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Hey, I never thought of this to add credibility! Great idea! OK if I use it, too? This from a poster who is currently, and has been for over a decade, directly involved with hosting a DCI WC show... Potential show host: "We'd like to run a WC show." DCI: "How much do you have to spend to get corps to your stadium?" PSH: "We think we can cover a contract of $xxx." DCI: "Here's the list of 6 corps for your show and the total cost is below your contract limit." PSH: "But there's not a single top-12 corps in our show! Our highest placement was 12th! We can't sell tickets to that show." DCI: (literally) "That's your lineup if you want it. Take it or leave it." PSH: "Can I trade these two for just one top-12 corps?" DCI: "Contracts are not negotiable, but you can change your date to earlier in the season to lower the cost." PSH: "But the football team is in the stadium..." DCI: "Umm......." What corps are paid per performance is a function of their placement in the prior year and at what point in the tour your show is taking place. There are, essentially, four tiers of prior year placement in the pricing, and early-season shows are less expensive than late-season shows. As an example, we generally have 3 or 4 top-12 and 2 or 3 from 13 on down. This year we are especially pleased to have Pacific Crest and Seattle Cascades in our show, along with Bluecoats, Crossmen, and several others. Our show is July 31st, so we pay a premium to have a show. It's been fairly common that a similar show has cost us $28,000 plus or minus, in the past. Again, show hosts are not permitted to negotiate with corps on either schedule or cost. And there's no "guarantee". As DCI has said to us many times, "You're paying for a lineup" and, if the host doesn't pay the contract prior to the show, the show is cancelled and the corps don't perform but the host still owes the contract price. The only way a show can be cancelled is if the DCI administrator at the show declares the weather so bad that not even a stand-up on the track by one corps cannot be performed. If that standup is done in a drizzle to a nearly empty stadium, the full contract price is due. EDIT: As one might imagine, this incongruity of show host has been a point of contention in the past, specifically as part of the G7 plan which did away entirely with the local TEP hosting scheme. Of the about 106 or 107 shows, 55 to 60 are run by either DCI or the corps. The other 50 or so shows are run by shows whose profit does not, necessarily, help drum corps. Those profits help the, typically, schools that take the risk and pay the contract, then get their music programs involved to sell the event all over their community. The music program gets the profits from the show. Besides the contract payments, if the show does better and makes more money, the corps don't get any of that extra, the music programs do. Forty-five drum corps shows all across the country, and about that same number of drum corps mostly congested into general areas. Another very real issue is the incongruity of the message when DCI has 100 different "music games" going on each summer. But those are usually the actual, local touch that DCI has with the communities, 45 or so of them, that host drum corps shows as TEPs. Five, eight, ten bands all pre-sold by the local host band...that hundreds, maybe thousands, of direct contacts that drum corps has with schools that they get nowhere else. IMO, the notion that the existing corps would be able to replace TEP hosts is not feasible. And, while its true that George can sell them tickets to our show from Allentown, he loses the greatest proponent he has - the local band host looking to make a profit for his music program. I, frankly, have no idea where that spiel came from but, now that I've said it, I'll return to work.

I understand Brasso's point, but it's not exactly accurate. While DCI "is the corps", as he says, it is not true that the corps themselves run the competitions, except to the extent that some corps run their own shows. The corps' representatives vote to approve or disapprove (or do so by proxy of those they elect to represent them) just about every issue related to the activity each year so, in that vein, they do "run" things. To answer your specific questions, DCI, individual corps, and Tour Event Partners all produce a show. As part of that responsibility, each host is responsible for providing housing and rehearsal space, showers, and quiet, segregated classrooms for drivers to sleep. Corps directors meet early in the season, before auditions, to discuss, pound out, and sign up for shows on the tour. Each ED chooses his own tour schedule and tour route, then agree to participate at shows along their route. DCI creates the tour by coordinating its own shows with those of the corps and those that are TEP run. Each show host is charged a fee for each corps in its lineup, making up a contracted amount that must be paid prior to the show date. Each corps pays for its own expenses, although DCI does have a line-of-credit that it uses to "front" money to the corps prior to the season start, and is repaid as the season draws fans to the gates. Also, the major part of each corps' tour is decided long before their corps are filled out (WC/OC). While some changes happen during the tour, it's a rarity.

