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It looked hard when I saw it. Any band nerd who has marched stretched across the field like that knows how well SCV executed something very complex. SCV 1999-2004 was fire. Ughh. I loved those shows.

If you went to a show with me and didn't know anything about me, you wouldn't know what corps I root for. I give every corps a standing ovation, regardless how I feel about the show, because I know how hard those kids work and I appreciate them giving up their summer to entertain idiots like me. Mandarins were in direct competition with Cadets and Phantom last year. I was going bonkers and cheering for those corps just as much as I did Mandarins.

SEC is taking it hard this year so far. This year's version of the tourney is nutso

Could be worse, you could have been a Kentucky fan. Or even worse, from Kentucky.

Nah, I'm saying that my personal exp, and those of enough I've talked to, was one in which drilling members into the ground via repetition of material masqueraded as education. In that vein, is the military also "educational?" I mean, perhaps in the "better fn figure it out or else kind of way" but those of us who studied education may not necessarily call it that. Again, my HS education in colorguard was more thorough than what I got in drum corps.

So I was lucky enough to meet someone who marched BD 2008-2009. I asked him about finals night 2008 and more importantly the corps attitude and motivation going into 2009. He said in hindsight (This convo happened in 2018), getting silver in 08 was the best thing that could have happened. He said going into the 09 season, there was talk of "Finishing" and not leaving it in the hands of the judges, to dominate from start to finish, to not let complacency set in, and perform every second every minute as if it's your last. The 2009 BD squad definitely used what happened the previous season to fuel and motivate them moving forward. I bring that up because you went thru something similar in Phantom passing you guys on finals night in 03, then you all comeback in 2004 with a monster of a show, kick some butt, and earn a well-deserved medal. What was the overall attitude of the corps after finals in 03, and going into spring training, was there any talk of using what happened the previous season as motivation? Did it make you guys hungrier, more focused to ensure that history did not repeat itself? Thanks in advance sister!

Agreed. I can't say my experience was educational, at least not intentionally so, as I learned what I didn't want to be. That doesn't count. My HS experience in colorguard was more educational than in drum corps by light years. I wouldn't elevate the "education" in drum corps to graduate level work, especially not in colorguard. But I see your point, in relation to K12 education. I think it's more like vocational that rarely leads to job prospects. (This coming from someone who's happily attended both graduate and vocational schools.) This is how you can tell when DEI efforts are genuine or not. It takes an org with that kind of history added "oomph" to make these efforts thorough and lasting. You can also tell because there's no partnership with institutions who make DEI their sole purpose (research, advocacy, the lifting of lived experiences.) To rely on the hope that these orgs have innate talent and experience internally already to keep these kinds of efforts afloat is silly and can, again, easily make genuine efforts come off as window dressing. *cough* my own house *cough cough* Also, I see your point made earlier about distinguishing "inclusion" from "inclusivity." I think the term used by experts in the DEI field for the latter is "access." I appreciate the dialogue.

You weren’t in Indy in 2013 IIRC. My first finals experience. I was pretty stunned by the dislike for BD, but I guess it was manifested by silence instead of booing so that’s a win for civility? Of course, a dark, edgy, jazz-based show performed at a high level was right up my alley even if it had some clear design flaws.There were a number of shows I didn’t care for that year but I was jazzed to be there and stood and cheered after every show. To each their own. I do geek out on trying to understand and embrace the concept of each show on its own terms. I almost always get there but not always. And both you and @Chief Guns are cool 😎, but he is a phenomenon of cool 😂

here's the thing, and it may ruffle some feathers.... BITD scores still mattered. think the Warren Cavies, the Royal Airs and Kilties in the 60's didn't go all out to win? or Garfield, Blessed Sac, Boston, St Kevins? Sure they did. but the pool they recruited from was different then. As were the shows. Few in corps back then went on to be HS or college band directors. those entities and drum corps were in very different camps. But as time went on, and the two camps started getting closer together and personel crossed back and forth, the recruiting pool changed, and the number of corps shrank for all of the litany of reasons discussed/debated/argued about on here, with both fatcs, opinion, and rose colred bifocals. and surviving until next year has long been a thing in drum corps. like since day 2. So while these are all good points to bring up in relation to this topic, it's not like these two things are only more recent developments. They've been around forever.

