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There's a lot of pain when your corps folds. I know this personally. But my anger is directed at those individuals who committed the malfeasance that killed it. And, the enabling that went on. My Mom asked me why it was all happening, and I told her, "People were willing to go along and ignore all of the red flags because the corps was gunning for a championship and didn't care about the long-term future of the organization." On that tangent, What Keith discussed and what Brian Tuma discussed on another thread as well as SG recently: I've given a lot of thought about this. It's definitely the culture that exists and has existed. The activity is very result and win driven. Why are some of these people on board? They're perceived to get things done and that they're effective staff members, and there's an attitude with some people that to make an Omelet, well, a few eggs are broken, and well, those broken eggs aren't really corps material. There's also a very in house Good ole Boys' network in place. "Oh, X has a problem, well we can keep X under control here and they're great staff people, we'll give them another chance with our corps. We can keep an eye on them." Why? they figure they can win with this individual on staff or as a performer, just keep a lid on it. People who turtle up about the dark secrets or shun those who speak up for fear it'll wreck their corps are playing into the hands of the abusers and enabling them. It's one of the tools of their trade. "Don't say anything or you'll be blamed when the corps gets sued and goes under." To me, that's evil incarnate. One can't knuckle under to that mindset. Lord, I've got my dander up. And everything in the second paragraph has happened somewhere. Some of it, I've seen personally. You want to turn your back from it, shame on you. This (insert colorful noun here) has to stop.

I'll preface this by saying I agree with the spirit of what this person posted in general. But, as somebody who was there, they do not know what they speak of with the Cadets regarding Hop. Of course the abuse was there before him, because lets face facts: the abuse was, and is, everywhere in the activity. No corps is immune from it. The cycle didn't start with Hop, but he codified it there. He was dug in like a tick. His grip, an ironclad stranglehold. He was in charge for 34 years, more than one third of the corps' existence. He enabled the abuse there for those years and directly took part in it. Once he took over anybody who marched there can tell you: Hop's culture was the corps culture. Outside the abuse, that culture generally was "work yourself to absolute death if you have to in order to succeed." The work was literally all that mattered. Not people, not physical health, not mental health, not nutrition, not safety - work, even at the expense of all of these things. That was the lesson he wanted us all to get. With that culture, they won 6 out of 11 years with incredible performances. We all bought into that culture. We were flat out treated like dog sh** - and we lived for that experience. Looking back on it I see the absolute insanity. I would never let anybody treat me like that here in my adult life now. But I let them do it back then. Because they were the champions when I showed up for my first audition and I was not. I was a kid. I knew nothing. They're the adults. They must know. This is how you succeed. I must be wrong. I'll just take it. Removing Hop drastically altered the organization and the culture. Immediately. The members from 2018 - 2023 were genuinely supported and taken care of to a degree we never were. It was a valiant effort. It was imperfect. But it was far better. Abuse is everywhere in the activity. Hop made the corps an even easier place for abusers and perpetrators to thrive. I hold him directly accountable for that.

You know, alot of this reminds me of that famous Hollywood director who raped a 13 year old girl, WAS charged and found guilty, and fled to Europe before he was due to "turn himself in". There were tons of Hollywood actors and other elites who were saying he should be excused because he was an "artistic genius". The ME T00 movement ended that. Just recalled his name...Roman Polanski.

There's no reason for his comment at the moment.

When I was in high school, I thought and said the same thing, that I would laugh if some "military dude" yelled at me. Until I went to boot camp and this Chief who was built like a Winnebago got in my face. I did a lot of stuff......laughing wasn't one of them.

This is the raw sentiment that most closely resembles my own. I don't wish the end of the honorable portion of any legacy, but when you've experienced firsthand, and been told numerous accounts of, a legacy of abuse that has never been compassionately or honorably addressed by leadership anywhere, I believe such sentiments are warranted. If anyone wants to hear Rand's full commentary, which I cut down in my previous comment, they can go listen for themselves at DCAF. It includes their well wishes to the Cadets alum and community in addition to what I included. So does the rest of the commentary by DCAF. Otherwise, I encourage those who clearly wish to do otherwise in my thread, to remain survivor/victim centric. I won't be responding to known trolls, enablers, or apologists here. Rand offers real solutions that I'd never dreamed of proposing on DCP because the voices of apologists, enablers, and flying monkeys always get honest discussions shut down. I reposted Rand's commentary here in hopes of giving it greater visibility. Same with the commentary I quoted above. Even if OP has changed how they feel, which is understandable, the sentiments in this commentary are fair and shared by others.

No comment.

My brother told me Boston, at non major contests that had inspections, would sometimes have several drummers and horn players switch instruments and positions.

No male entering with a shirt like that would ever be searched for contraband.

Or a puffy shirt...