Other possible ideas to add interest in Indy: 1. <<insert corps>> meet-and-greet "Meetup" at a local restaurant...go meet fellow Cadets, Blue Coats, Vanguard etc. fans 2. Food trucks...there should be a unique Food Truck Row outside the stadium...the food at Lucas Oil is bad 3. T-shirt tosses (like they do at basketball games) into the crowd? 4. Contests and prizes (maybe shown over the stadium's video monitor in between performances)...like they do at sporting events...Drum Corps questions like, "Tell me when Star of Indiana won the championship?" or whatever...and the fan guesses the answer...win a free whatever. 5. Mini-mini- standing brass line to give unannounced performances inside the stadium...near booths...like they do at Disneyland when all of a sudden a brass line comes out and tears it up 6. Backstage tours? 7. Tours of the Indy Zoo! ; )

Exactly correct. Design is meaningless without execution. Despite all the whining about adult-designed programs (which AFAIK has always been the case) sloppy execution is perfectly capable of killing brilliant design. What's grinding some gears here is that there's a certain tolerance level for execution that can be "overcome" by the confluence of design and performance. It's an interesting question (with no defined answer). What's the minimum level of execution at which design becomes effective? How much "error" is tolerable before it begins to affect the number you're about to write down? Of course for some the answer is any error should impact design. This is exactly what you had in the "tic" system (which simply shifted the semantics to "what is a tic"). And this tolerance (which has always existed and always been subjective) will vary from judge to judge, show to show, and design to design. You hope and pray that you get consistency. Of course that's the goal of the judges as well -- to agree on the values used to define a performance. Some moments only work when they're perfectly clean. For other moments clean is so irrelevant (or impossible to define) that in practice they always work. Most moments are somewhere in between those two extremes. To say "it's all about design" is just plain ignorant. Design is a precondition. You must have design to place a value on the execution. But in the end performers must realize the design, bring it to life, and make it their own.

I probably shouldn't have opened with the "was brainstorming a new business model" part. I just really have no clue what the role the corps and DCI play is, and had no clue how my ideas differed from what was actually out there.

Hmmm..... Picking one....2014 Blue Devils. That might be the best performed, designed, and written show I have ever seen. I saw them at Rutgers later in the season. I know a 2.3 spread from 1st to 2nd is huge at that level, but even at that it seemed artificially small.

2003 Phantom at finals in Orlando. So much crowd energy during that ending. 2014 Bluecoats. Saw it in San Antonio, but for better or worse, Drum Corps design changed that day.

Stanford University Marching Band ? Is this the progressive, avard garde university MB that is anything but traditional, conservative in its style... but which non MB regular folks seem to like and get a kick out of their irreverence? This Fancy Pants Liberal University's MB has a history of drugs, alcohol, and sexual harrassment issues however. Here's hoping that Gavin can clean up this University's deplorable MB culture there.

Glad I saw Bluecoats last year in Nashville. It's a show you almost had to see live to appreciate.

Their brass line was good, it wasn't great, definitely not better than anyone above them, or even The Cadets, but I expect their success from last season to carry on to this one. But man....it's going to be competitive....Bluecoats won, you'd have to expect them to at least medal again, Blue Devils are in the running EVERY YEAR for a Gold - to think they are going to NOT medal is unthinkable - Crown is also very good and could/should medal again, and they are hungry for another gold - SCV has been beating on the door for the last 5 years - one would think they are going to medal again at some point - could it be this year??? Cavaliers, of course we just mentioned them, looks like they're ready to compete - and then there's the Cadets - still a #### good corps - could medal at any point - and if you want to throw in Blue Knights who stay competitive, I don't really think they could medal, but crazy things have happened - so realistically we got 6 corps who should win a medal. Lol. Whoever DOESN'T medal, it's going to be a disappointment. What I really hope happens is that judges score them closer together. We see Blue Knights who scored just over 90 points last season for 7th - realistically I think that show deserved at least 92, perhaps 93. And then score the corps above them from that point. Cadets didn't deserve a 92.x, that was a 95 point show. I want to see 6 corps score above 95 - that's what they should end up deserving, quit scoring them on a curve. I hate that crap.

