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It always makes me laugh how many people choose to rip on what BD does every single year with regards to show design. The staff/organization of BD knows more of the "in and outs" of this activity then the "arm chair directors" that troll around here in DCP......BD has won more than any other corps in the history of the activity.......so am I basing their success off of the win record.....partly.....but look at the organization as a whole.....BDA very successful.....BDB very successful....BDC....competitively, not "successful" bit they are little kids..but are they entertaining...ABSOLUTELY.....so one organization running 3 successful corps....plus now add in all of the international travel / clinics that have been going on....BD is an amazingly successful organization all around. It would be awesome if the amount of people who come in here and rip on successful groups would put that energy into helping lower placings groups or groups that needed some help with their background organizational issues...... If you feel the need to share your knowledge then you might as well do something important for the activity......BD doesn't really need your help....find a corps that does

I was just thinking we haven't had a "I hate BD show designs" thread in too long. I guess now that we're, what, a month from their first competition and a couple months from their "final" version of the show being performed is the PERFECT time to critique the show design. Yea DCP!!!!

I am a 43 year BD alum who loves the direction they have taken the last few years and can not wait for this years production! Even more so this years BDB production!

special congrats to my good friends Allen Buell VP of DCA and Vic Kulinski DCA South Director on their election to the World Drum Corps Hall of Fame others elected were: Bobby Hoffman Ray Fallon Dale Adair Rita Macy Bernert and Presidential Award Winner Bobby "kid" Bellarosa Welcome to a very exclusive club guys and congrats on great careers...

I agree. The future of Drum Corps rests with the younger generation. The Boston Crusaders have been efficiently run of late, and their new hire, and its broadened ventures announced, appears to have positioned this Corps well for the future.

I'm glad that an alum is saying what a lot of others have been saying/thinking for a long time now. As far as this year's show, just like the last number of years, I guess we'll wait and see.

HAHA ... not many know that Ray is now the top Operations guy for Jetblue in Dallas ... let's see ... fighter pilot ... Viet Nam ... Jetblue ... Air Traffic Controller ... Long Island guy ... now living in Dallas via Boston ... linked with Sun, Archie, Hurcs, Boston, among others ... Oceanside Legionnaires ... I&E's in the 60's ... pith helmet ... BHOF ... now WDCHOF ... SOLID drum corps citizen ... don't be afraid to fly Glenn ... Ray's got yer 6 ... :-)

congrats to all.......and to the 'Kid'.....tough ####.....you know you would be there in spite of your protestations.......a "well deserved" to all Guido

over/under on the number of times Crown's show will be introduced as "e equals m c two"?

The complete silence being spoken of in this thread is the kind that comes from a moment so captivating you stop everything you are doing for fear of disturbing what is going on. Holy **** moments begat thunderous applause. Beautiful moments command complete silence.

I think people are missing the OP's point - fine, disregard this upcoming year's show and his point is still valid. He is an alum that is upset at the direction BD has taken for the better part of the last decade.

And I would have replied; "However, we are not talking about the technical but the shear communication!! And judges have a much higher knowledge about the intricacies of each show than the general audience due to closely interacting with corps design staff throughout the season; and due to that very close staff/judge communication the judges can see, hear, and understand the nuances which completely escape the general audience. Want an example? The judges were 'well versed' on the Cabaret Voltaire show concept by the Devils staff feeding them with historical data and design nuance information; yet the overwhelming majority of the paying audience forked out big bucks to one show without any knowledge at all of the avant-garde Dada movement let alone the significance of the Switzerland venue, and therefore most in the audience, even at Finals, sat there going, 'huh? what? I do not get it.' while the judges understood each and every nuance."

Hmmm...I have judged, between corps and band, somewhere around 200 competitions since 1976, my first year judging drums in the Garden State Circuit. About 150 of them are MB shows from 1979 through 2 years ago, my most recent judging. I never 'root' for the underdog...I root for all kids to perform as well as they can. Now, when I am making comments the type of comments I make does vary depending on the relative level of the group. I always try and find positive things to say to balance the negative, no matter how inexperienced the band is. I also always speak to the members in my comments...I want any director to be able to play my evaluation for their kids without worrying about what the commentary will be. Sometimes as a staff member I find the comments to be too dense or overly negative or on occasion too pompous.