Jay Bocook is listed as a design consultant on BK 2024’s staff page 👀

I was just shadowbanned from reddit for sharing my MAASIN report of abuse/neglect at the Santa Clara Vanguard a few decades back. https://www.maasin.net/blog/open-letter-to-the-drum-corps-community-megan-de-roiz-yankee This was after some anon user, who is on DCP and reddit, decided to call me out under my anon reddit account for being anon there but not on DCP. That is also considered bullying. Most people who aren't whistleblowers have no idea the lengths we have to go to stay safe. This was also after I was told by a different DCPer that I really should take that break I said I would because my recent posts have been "immature." Just know, DCP: I get bullied here and reddit regularly. I watch as other survivors are as well, and try to reach out to them when I catch it fast enough. These were my chosen platforms because I thought I would be heard and honored. In many cases I have been. In many others, unseen by most because they're hidden in private messages, I have been demoralized. Some of you may have even witnessed some of the bullying before mods removed it. While most of my interactions on DCP have been civil, the ones that have been toxic have been really bad and have challenged my mental health... often over trivial matters, which is the easiest way for trolls do their thing. They can't argue the facts of our stories so they go for low hanging fruit. All in all, this doesn't help create the open, supportive community needed to advance safeguarding in drum corps. I've watched as at least two or three survivors I know across platforms just withered away from them in frustration and exhaustion... because fans and some rigid alum are unwilling to treat survivors with the respect and dignity we deserve. We aren't perfect and I don't pretend to always be right, but there are foundational ways of treating survivors that help us feel safe, heard and welcome. This community and reddit are not showing that they grasp those fundamentals yet, so, you'll continue to see us fade away and abuse will continue unfettered. At worst, you have survivors who (1) endured lasting injuries and humiliating harassment .... who then (2) do the work of acceptance and moving on ... and who (3) also want to return and enjoy some of what we used to enjoy in the activity ... only to be harassed again by trolls from inside the activity AND by fans who are unable to accept the complexities of abuse in this industry ... THIS MEANS THAT SURVIVORS WHO WERE HARASSED AND ABUSED WHILE THEY WERE MARCHING ARE RETURNING TO COMMUNITY FORUMS ONLY TO BE BULLIED MORE. Are you okay with that, given this is a youth education activity? We, survivors, are tired. We're frustrated. It's your turn. If you had/have a good time while marching, it's your duty to honor and support those of us that didn't and how are fighting for change. 👀 If you're a fan, you're just as responsible for doing this or your money will continue to go to groups that aren't protecting young bodies and minds. I'm not sure if the report of abuse in Raiders this last year has made it to DCP yet, but it will soon. This is far from over. P.S. Do you want to know what makes me the saddest about this whole thing? The more I share, the fewer SCV alum want to be in contact with me. My "family" wants nothing to do with me, it would seem. Is that how it's supposed to be? Is that how your alum and org treat you?

The Madison Scouts are so old that they forgot they existed prior to 1938. Evidence of their activity in 1920 was just recently brought to light. On the all-age side, the St. Peter Govenaires go back to the late 1920s.

[bookmarks post for the “why did I buy these seats and extra water? I missed a corps because I had to go down and up all these steps to use the toilet” post] 😅

It was soooooo stressful and often times you could smell the booze on their breath. So gross.

It took every bit of effort I could muster when I was 14 or 15 years old to not just bust out laughing when one of those old timer, probably an ex-Marine DI VFW inspectors would stand right in front of me and stare me up and down.

With as many corps that have folded over the past 45 years, My guess is that it's possible that the majority of former performers on DCP are in this situation.

Been going every year for 11 years now (well, one of those years was in the Vanderbilt stadium, which honestly I enjoyed a little more, but that's another thing entirely). As others have said, it's a great venue! Bowl stadium with ample parking and room. Expect a lot of area high schools, lol. Two things to keep in mind: There is ample parking, but be prepared for a bit of a walk, especially if you park on the wrong side. Also, they usually run out of bottled water by the intermission - plan accordingly.

Yep. Inspection was always fun. <sarcasm off>

Governaires 1927

To be honest, the REAL low bass sound (not enhanced) has been missing ever since the move to Bb. I don't know if it's a byproduct of the move or arrangers simply don't arrange in a way that produces the low bass sound.

I’ve been going since 2000. Love the show. Only negatives are that it’s usually hot and the band kids are oblivious to their surroundings. May miss this year as I’m probably going to Orlando for the City vs Barca friendly.

Another oldie. But long dead. The Norwood Park Drum and Bugle Corps was formed in 1928 by William Widmayer, who was their director and first instructor. The corps was a community-based parade corps, located on the northwest side of Chicago. The corps was one of 14 started by Widmayer at the request of local community

I think the current oldest WC drum corps is Madison Scouts (1938). Not sure if there were any inactive years for Madison but in terms of the year they were founded they would be the oldest now.

