each example and jurisdiction. That more specific common language, definition, and mutual understanding is needed would be appropriate for each corps but could also benefit the full activity.

I'd gladly pay 3 to 4 times as I did for FloMarching this fall much for great quality.

lol the thread is there for all to read. there were a few objectors, many sympathizers but nearly every poster said in effect "sucks -- they should have read the paper before signing" or similar.

Oh yea it was! I have to be careful about saying dumb things on here and I hope I do not embarrass my son as he plays a very key role in the 2017 BD org. I am very proud to say that he is going to teach BDB pit next year. I love the blue devils.

OK, who has the Samsung7?

but someone's phone is burning a hole in their pocket. BURNING I say

We don't need no stinking spots!

1965 Chicago Royal Aires

Blue Devils get an 11 from me. Calling it now, all jazz show.

Dear Lord : Please forgive those who post on here their open letters to anonymous people they do not know, and who know not them. They mean no harm in their open letters to anonymous people. Yes, we realize they used this site to avoid postage stamps too. But they are simply expressing their frustration that the same corps win all the time, and I'm sure even you Lord find vexxing that nasty Blue Devil from time to time. So heres hoping you will understand where this frustration is coming from, and if you should find it in your power to have a penalty at Finals next year at Indy instead of the Quarters for that nasty Blue Devil, we would be eternally grateful. Thank you Lord.

Dear vets: Please, for the love of all that's holy, do what YOU want to do. Do what's best for YOU. Maybe you want to stay with your current corps. Maybe you don't. Maybe you think you'll fit in better somewhere else. Don't let anyone talk you into staying (or going) if it's not a decision that you are comfortable with. Maybe you have a dream. If you do, chase it...or you'll never forgive yourself. It's not about the ring. It's about accomplishing your goals, and setting a tone for the rest of your life. Your DCI time is finite. Make the most of it. Signed, Someone who stayed when he shouldn't have, and then left while he still could