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Wow... brass porn.

i like this one the best

The 4th valve is the same as 1+3, but allows notes played with that combination to be more in tune; normally 1+3 or 1+2+3 are naturally sharp. It also allows for more low range.

Well, I suppose I'm going to hell now. But this one made me giggle.

I didn't take any umbrage with your use of Fred Morris (of the Troopers, not to be confused with Fred Morrison of the Crossmen for those trying to follow along!). I got your point, so no worries. I guess my next question is this: Can you count on me for what? Going to shows? YES! Talking publicly about what I hear is coming out of certain corps' leadership? Nope. Can't do it. I will always let the Troopers organization represent itself when it comes to their business. I am very happy to work within the bounds of alumni business and do what I can to support the corps, but I would be mistaken if I thought it was my place to discuss the opinions of anyone associated with the corps. Having said that, do I think most corps would benefit from a more open presence in places like DCP? Personally, my answer is "yes." I think part of the problem we face as an activity is a lack of info-dumping. I think DCI and drum corps (plural) need to saturate as many forms of media as possible and demonstrate what they do. Leave the "why we do it" for those special reflective moments and just let people experience it. We need more public video access - viral video is a must. We need drum corps embassadors who can read their audience immediately and speak specifically with that audience with great facility, sincerity and charm. DCI and corps need to generate easily-digestible language that speaks to various fan bases and tweak the message accordingly. As for the "one solution," I suppose I have some thoughts there, too: 1. Level the competitive playing field by trimming off some points in the design-oriented captions. Give more control of the points to the bodies on the field. 2. Take out the synths. I won't lie - I don't like them, period. I gave them a shot, and I think they are pointless. (not trying to start the debate - we all know where that will go) But I actually have what I think is a logical reason to eliminate them: They aren't entirely controlled by the bodies on the field. It's bad enough that design teams are part of the scoring process, but now we've got a staff member directly controlling balance in competition. I don't like that one bit. 3. Do something, ANYTHING, to stop the slotting from year to year. Make outcomes less predictable and people will want to watch. That's just a few starter ideas.

Wow! You wouldn't be in business for long. I have been in retail for over 30 years now and have seen many many retailers fail because they didn't recognize what the customer wanted and that the custome IS ALWAYS right; first and foremost. It isn't the 11th commandment; in retail, it's the first commandment. And don't think DCI isn't a retailer; they are selling a unique form of entertainment to a very limmited market base, although sometimes they aren't very entertaining. As a customer, I want to be entertained. I want recognizable music. I want MEMORABLE music and I want memorable creative drill design and spectacular effects. And I want it of high quality and clean. If I don't get what I want or if the value of what I get is not meeting my demands or expectations, I'll stop going to shows. Overall it is getting close to not meeting my expectations.

Well hell, why have any identity in the era of the instant gratification generation? Why march at all, wear uniforms, spin flags etc.. I mean after all drum corps is only what the individual thinks his/her personal experience is right? I can tell you right now if you don't know who the heck you are, where you came from, you SURE as heck aren't going to know where you are going. You mean to tell me that drum corps never "evolved" from where is began? That it in SOME tangible way could be related to by most everyone up to about the 2000ish year? Are you telling me that the designers would NOT have progressed under SOME sort of limitations that they had used for quite some time? History says different. Besides, you are right music DOESN'T stand still, it has gotten worse..and easier..and people have noticed. Besides, if YOU as DCI don't know what you are and what you are trying to do HTF do you expect others to follow that?!

La Releve Musicale is the feeder corps for Les Stentors from Sherbrooke. I think they still alive. I am the program coordonator for a group from the subburb of Montréal for 3 years now. The name of the group is Les Ambassadeurs de la Montérégie. We are not planning to tour this year, but we will do a lot of show and parade in the province of Québec and in the northeast of the USA. This year, we are planing to go out with 12 brass, 6 drums, 6 pit players and 12 colorguard. Our show this year is a tribute to Carlos Santana. We are a young organisation and we want to put everything in place before touring with DCI.

BK higher than 11th :P

It's not just because DCI isn't listening to the customer...it's because they aren't listening to the VAST majority of customers. DCI does have many customers, but the overwhelming mass of them have been fans for longer than 7 years...back when electric was a no-no. Those that marched in the late 90's are considered dino's now...those people are only 32 or 33 years old. A 1980 age out marcher is now only 51 years old. It's not like the fan base is eroding because of deaths. Adding electric had nothing to do with drawing in new customers. All it's basically done is force (yes, force) corps to spend more money on toys. It's just an attempt (and a succeeding one, so far) to turn drum corps into elite BOA. Those marchers from the 70's, 80's and 90's, and heck, the early 2000's didn't march BOA in the summer...they marched drum corps.