Wait... the Blue Devils play Jazz? Since when?

Thank you sir.

I'm having waffles for dinner.

Well, there goes flying anywhere anytime soon.

Nanc ... give Fallon a pass ... he has the attention span of a gnat ... rules???? ... he don't follow no stinkin' rules!!! :-)

I don't believe anyone has said that BD is not successful (by any measure that you would like to use) - that would just be flat out incorrect. Some (perhaps a lot of) people just disagree with the design direction that they have moved in, especially given their history and style and what made them so popular with their fans as their success grew.

On the other hand, the tonality of Rite of Spring is actually very jazz-friendly. Stravinsky's The Rite of Spring: a jazz standard? Pt 1 - Stravinsky’s post-Rite jazz Pt 2 - Jazz’s post-Stravinsky Rites

I know it's not "good form", and I'm not sure if it's a good thing, but I do feel a little better knowing that...

This is great to see. Keep it going, Dream! Lee

Nobody got this one yet.... Back in 2007 during the Louisville show, right at the start of the 2nd movement, Blue Shades, all you could hear was "Martha Grah---" And because there was silence in the score put in for the narration, after it got cut off, we were marching in silence and the crowd was more quiet than grass growing. All you heard was "dee-dah" from the mellophones..... ....... ....... more silence...... .....dee-da Dee-Da DEE-DA DEE-DA! ....... More silence.... .... ...DAT! Dee-dah DAT! ..... Ironic blooper, considering the original score had pauses in between anyway, but this one was....well, you know...

It's ok, Crown's the one doing Phillip Glass this year

For sure! Not only is is the mark of a great organization that is able to groom future leaders, but that alumni are not only capable of leading but have the passion to continue to serve their corps

Crusaders continue to develop leadership from within, the mark of a great organization. Congrats to Tom Spataro on an incredible job!

Hopefully never. I mean how thick do you have to be to not recognize the most popular equation ever created?

An easy solution would seem to be to not read this discussion!

DCI fans are generally a good lot. Most understand the hard work that marchers put into their shows. They also recognize that these marchers are involved in a positive activity that is a positive force in society. We recognize that the media oftentimes gives lots of coversage to the bad things that a few young bad apples do, but does not give appropriate and neccessary recognition to all the good kids that are doing such great things in their lives. So those of us in the stands show appreciation for these well deserved efforts of these marchers, as they deserve every bit of support with our show of appreciation for what these young marchers do. They are absolutely amazing with what they do.

SoCal Dream - Declared Class A

And my point is that in the modern show design the 'communication' to the judges by the design staff (via direct written explanations, vocal explanations,...) is vastly different, and way more intricate and in depth, than just the one-shot music/visual-only communication to the audience (via music, drill, and props). Therefore, the judges have a huge advantage of seeing, hearing, and most importantly understanding the show concept designs. Do you remember the libretto (i.e. communication) the Regiment staff was forced to hand out to the audience for the original Spartacus show back in the eighties? We are now at a point where to understand the modern show concepts the judges now have to be presented with such materials; and it would take more than just a libretto (more like an entire book) to educate the audience!!! And because the explanation (communication) material today is presented just to the judges not to the audience that is a major reason why many judges 'get' the shows but the audiences do not!! Moreover, reading a libretto at a drum corps show of all places was bad enough; imagine today if all of the show concepts were explained (i.e. communicated) to the audience the way the design staff are having to explain them to the judges (music appreciation and history classes with books and books of written explanations sitting in the stands at a drum corps show; yuck!!!!)

I personally am a fan of "How loud can you get?" One of my favorite all-time shows in Madison's 1999 "Jesus Christ Superstar," but there is a difference between an awed silence based on performance and sitting on your hands because the show stinks, but hopefully even the lousy shows get an applause for effort.