Very excited for the upcoming season. Excited to see what the staff changes will bring to the table.

Lol. Bro, this guy was massive! When he came around the temperature dropped 20 degrees, because he blocked out the sun lol. He wasn't a Drill Instructor, but he was one of the Cadre that "Greets" you when you first arrive at boot camp on the bus. My bus pulled up, and immediately the Cadre start yelling and screaming for us to get off the bus and causing mass chaos, the Winnebago Chief started rocking the bus from the outside, almost tipped it over......by himself. You weren't laughing in his face. I don't care how rebellious of a teenager you were LMAO.

I said that wrong as I often do. He made the reservation yesterday for July. 😂

Maybe he wants to make a test run to get the lay of the land & make sure the steaks are rare. Or medium? 🤷‍♂️ I think there's a Longhorn Steak House behind the Embassy.

Well that’s a somewhat ironic comment.

What makes you feel this way? Has there been any indication from them?

Yeah, exactly. Anything going on that no one apparently knows about?

The separation of the deeply flawed artist from their art is a tough call. I think Woody Allen and Polanski are despicable but I have to admit that I still watch their movies. And i didn’t flinch when Crown played Liebestod last year. https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20130509-is-wagners-nazi-stigma-fair

Four here if you count the two that merged, plus the merged corps itself. Wasn't so broken up over those as I was the fourth. Had my most fun years there both marching and instructing.

Jim made a reservation there. In April hahaha.

I walk about five miles a day so walking is good with me! I have a smart knee now. 😂 I picked tickets way up top just so I’d have to walk up a lot of steps. The water thing has me a little worried, though. I think I’ll get there early and buy a few bottles.

Somebody from the Kilties just posted the recap from the VFW Finals in 1970. I had completely forgotten that back in those days, along with the regular captions of GE, brass, percussion, and marching & maneuvering (visual) there were also captions for Inspection and Cadence. Yep, the "good ol days"! Btw, you younger folk might recognize the top corps: 1. TROOPERS 2. BOSTON 3. CAVIES

I find myself watching 85, 86, 88, and 1993 more, then listening to them, ( audio only). The visiual and drill in those shows fascinate me. 91 and 98 are two shows I often listen to in the car or other places where I am not watching the show. The music in those shows, particularly Short Ride in a Fast Machine and the ballad, remind me a lot of when I was first getting into drum corps and marching overall. I’ll throw in 2001 as another show I listen to. Not one of my favorite shows overall, but I can listen to that show all day. The music in that show and how it’s played and mastered by the corps,

The post was repeating a quote from MAASINs founder…. As for suing is often the last resort, same thing said about Spirits current troubles. Person reporting went to management and complaint was supposedly buried. As for attacks towards the accuser, saw them myself on Spirits own FB page

Reviving this thread to post a segment of Rand (MAASIN founder)'s statement regarding the end of the Cadets. Thank you DCAF for giving them a platform to say the right thing to a wider audience. Emphases, bold, italics, are mine: "You don't also get to claim simultaneously all the history and victory of the Cadets while washing your hands clean of the abuse that happened. The announcement statement from the Cadets regarding the corps folding essentially says that the corps folded because of the recent lawsuit from an alum who was sexually assaulted in the 80s. Blaming the recent lawsuit as the sole reason the organization folded, knowing the kind of environment survivors in marching arts deals with is deliberately opening up that person to further abuse. Further abuse because I was already seeing a bunch of disgusting, vitriolic comments directed at them before the corps folded, I can only imagine what those people are saying now. This sets us back. Many of us, obviously myself included, have diligently worked to make drum corps a safer place. We should be past the fear that reporting will make people think that you just want to see the organization fold, and you just want to see drum corps burn, and you'll be blamed for the uncaring actions of boards and admin. This statement from the Cadets remastered that fear in 4k for hundreds if not thousands of people. I'm also seeing a lot of people blame George Hopkins. I understand where they're coming from and obviously you all know I'm not going to be George Hopkins defender, but this isn't solely his fault either. In my opinion, looking at George as a the sole downfall of the Cadets is likely how the board landed in this situation. Removing George from the organization didn't solve the issues inherent to the organization because George was part of the problem, not the whole problem itself. The actual problem is that the Cadets organization became an environment that enabled abuse for many people, not just George. Obviously I've never been involved in the Cadets organization, so please take this with a grain of salt, but if any iteration of the Cadets truly cared about survivors as much as optics or finances, they would've handled this differently starting in 2018. Disclosing being a survivor of sexual violence is difficult. People have a lot of reasons for choosing to step forward or not to step forward. But for every survivor that stepped forward, there are probably at least as many that chose not to. Even more difficult is choosing to initiate a lawsuit over it. No one has a good time in a lawsuit and the courts are not kind to survivors. Choosing to sue or engaging with law enforcement often just retraumatizes people. From my experience as a sexual assault counselor, and also being on the MAASIN support team, lawsuits are usually a last resort. When someone gets to a lawsuit, it's likely that the organization failed in a lot of steps in making amends first. Imagine in 2018 if people in our community, but especially in the Cadets board and admin, put as much effort into support survivors as they did in trying to distance themselves from George. Imagine the idea if we took a corps fundraiser seriously and we crowdfunded for counseling for survivors. Imagine if organizations facilitated gathering feedback from alum and survivors on what meaningful change in the organization looks like. Teasing out what's tradition and what's trauma can be difficult for some people but it's a worth endeavor to invest time into. I can't predict the future but if survivors are adequately supported, they are probably less likely to resort to suing to get their needs met. The lawsuit cannot be the only reason the organization folded. There's always more than what's the statement and we know that the economic conditions that we're living in present a huge challenge to drum corps across the board. The person at fault for an organization folding is never the survivor. This is a natural consequence of a board and admin that chose pride and profits over the people the organization is built on. ... Just remember, it was not the survivor who did this."