Very few things in life are "necessary" yet many things are desired. I desire the occasional stick trick regardless of whether or not it is meaningful to the performance. On that we will have to agree to disagree. I also don't need an aural interpretation of a *Doctoral Dissertation on "An Analytical Study of Bass Drum Sounds" when I listen to a drum solo. It doesn't really need to accomplish anything for that matter either, after all it's just a drum solo. Just lay down a good groove with some clean notes and an occasional stick flash and I'll be happy. It's drumming, not rocket science. * DDM index no. 1588, University of Northern Colorado, 1982

There's an old "Peanuts" comic strip in which Schroeder says to Charlie Brown "I can play everything Brahms and Beethoven ever wrote, plus an abundance of Brahms and Bartok." Charlie Brown replies: "Last night on television I saw a man play the piano with his nose." Schroeder looks out of the frame to the reader/audience and sighs. Peace, Fred O.

I don't think most fans want DCI to become this ( no brass ), nor this rather slow cadence. That said, this does have it's fans, and we can't deny it. There are over 2.2 million views for this. Not sure if any DCI Corps comes close to this much interest on Youtube. But do most fans want DCI to copy this ? I don't think so.

So my Cadets example is a case of where a DCI designer perhaps kept showmanship in mind and got criticized for it. No matter what these guys do, there's going to be somebody who doesn't like it.

Awesome! :D

It does not get any better than this. Thats what I am talking about.

Interesting. Now I'll have at least a partial answer to my on-going question, "What exactly do they make at that Eastlake plant?".

A lot of corps use the notch system. Good for king, less work for brass staffs

You know, screw news...and other preguesstimates. 1. Pioneer 2. Blue Devils C 3. Blue Devils B 4. Blue Devils A 5. Star of Indiana 6. Bridgemen 7. The PhilharCORPSmonic (my fantasy corps) 8. The Entertainment Effect Task Force 9. Avon Marching Band 10. INT 11. Brett Favre 12. Antoine Dodson

6th Sweet!

Well, it isn't as simple as it sounds. Not in today's activity. How do you "shorten" the tour now? - Regionalize? Sure, it worked way back in a previous millenium. But we've let both the number of corps, and the competitive parity among them, deteriorate so far that it is no longer possible to achieve comparable market success staging shows if the corps are sequestered into five regional tour legs the way they typically were 15-20 years ago. - Shorter season? What does that do, really? Cuts both costs and revenue. I would trim that opening Texas weekend off the schedule, as that's a cost-intensive way to start the tour. But after that, I think we need to address either the number of corps or the competitive disparity issues first. And the solutions to those aren't obvious either....

I love how everybody ignored the point Hrothgar was trying to make. Trololololololol

The Plymouth Canton Educational Park Marching Band won BOA grand nationals with a show entitled Thought Crimes: Music for an Orwellian Era. It is a really neat show and BD could probably do something along these lines very well. Here is the link:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fD0Xvzrulug

predictions you can bank on: whoever scores highest wins. if someone doesnt like a corps show, they are a hater. if someone doesnt get a corps show, they'll be told to research and stop being stuck in the 70's. if someone doesnt like BD's show, Plan will tell them it's because BD wins and they want someone new. if anyone criticizes a rule, MikeD will say we need no rules. the passion of the season will probably see someone get banned, and several people get suspensions. people in the DCI Forum will call DCA people old and out of touch. people in the DCA forum will call DCI people young punks with no respect for history. People will ##### if a show isn't done by late June. finals night the place will crash as scores are announced. at Allentown, you will hear someone warm up during a ballad. I will make sure to ignore Facebook chat when watching Fan Network live broadcasts. I will write a review for DCI or DCA or both guaranteed to #### someone off. Bawker will have great smart ### comments Lance will play devils advocate for the sake of playing devils advocate. Someone will like waffles, but be told Belgian Waffles are better and have more depth. I could go on, but this should be a start

there is no one cure all miracle. it's several small pieces all coming together

OK...closed!

I would just be excited for the changes they've made to the design for a possible peripheral out of the left eye.

I think (only based on source music and rumors for vanguard) that both are designing a bit out of the comfort zone. The real question is will it work? Thats always the fun part with taking risks in design. They are either really cool, (IMO Bloo 2010, SCV 2009) or not as well received by the public (Bloo 2009, SCV 2010). Both corps had elements of risk with their programs each year, and both found a different level of success.