Mark Plotts(sp?) joined the corps in 1979 and was kind of rough for him the first year as he replaced our ex-horn instructor Nate Ward as DM. Nate did horns and DM from the restart in 74 until (I think) "contract not extended" end of 1978. Was away at college and missed any details but the change in horn instruction was huge as we went from a HS band director to Ray Eyler (who needs no introduction :tongue:/> ). Never quite sure what the deal was but seemed some members resented that a newbie was suddenly DM and Mark did show he was nervous at times as he grew into the role. One on one conversations he was a funny guy and enjoyed talking to him after I left the corps. No idea when he left but he was not with the corps after they reformed in May or so 1984. IIRC he was with Schickalimmy(sp!!!) High School before he joined WSM. Favorite story was after Westshore won their home show in Carlisle (had to be 82). Was leaving the stadium and see Mark coming back in full uni for (I guess) the judges meeting. We never said a word.. caught each others eye and just started to smile... then as we passed we high fived each other so hard my hand hurt the next day.... scared the Hell out of people around us. Story I read here on his passing was he was working on his motorcycle in the garage and for some reason had the engine running. Just overcome by the exhaust I believe.... shame... Thanks Nanci the guy does deserve some recognition.... Oh yeah Don, I've been told I made a few low key "pithy" comments about the letter. Can remember but probably something like "Well if they're upset now, let's upset them more by knocking someone off".

Hope you guys are enjoying yourselves. For "me", reading this thread is like passing a kidney stone. Please Lord, let the season start......

I agree. Its hard to fault the Blue Devils staff for designing shows that wins Titles. If they lost with these shows, then naturally they would perhaps rethink the direction their shows have taken of late. The audience is a total non factor in the scoring in DCI Drum Corps these days. What the audience likes or dislikes is irrelevent, no matter what Cesario wants to tell us. The BD show is designed to appeal to the narrow appeal of approx. 50 people. And BD tends to know their "audience" ( 50 judges )and what they tend to like and reward. They design it to appeal to these 50 people, then execute the hell out of it by practicing with more practice time by competing in upwards of 35% less shows than their top tier World Class Division competitors. Its a formula that works. So I see no rationale to be critical of a Corps that knows how to appeal to the audience that counts and turn a deaf ear to the audience that doesn't count. Now that these shows are winning, I can easily see a couple of other Corps now developing shows similar to BD that have the judges almost wetting themselves in approval, while most other normal people in nationwide audiences continue to be frustrated, made to feel inadequate, and become totally lost re. the show theme, music, visual, and what the hell its all about.

Great names... great choices... and a well-deserved honor for all of them. Congrats to the new inductees!!! My "long overdue" vote for any name on this list goes to Bobby Hoffman. A true genius, and one of the coolest people I've ever known.

Have videos or audio been released and I missed it? How are we already judging shows we haven't seen yet?

I actually think this will come across quite well.

and despite the hoopla since the late 90's, DCI's outreach to schools has really been eh. Having taught at a highly successful program in our area for several years, i can tell you what was received was bare bones flyers/posters. This was a school that has sent several kids to march both DCI and DCA, with successful WGI groups for indoor

winning or massive applause......it seems that's for the corps to choose which to aim for. you can marry both, but it's rarer and rarer

I understand what you're saying in your post and don't entirely disagree... but it is tough to discount the championship victories, especially for a corps that gears its program to contending for championships. I mean, something sure is working, and working quite well, for BD!!!

Right; the wrong choice of words, and also my meaning was poorly communicated. I just put an edit in that post to clarify. I'm in favor of what Surf does, but the idea that more accessible shows should outscore less accessible shows is a bad idea, in my opinion. Corps should score higher when they perform better, both on the technical side and the GE side. In GE, in comparing Surf's Bridgemania to BD's Cabaret Voltaire, the GE judges should consider how well the corps members express the ideas and passions in the respective shows, and not the accessibility of the shows or other factors regarding the source material. Let's not forget that this is what GE judges are good at; they are educators who spend their time evaluating young people's ability to express artistic ideas, and helping them do it better. That's why they are trained and trusted to judge it.

