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Like..everyone...else.

Well, I hope Academy tears it up this year! And if they have an entertaining, well-produced and well-performed product, people will enjoy it and it will be memorable no matter what "place" they achieve. How I felt about The Academy's 2010 show: beautiful and memorable! Like all other drum corps, The Academy is looking to improve their competitive standing through achievement and design. The work that The Academy is doing now is the same work that Glassmen, Blue Knights, Troopers, Colts, Spirit of Atlanta (LOVE saying ATLANTA with that name again!), Crossmen, etc. are doing. So the wild card is not only what The Academy is doing, but what all the other corps within their particular grouping are doing. As a fan of my particular corps first and foremost, I'll be the first to say that there were high, high hopes on the part of folks like me for the Troopers of 2010. When upward movement was clearly not going to happen, there were some drum corps fans who basically said "yeah, 2009 was just a fluke (or even a gift - bah) and Troopers will just be another bottom tier semi's hopeful from now on." That is the kind of myopic thinking that all this slotting and design-oriented judging has created in the fan-base. Ideally, every year should be a year that any corps can really turn heads - and sometimes they do. I really hope there will be judging changes that encourages much more competitive movement so we can stop the boredom of predictability that seems to set in by mid-July. so.... Tear it up Academy! There will be lots of corps right with you hoping to build their fan base and generate lots of excitement, too.

I think 12th place is up for grabs this year. If they can build on last year then they must be in with a chance of making finals for the 1st time ever.

Oh, Plan... Can BD still be avant guard without you making them sound so elitist? :)

I just thought that I'd bring it to your attention that Drum Corps staff members often include many brass instructors and designers: often as many, if not more, than the percussion staff (especially when you add in that a lot of visual staffers are former brass marching members). So do you think that the majority of staff members of every single WC corps sit back and let the drummers go crazy with sound and high jack the musical/artistic intent of the musical program of the show?!? Also, I would guess that most of the Music judges in DCI are also brass players: the GE Music as well as Music Ensemble judges. Are you saying that in addition to the majority of DCI staffers, the majority of DCI Music judges ALSO "let" the drum staffers go crazy blasting the pits, destroying all artistic intent for the sake of sheer volume?!?! If so, then you CLEARLY know little/nothing about the activity. Judges don't sit back and let percussion guys "destroy the artistic intent of the music" for the sake of turing the amps up "louder and louder" without killing them in music (insert naive people who don't have any connection to modern drum corps other than buying tickets and posting on DCP chiming in with conspiracy theories about how pit balance isn't on the sheets, judges to judge to the sheets properly, etc.). But really, let's be honest here: You don't like hearing the pit all the time. You'd rather hear the brass all of the time (which you already do), the drum line all of the time (which you already do), and the pit only when they are being featured. That's fine: opinions are what they are and you're certainly entitled to them. But don't misconstrue your opinion with some activity-wide conspiracy to destroy artistic intent, just because you don't want to hear the pit all of the time.

I'm so glad you participate in these forums! Thank you!

I mean wow..this conversation is over? Really? Actually, my contention is that I want to hear the brass when it's supposed to be heard with an appropriate pit section that ISN'T COVERING UP OR DESTROYING THE ARTISTIC INTENT OF THE MUSIC BECAUSE IT'S LOUD AND LOUDER. If that cannot be achieved then YES I would like the amps taken off the pit because apparently BEFORE amplification the rest of the corps compensated for the pit by either playing softer, facing the back (or elsewhere) or not playing at all or simply field placement. To YOUR point: if your point is to constantly hear the pit playing unmusically to the REST of the corp all the time..then this conversation is over.