Then listen to the Concerto for Orchestra. Bartok is a VERY undervalued composer.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us! Mike P.S. I think you might really like this year's program from them.

The word "challenge" isn't really fitting in this instance, as the implication of challenge usually refers to overcoming difficulties on the path towards an eventual favorable conclusion, and that, after looking at trends within the current activity, seems to be ever more elusive each year. As to the three ... problems? barriers? ... I'd put the activity's total failure in attracting and training green, trainable and loyal local-area rookies to the activity as No. 1. No. 2 would be the unapologetic scorn and even mockery leveled towards the activity's history and its participants, so fashionable among its current participants. No. 3 would be the activity's stubborn reluctance and unwillingness to change policy in the face of its drastic decline in sheer numbers since the 1970s, and worse, its proclivity to blame everything except the activity itself.

I’m guessing a copy of Roberts’s rules of order won’t fix this mess But I’m in agreement with all the other G-8 supporters, fans and friends on here The problem is 1. DCI Administration 2. DCI Administration 3. DCI Administration 4. repeat 5. 6. 7. 1,266. We need better fans, not more fans but better fans. People that are educated about the product on the field and can really appreciate what the top marching bands are trying to achieve. Fans that will actively and unquestioningly support the designers' vision. Fans that won’t yell at shows and wreck the DVDs. Fans that won’t have hot dog corps. Better fans will equal better support

I think it's time to add some people not involved with running a corps or formerly having run a corps.

So then sorry I spoke my thoughts... thanks!

The weather couldn't have been better this weekend, well it was a little chilly (50 degrees). Tampa Bay Thunder concluded it's 2nd camp of the 2011 season with great stride. The corps was able to run thru the intro of the show and the ballad. The corps had a larger turnout this camp, especially in the lower brass! The corps plans on marching around 90 members plus drum majors and honor guard. The drumline made major strides this camp in talent and also got to play on their new set of Mapex drums for the very first time. You can see photos from the camp here. Thunder will be hosting it's next camp on February 26th, 2011 at Land O' Lakes High School starting at 10am. We still have a few spots open in the corps, so all are welcome to attend. The corps will be having it's first public appearance in March at the Tampa St. Patricks Day Parade. Come check out the newest Open Class corps coming to a field near you!

well...any other names on the design team and I'd agree. But these guys know Crossmen. They arent guys trying to be super creative for the sake of being super creative. they have drum corps pedigrees and did great work with the corps before. In fact, shy of Krempasky and Thurston being back, I doubt anyone else would have excited me

Indeed.

Why?

Still very confused. Maybe I'm more used to thinking in this mindset (and no, I've never "hurt" myself from thinking), but I fail to see how thinking outside the box and wanting to attempt something completely different, and see where it leads, is such a destestable idea I'm glad we've rightfully ignored people who've said, "It's just literature. Stop thinking so hard!"

It does not. It does not show that, but that is a possibility. Did you mess up your negative operator parity there? You're stating that taste has nothing to do how people react to a moment, but I disagree in that there are varying degrees in which it contributes, some much more so than others.

I think you're missing the point entirely, along with most responders in this thread. The results of this research would simply be a guideline. Show designers already have numerous tools available for use in the repertoire to generate effect (some, I feel, haven't been used in years and deserve a return). This would simply provide results to add the toolbox, and maybe reevaluate what's already in it. I'm not proposing some radical idea here by any stretch, but most seem to be turned off by the mere thought of the implications of such a study. It must have something to do with people refusing to accept just how mechanistic and analyzable these reactions can be.

agreed. some alumni may bash the YEA years, but the move was a bitter blow to more than a few

I would have gone with consistent and flowing musical thoughts myself

I wouldn't call me depressed. I'd use fatalistic

best lolcorps ever! FTW

Let me focus on one thesis at a time.

Please identify.

No, I don't. I thought I made this clear, but apparently I didn't. I never made such a claim. The only mathematical claim I'm describing is a method for comparing the similarity of two different arrangements. I NEVER made the claim that you could scientificaly "prove" that one arrangement is inferior to the other. This is getting really frustrating. Please, before you comment, make sure you understand the extent of my claim, and stop spreading misinformation about what I'm saying. We were having a worthwile discussion about arranging style, let's try to get back on track.

...You're quoting another poster and attirubitng his words to me? Really?