The red above connotes that you believe that "business enterprise" and non-profit are mutually exclusive. They aren't. DCI's sole purpose is to make money. The By-laws, however, specify that "profits" are calculated and paid out "above the line", i.e. before DCI expenses for promotion and growth. This is azz-backwards and delineates DCI's practices from a "normal" business model where "profit" (what's available to be paid out to corps, or "shareholders") is calculated AFTER expenses of running and growing the business. In DCI, however, some directors believe and promote that DCI's executive staff is inept and that they, the corps, are better at marketing than DCI and, therefor, nearly ALL of DCI's earnings should be paid to them to promote and grow the activity. This argument is perverted and is the ultimate unfunded mandate, because the BOD can set the amount to paid out to themselves while they simultaneously charge DCI's executive staff with mandates, and then sit back and complain that DCI is ineffectual at meeting growth and promotion goals even as they complain that DCI needs to pay out more to them. Not until these things happen will this situation be rectified: 1. Corps payouts should ONLY be calculated "below the line", i.e. AFTER promotion and growth expenses 2. BOD must agree to fund DCI sufficiently to actually meet the growth/promotion goals that the BOD charges them with 3. An INDEPENDENT oversight body must be established to judge the business practices of the executive committee (ideally, the entire BOD should be non-affiliated persons with only minimal representation by the corps themselves) DCI's "base" is dying off even as they represent the greatest portion of current support dollars. The actual "base" that DCI should be focused on is organic growth of participation, then retaining those participants to become the "base" of tomorrow. Not coincidentally, and for the same reasons you correctly say that parents support the WGI model, the parents of new DCI participants will help support the current-day "base" of support. Current financial supporters among the old-line base should be treated as kings and queens and the benefits of financial support should be increased to attract other financial supporters (disclaimer: I am one of those financial supporters). These are not "armchair" business practices. They are tried and true and completely workable inside the confines of DCI's "non-profit" structure. TV is not a medium of entertainment for DCI, even with today's hi-def or theater experience. TV should ONLY be a medium to introduce prospetive marching member participants and their parents to the activity. Spending any money to provide entertainment to the existing fan base is wasted if it doesn't draw organic growth of the participant base. The presumption that "those doing it" in drum corps have a better knowledge base than those who are not "doing it" - as if current staff have ALL the answers and the best ones to boot - is flawed. Any unbiased observer would look at DCI's current problems and rightfully ask "Why do they continue to do things that have brought the activity to its current position?". My expectation is that outside, un-affiliated, input as a replacement to the current BOD (director)-led decision process is precisely what the activity needs now. The hubris that "only the directors are best-equipped to lead the activity" is just a narcissistic part of the problem that has brought the activity to the point where we "armchair" participants (and business people) are discussing how to save it. IMO, of course.

I hope there's more people like me out there that cringes when people shout these things during final''s night just to get on the recordings. That's a topic for another day...

Video on tragedy This is the third suicide their high school has had to deal with this year. It's times like this when one wishes one could embrace someone who is experiencing such thoughts for whatever reason, and let them know things will get better and/or the best times of one's life is yet ahead. We should also never assume by just looking at someone that their lives aren't without unspeakable stresses. Life is so fragile, and far more precious than sometimes realized. I hope the Colts know all of us are embracing them at this time.

'84 Suncoast

Carolina Gold Drum & Bugle Corps is pleased to announce that it will be appearing in the DCI Atlanta Southeastern Championship on Sunday July 28th, 2013. Many thanks to ALL of you out there, across the vast history of the organization, (and those at DCI for being amazing hosts) who made this performance possible!!! Now go buy some tickets! (Also, it's only 33 days until the DCA season officially opens! HYPE!) DCI Atlanta Southeastern Championship

Crap...I went to go give you a GREEN Thumbs UP and I accidentally gave you a Negative :( haha oops. I love this song and it would be a great encore

Pretty safe bet they beat Excelsior again...

You're right. Obviously Crown's wins in the caption are complete flukes. If I was the brass caption head of any of the top 12 corps, I wouldn't be giving Crown a second thought when it comes to beating them in brass performance. That they've consistently been able to crack into the Top 5 overall since 2008 and have taken the Ott home 3 of those years is no cause for notice. Nothing to see here. Back to your regularly scheduled, BD-is-da-bomb-####-in-everything-and-have-rings-and-trophies-to-back-it-up programming.