I'm gonna stick to ones I saw live. I got to watch Carolina Crown rehearse the day before their first show in Arizona (or was it New Mexico...) in 2013. Hadn't heard or seen any of the show. I knew they were gonna win as soon as they did their full run through, that was pretty dang special.

Spirit of Atlanta 1980 at Finals which also included: 27th Lancers 1980 Bridgemen 1980 Blue Devils 1980

'91 Star! There have been a ton of good ones since but still haven't watched a show quite as special as that one.

Uniforms?

I may have to change mr original answer. I forgot 27th's "Once More in 94" on a murky August night at DCI Finals in Foxboro. WHAT A NIGHT!

I know Cadets 07 gets hyped a ton (and rightfully so) but I've always really liked Winged Victory.

2007 Blue Devils at finals. i had only seen it on stream before then, and it was like a completely different show live.

'75 Madison Scouts '75 Muchachos

1987 Garfield Cadets at Finals.. that show was truly special.

I was brainstorming a revised business model for DCI over the weekend, and realized that I actually don't know what the current relationship is between DCI and the individual corps. Can anyone shed some light on this? Does DCI just host shows, and tell each corps "alright, you're booked, see you in Iowa tomorrow night!" or do they help arrange anything else? Is gas on the individual corps? Is housing? I'm actually not completely sure what role each organization plays in making the summer tour come together. Would love to start a discussion on what everyone knows and/or what people think the relationship actually should be.

Actually, I don't believe a lot have marched drum corps if any (I'm speaking for Canyon and north, the panhandlepanhandlepanhandle). I'm not sure if any of the heads have, I know there are some 90s Phantom Regiment, Madison Scouts, etc. former MMs but no one that has marched very recently. I know at my school I REALLY pushed the theater stuff as a student for some after two a days activities, and it just kinda spread like wildfire through the students to other schools and now directors are bringing them in by the busloads. The interest has been pretty student initiated, but the HS band directors really embrace and support it too.

I'm from Canyon, currently finishing up my Music Education degree and about to start working on my Masters in percussion performance. Not many people from around here on DCP......haha. Did you go to Abilene Christian by chance? Great program, performed at TMEA in February I believe. There was absolutely nothing in the way of drum corps until recently up here. I do find Guardians decision......interesting to look at starting one up in Lubbock. Horizon has been vying for Open Class designation in Odessa for a year or two (know a few people there, great little thing getting started) and I think there is another trying to set up shop in Midland......getting a tad crowded up here for what is a far less dense and wide spread scene in the huge world of Texas bands. When I was in HS starting about 10 years ago (oh my God...)......not a ton of investment in bands and not a lot of great programs to be honest. But over the last few years there have been a ton of new directors especially in the Amarillo ISD programs that have breathed huge new life into a lot these programs and it seems like schools are supporting them a lot more. The support and fan base for DCI has also exploded as a result. When I was in HS the Big Loud and Live events were lucky to have 15 - 20 people, now they're at two theaters in Amarillo and selling out at both. I know the number of auditionees from up here has increased quite a bit too, I don't recall any when I was in HS and now I know there are kids all over trying out. Lubbock has a lot of good programs to draw from too, and Midland/Odessa has a good few big schools as well to recruit from. I'm guessing they're recruiting form El Paso as well.

More great info about stuff I wondered about. Appreciate you taking the time to share your expertise. Thanks.

Wow, this is getting more heated than a Madison Scouts thread in the middle of July!

Hey, right in my neck of the woods! (I live 15 minutes south of Amarillo). Lubbock Cooper is an exploding program, their improvement from 2015 to 2016 was pretty incredible. I don't know any of their staff personally, but have only heard the best and it shows in their schools program.

a trip to see animals in a zoo and spectators viewing last minute tweeks, changes, and "surprises" by panicking faculty and techs might not be too different. Do not feed either.