Splitting hairs... Should there be a deadline for corps to announce their shows? Regardless, the OP is a no win situation. Those corps that aren't releasing information about their shows are doing a poor job marketing, and those that are releasing information about their shows are choosing shows OP doesn't want to see. Yes, of the shows that have been released, many of them are "darker" in nature. But are we to expect each corps director to contact every other director to check and see what they're doing or not doing so as to make sure there is a wide variety of concepts on the field? Just imagine what that would turn into.... "Cavies, you haven't announced yet and the only concept category DCI has left is 'fluffy bunny unicorns'. ... Good luck with that." I'm sorry. But judging shows based on titles and concepts and YouTube gym clips is nothing more than an excuse to be hating on modern drum corps.

Totally totally agree. Totally :-) IMO those using the term are not engaging in a discussion at all. They're trying to dismiss people's opinions by slapping a label on them. The practice should end both here on DCP and elsewhere.

Now Now, it's just peoples opinions on uniforms in general....although I would encourage Cadets to do what they want and not worry about a few , theres no reason to attack anothers sentiment or cermony of their tradition especially since they have been around long before us and will be around long after.

Now I'm confused. Aren't you the same person who was defending The Cadets' uniform changes this year? So you're ok with them making changes but when Crown does it, they just look crazy? I can't, for the life of me, figure out why on God's green earth so many people even CARE what ANY corps wears EVER! IT'S ABOUT THE MUSIC, PEOPLE! Everything else doesn't even matter!

1) They're 2) All 3) Wonderful

Remember that jacket style was used for 3 years.....07- Triple Crown, 08- Finis & 09- Greener and the inserts were changed until the change in 10. I can not wait until things are officially released...this board will LIGHT UP!

If DCI wants more butts in the seats...they have to figure out how to get a real buzz going during the off season. A buzz so strong that has fans counting down the minutes for the season to start. You know....meaningful corps camp updates...with tidbits of show music thrown in (even if its midi files). I remember back in late 2003 and 2004 when SCV was posting monthly updates of their 2004 production. I couldn't wait to see/hear their full show. And you know what...SCV 2004 was a DCI finals crowd favorite that season. Think of movie previews. They are designed to inspire you to attend movies. DCI needs to engage/inspire the fans more during the off season.

The costs arent exactly cheap, especially when many have to drive decent distances to make it to shows, and then fork out for tickets. Do you go see a movie without knowing anything about what its about? Youre not going to know the whole plot, but its expected in most forms of entertainment that there will be *some* information on what people are going to see. Not just 'its a movie, just come see it' Its one thing when licensing is an issue. Its another to keep things under wraps because they want to 'surprise' people... never mind that those who actually care about such things will probably see the show online on the fan network long before theyd be able to see it live, thus the 'surprise' is blown anyways.

Just because their alumni don't throw a hissy fit when they change it ever year, and just because they're not having a special little party/get-together/kiss ### ceremony about their uniforms during the season - doesn't mean it's not a uniform.

Wait till Devils announce their 2011 repertoire. If that doesn't make you raise the other eyebrow then nothing will.

Let me cheer you up. 12 world class corps have not made any official announcement of their repertoire or show title. And of the corps that shared some information it is barely enough to gauge if a show will be "good" or "bad" or "indifferent". Also, ALL 23 World corps have not even completed their 2011 drum corps shows let alone solidified their designs. And absolutely no one knows what these 2011 productions will look like or sound...

So time is flying by and summer is almost upon us, so I thought as BKs biggest homer it's time to start their fan thread. Thruthfully I'm excited to see what they do every year but I'm really intrigued this year. Bocook and Hardimon writing the music and drum book, Sully and staff have marching style solidified after the change to straight leg, and Andy and Tim had great retention in. The hornline and guard! The retention is something I'm really excited about, because they're building something really special in Denver. BK is gonna have 80 horns and has been ripping it up in camps I'm told, if their show and tells are indicators then this is going to be an awesome season!! If u haven't done so I suggest u go listen to their march camp show and tell on YouTube. So even though its still pre season, I'm already amped up for BK and wanted to give them a shout out- GO BK, Keep Up The Good Work!!! We'll seeu in the summer! Wesley Perkins BK '97,'98