Hanovers horn instructor also played during the piston/rotor days. When I got my 3 valve I couldn’t resist. 😈 “hey Brian, ok valve 1 is right thumb (horizontal valve), valve 2 is left thumb (rotor)… what thumb is third valve” Got this “I can’t believe you said that” look. 😦

Hey, he was supporting the arts, in his own way.

Exactly. I preferred BD 2012 over BD 2014 which puts me in a minority I think, and I didn't care for much of anything they did between 2008-2011 or 2013 like a lot of people in this thread have said. It's just personal taste. Sentiments like "Tee-hee what the heck is DADA!?!?!?!? tee-hee-hee" being conflated with a lack of excellence by a corps? GTFO.

Amen Brother! Say it louder for the people in the back!

BD 2012 exuded excellence. There isn't a theme a corps has done that isn't pretentious and silly even if it happens to be your personal favorite. It's all just marching band that takes itself way too seriously. People in crowds who try to make their opinion known to people around them are even more pretentious and silly. Real weirdos. Your opinion isn't that special no matter how many fellow weirdos get onboard with you. Every finals I went to there have been people like that. Every adult rolls their eyes and tries to ignore them.

emerging from my cave to say how excited i am for bloo this year. was relistening to garden and riffs this morning and remembering how unbelievable this group has sounded the last few seasons, and how great im sure they'll sound this year. im not a betting person nor am i good with predictions, but i just have this really good feeling this year for bloo. an intense positive energy. in another note, one of the snares from last year's line is currently on staff for the indoor percussion ensemble here in my area, super cool dude, and super smart. the training at bloo is incredible and i hope i get the chance to march with them someday.

Agreed. I would go further. I am surprised no one (especially Bluecoats themselves) have not raised this observation. Compare the data they have gathered on their auditionees (1126 in-person, plus 217 virtual) with the 165 selected for membership. There are no demographic differences in who makes the cut. None. Not even socioeconomic status. This raises another thought. From reading this thread, it appears that we are all in consensus regarding inclusivity. We want to know that everyone is welcome to participate, and if we could, we would make sure everyone had the opportunity. But "inclusivity" (opportunities) is different from "inclusion" (outcomes). And the outcomes, as you point out, could reflect who are interested (or disinterested) in participating in the first place. Use of the term "inclusion" instead of "inclusivity", along with the use of terms like "underrepresented" and "underserved", create the implication that demographics of your organization should match those of the general population. Inherent in that is a grand uninvestigated presumption that people of all races, ethnicities, genders, identities, sexual orientations, socioeconomic statuses, and so on, have equal innate interest in doing what DCI drum corps do now. I would not make that assumption. Those last four words, though, might not pan out. It seems that modern drum corps non-profits interested in serving less affluent youth are doing that by developing separate program offerings that are not drum corps (and therefore, are not as inaccessibly expensive).

It’s one of those stories you SWEAR had to be an “in the lot” legend like Bob Hope died or Madonna marched in a corps. But it isn’t. It’s the corps lore story BD 360 should do an investigative mini documentary on but probably won’t.

Found a reddit post about it. Nuts 😭

everyone raves about 04, and they should. but without 03 there is no 04, and 03 was awesome also

It's an appropriately aggressive response to the situation. I'd be more worried about them if they failed to appropriately defend themselves from a claim in which they played no role.

18 May to 16 June at Gardner Webb University in Boiling Springs NC. Rehearsals are open.

No doom and gloom here. Looking forward to another amazing year by Crown.

I remember when I used to figure out how old I’d be in the year 2000 when I was a teenager. I’m not even going to think about 2044.

I'd still take BD over that field.

Guess I will be rooting for George Jetson and Orbit City Drum Corps to win it all in 2044.

Really? Bluecoats did a Beatles show without any Beatles music. I know I'll get shot for this, but it's true. It was, actually, my favorite show of 2019 and I felt it should have won based on it's merits and the extremely high performance levels, but it wasn't musical at all. The musical elements of the show were just a technical exercise with the Beatles music as an underlying component, overshadowed by the vast and endless runs. That's not music. WHAT THE BEATLES HAD WRITTEN IS MUSIC, and Lennon is a much better composer and orchestrator than the Bluecoats music staff. I don't mean to rag on the Bluecoats, because they are not alone. EVERYTHING is written for the judges and nothing is written for the fans. There is no musicality today, or there is rather very little. If the Bluecoats just played the Beatles music without all the runs tossed in all over the place, they wouldn't have scored as well because it wouldn't have been deemed as having as much content. But, it would have been a hell of a lot better. I quite enjoy modern DCI but musically it doesn't hold a candle the golden era. Listen to Regiment's 1996 opener and how it just built and bulit and built over 4 minutes to it's thundering conclusion. THAT is music. THAT is musicality. How the hell can a corps achieve that today when they are playing 15 different pieces in 10 minutes and the hornline is only playing for 4 of them?