That's fine. This thread since last night's "news" has become the Order of Cadets of the Strict Observance. Like their brothers who use that same abbreviation, o.c.s.o., The Trappists, a vow of silence has been taken until show-n-tell at camp this weekend. Mum's the word.

Hmm . . . "estate" implies the composer is dead. Elton John, Tim Rice, and Hans Zimmer are all still with us, so it seems The Lion King is unlikely. Isn't there some prominent dead American composer like Leonard Bernstein whose estate announced several years ago that they were severely reducing licensing opportunities?

Really curious why you show such conviction that this wouldn't work... Not that I disagree that it would fail, but that it's workable or not. It would fail, IMO.

I've heard some small clips, they sound better than when I marched. So there's that.

Hey, stick to your own thread or you'll have to pay the current licensing fees. haha.

OK. "...Its true, show sponsors have some say in the negotiations..."

I've judged with Bobby a few times. Really smart dude and a good guy. I'm confident he'll do a great job for the Cadets.

Wow... a whole bunch of shows, from the 1970s through the present. One that comes to mind... 1995 Madison Scouts. Absolutely overwhelming power and energy.

Word on the street is that they've stepped up the brass so far this year, so the outlook is good that they'll be improved over last year.

When it really comes down to it though...I just wanna see some great shows. At the end of seeing a competition live, I don't even stick around for scores, I'm there for the entertainment! Except for Finals, can't help it, have to see how it shakes out. And then get my arguments together to complain about why the judges are wrong about this or that. LOL. But that's what DCP is for, right? Congrats on your kid making Cavs - hope you both have a great experience. If I had a son who made a Finals worthy drum corps, I'd cry myself to sleep in pride.

My kid is kinda used to that scenario. He marched Atlanta CV in DCA for the last two years. They finished 5th in DCA Finals in 2015 and 6th in 2016 when the top 3 were clearly defined and 4-8 were fighting for placement. I agree with all of your assessments above. Great organizations with great musicians. I do think from my up-close experience with auditions this year that you will find that Cavies have upgraded their brass line at audition, and I know from in-home experience that they are working like crazy on individual improvement week over week. I kinda see Drum Corps like golf. Go put up the best score you have in the bag. And if someone is better...kudos to them. :-)

1993 Star of Indiana - They changed the game in design. Demonstrated that you can bring abstract and minimalism to the field successfully. Other corps soon follow and temporarily, in my opinion, made drum corps less entertaining in the mid to late 90's. Definitely a pandora box opener. In the end, it was for the better. Some may argue it wasn't. 2016 Bluecoats - I know it's premature, but time will tell what effect this show will have on the activity. Especially because it brought them a title. Will traditional uniforms go away or become optional? Will designers change the front ensemble set up? Also, I would argue, in terms of electronics, they have push the envelope and been creative with its use the last 3 seasons.

On the topic of non-2017 program news, the Cavaliers' WGI Winds group, Chromium Winds, won their division's title and Fan Favorite in their inaugural appearance at WGI Championships. Congratulations on your 8th title, Cavaliers!

88 Blue Devils

You certainly picked a good year to begin seeing shows live!

2006 Cavaliers. A complete show

1972 Anaheim Kingsmen at finals.

SCV 2004 at finals. It's what got me hooked on DCI.

A good way to rejuvenate Indy is to sign on FloMarching to produce DCI live streams, which due to their quality will force people to attend shows in person again.

Corps show competitions with half size judging panels arn't so bad. Corps have not finished their shows anyway.

This is an interesting idea to discuss, because it forces us to pull out of the comfortable and ask why things are, in fact, the way they are. My personal ones are: Slide Whistle = comical. That went out of fashion in the 40's. Drumline Feature bunny hops and bug stomps - it's fake aggression, and if everyone does it, it loses its effectiveness Guard soloist reaching for the sky at the big ballad chord cutoff. Again, it's so overused, and in every possible context, that it has no meaning anymore. Mike

It wasn't so very long that Spartans were the dominant O.C. corps, beating BDB and SCVC many times in the mid 2000s.

Chris Pronger has nothing on you, ha, ha.

Your last statement to me shows why they do not go too far, actually. LOVED their show this summer, electronics and all.