Why?

That’s not unusual

Actually, I think all of us aren’t as young as we used to be.

You have made a profound observation, one that goes to the core of why this is so disturbing and awful, even as the abuse on its own is a tragedy.

funny though the years where BD had the most hatred were the first years in the recent dominance.....09, 10, and 12. yeah 15 and 19 were tight, but the hatred wasn't at the level of those 3 years

My impression was that the chemistry that corps had was unsurpassed, in the sense of everyone buying in completely to the concept and the staff and MMs figuring out how to perform both as a single organism and as individuals empowered and with the responsibility to create specific characters and personal moments within the larger show context. While MM technical skills might be argued to have improved over the last decade, that chemistry is always the gold standard for any corps.

look i have 20 years here, everyone is stuck with me. you're an upgrade to the place

W/R/T sexual assault (or any kind of assault really) the jurisdiction where it occurs is where it will be investigated & potentially prosecuted. As Drum Corps travels through the season, any incident would need to be reported almost immediately, before the Corps leaves for the next show site. For assaults that come ‘out of nowhere’, the victim knows what happened is wrong, and can get Corps leadership & law enforcement involved right away. More difficult are cases where the victim is groomed; it seems that it sometimes requires time to pass before the victim realizes what happened is wrong & that they (victim) did not (or could not) consent. In these cases, Corps leadership certainly can act against the offender, but from a law enforcement angle it could well be difficult to prosecute.

Out of curiosity. Do any of these reports lead to legal repercussions? change happens when those in power are afraid of losing something. Be it their control, or their bank accounts. have reports lead to repercussions of any sort? Beyond the repercussions of public opinion?

Concerning that you were shadow banned but not surprised. The Reddit community is full of ill will. Were you told by the admins what rule you "violated?" Not that it matters and don't feel obligated to post a response as you are under no obligation to any online community with the exception of following posting rules (which from following your posts over the last few months, you absolutely do.) Much as with any social media platform, the trolls are typically what I would call the "loud minority." Their tactics of gaslighting, bullying and narcissistic baiting are the same as what they use on all of the other platforms. You cannot win these battles as they have one intention which is to harm. I do not always agree with every aspect of every post. I DO however, try to have a meaningful dialog and find common ground. This is always the hardest part to address in words. I had a good experience. I cannot honestly remember any of what would be considered abuse. Tough words, sure. The time was different but that isn't an excuse. Performers and staff should be cared for and protected. I have offered my services to help create documentation and even curriculum related to the safety and welfare of members. I do this for a living in the corporate world. As I have no experience with abuse, I can only offer my empathy and what skills I have gained over many years of corporate life to help mitigate abuse and harassment. In my mind, that is how I can best honor those who are survivors.

For the purpose of archiving this somewhere on the internet that hasn't banned me yet... ...and for the benefit of any other survivors and whistleblowers out there who need breadcrumbs... Here's what I've attempted to do to communicate my story to wider audiences: (1) Released through MAASIN for broader coverage and in-depth whistleblower support (they were the first to listen outside of my small alum circle and loved ones) (2) MAASIN shared through social media (Twitter, Insta, FB), it dies within days, no discussion (3) I shared the MAASIN link on DCP prior to 2022 season. Experienced immediate bullying/ignorance about how to support whistleblowers from users, inactivated the account for fear of doxxing: (4) I shared the MAASIN link on Reddit prior to 2022 season, was given an award by anon user and then shadowbanned. You can only see this if you have the link or know the title to search: (5) Link to recently shadowbanned account/post on reddit. It had thousands of views and plenty of upvotes/comments before I was shadowbanned: (6) In an attempt to be more subtle (failed) and to rekindle some of my love for this industry, I rejoined DCP and am sharing this one last time above. Where else are we supposed to go except away?