In 2015, The Cadets became the only corps to win brass and percussion at the DCI Championship prelims, and not only not win the show, but not finish in the top 3. There have been years where the overall music winner did not win the title, but nowadays, you can win music and finish 4th. Conversely, you can be 4th in music (and I won't be surprised if someday soon, 5th) but win the title. Spreads given in GE/Visual/Guard will always prevail over scant edges given in music. We have color guard judges judging overall "effect" who wouldn't know the difference between two musical products if it bit them. Crown has had years where they won brass.....by a tenth........over groups that frankly could not shine their shoes in that caption. Not to say others weren't decent in brass, but the clear superiority in every aspect of brass performance was not acknowledged score-wise. I remember a day when people would wait with excitement at a regional (Allentown, for example) for the scores to be announced. Nowadays, most are in their cars on their way before they are even announced, not just because of the quick availability of the internet, but because competitive excitement is gone. All said, though....the only way there will be change is if it is proposed and approved by the drum corps themselves, and there has not been a stronger influence there than the visual community, an example being last year when some proposals that would have created more refined emphasis on music were soundly defeated.

As a rookie in the guard, I was hanging onto that show design for dear life. From what I recall everyone else seemed to be as well. We all had to disregard everything we were hearing and hope the drum major and pit could somehow mitigate everything. Guard was not allowed to dut or count IIRC. Only a select few member leadership in battery and horns. Then there was bass 5 going rogue in the design, so beautiful. Love that guy. That first unison hit was always a huge relief cause we knew we had a better shot of syncing up. Then we landed at our first enclosed dome, Mile High I believe, and we all fried a few brain cells trying to reconfigure everything on the fly. That happened at every dome, cause the acoustics were always slightly different. If you look closely at the dna of anyone who marched that show, I'm pretty sure the music, drill and choreo is etched there permanently. Repping was the only way to sort of slay that beast.

Just an update on the recent march camp they had. After becoming a recent alum, contracted in 20, 22, and 23, I decided to drive to the camp site to see some old friends and see what the corps was doing. I was only able to make it to the end of camp but, luckily, I was able to listen to all of the music they had up to this moment. They only had 2 parts for the camp which went up to the ballad surprisingly which makes me suspect that the son lux residency will be the star of the back half of the production obviously. Part one is in your face and guns blazing with great energy due to temp AND technique! This book is already miles harder than 23 and I'm a little jealous I aged out in 23. The second part of part 1 gives me the feeling of Kinetic noise with its intense rhythmic challenges. Part 2, the ballad is just gorgeous. It reminded me as a brass player why I wanted to march this Line in the first place. Doug Throwers chord progressions and focus to writing as close to the source music as possible is just amazing. The lines tonal accuracy is phenomenal and dynamic shaping is just as strong. I am truly pleased to be on the other side of the field and once again be a fan of this organization and wish them all the best for this season!

I don’t care where anyone places anymore. I just go and enjoy myself. I thought they were terrific last year. I loved Liebestod.

Why when they're still posting? Lolol.

Poppycock returns. How's Stephen and the cats?

I’m sure most posters will place Crown fourth (or lower) in the predictions thread. But I’ll be honest and say last season was significantly more enjoyable for me because I tuned all that stuff out for the most part. I can only speak for myself but obsessing over scores, placements and spreads kinda kills the fun.

She is a dancer. I showed her videos of 2024 Boston & 2008 Phantom. She was fascinated by the idea of dancing with a flag. The indoctrination begins.

If Bluecoats played Let it go, I’d have to fake my own death.

I liked it.

I think that we can glean that there will be an element of dark in this show, because that is what John Mackey excels at. Dark, intricate melodies. Percussion and low brass are going to have worlds of fun with whatever he writes for them, I can tell you that.