From lurking the past few days and seeing the main theme of the threads, I'm sure you guys are gonna love this. I was in marching band for 4 years at a HS in Alabama and now I'm going to college for finance. I marched Bass Guitar in the pit and I'm big into blues and jazz bass. I gig with a bluesy folksy band (think Sufjan Stevens + Dave Matthews Band + RHCP) and did bass and a little banjo and harmonica. Anywho, I've been doing some jazz combo stuff with some music majors and one of them introduced me to DCI. I'm pretty awestruck. I mean, Alabama had marching bands like Hoover that did BoA stuff but I didn't ever see anything more intense than that. So I'm hooked. Bought my Fan Network subscription this morning and haven't really left my computer monitor all day. I know they don't place very well but I'm really digging the way Teal Sound is so out of left field with their stuff. Spirit sounds like a lot of fun, enjoyed hearing an arrangement of Dust in the Wind on the field that isn't some AA Alabama marching band. And the Cadets are stealing my heart, This I Believe was goosebump city. I really wanna march Bass for a corps next summer, so I can get the cash together to make a legit attempt at it. My question is, what corps are using basses in the pit? I noticed they're pretty new because I didn't see them in the 07 or 08 videos and I still don't see them in some of the Top 12's pits. So what corps are set on basses? Also, is there any place I can happen to find some audition material/warmups/music that these guys are playing? I'm pretty confident in my ability but I wanna see what I'm getting myself into. If I'm gonna sit there playing nothing but little dinky walking lines or the occasional syncopated bass line, then I'm not sure if it'll totally be worth my time. But if I'm getting into some serious literature, I am all in to that. And does anyone know how many show up for auditions on bass? I've not seen more than 1 bass in the pit, so I'm sure it's pretty competitive right? And one last question, do they give you your bass for the summer or am I expected to bring mine? I love my Fender Jazz, but a summer of corps sounds like it'd beat it up pretty bad. Looking forward to this summer and seeing my first live show!

10 year anniversary, new uniforms and great show music! How well do you see them doing this year?

Speaking of which... From Jodeen Popp's tome: "In 1967 at California State, the Velvet Knights experienced one of those unthinkable events. Their American Flag pole was equipped with a spring which operated from a push button, and was meant to extend the Flag to further honor during Color Pres. The predictable happened, of course, and the spring malfunctioned. The Flag shot many feet into the air. A very quick thinking rifle carrier named Joy Lucke marched to the correct spot and caught the Flag before it hit the ground, as if it were part of the drill. At the corps banquet that fall she was presented with an official commendation from the United States Congress. This was the first known such case of commendation." Gotta love Drum Corps History!

The real heroes of the activity today are board of directors of the corps today that work tirelessly to keep their corps solvent. I serve on the board of a top twelve corps and spend on average $450 to attend board meetings. I voted to approve just the type of budget that everyone here is protesting against. Majority of costs occur before the season starts and the majority of revenue comes in after the corps is on tour. Based on previous years performance I have supreme confidence in the Executive Director, Corps Director and the entire tour staff in executing the plan to meet the budgeted goals and we have a distasteful backup plan in place to cover a deficit. Executive Director's today have to deal the hand they are dealt. They sit around a table at DCI headquarters holding their cards close to their chest waiting for someone to ante up first. Then they pounce on the one with the lowest card. Everyone is in agreement that the current business model sucks but it is what it is. I would go as far as saying that one corps failure every five years is acceptable in this type of environment. If we want to see the corps on the field entertaining us we have to work within the present system.

I expect BD will be *way* more musically 'accessible' than they have been recently. There's no way they'll risk a program that gets boo's (however unjustified) from a DCI audience. DCP will be happy about the change. And the blue-borg will be exclaiming the amazing risk BD took by returning to 'accessible' music and pushing the envelope by presenting fully developed melodic material :-) Would not surprise me to see a uniform change as well. All of this is IMO of course.

What is funny is that those from "30 years ago" who want the activity to stay as it was when they started seem to forget how different it was from 30 years prior to that (1980-2010 vs 1950-1980).

I hate that you lie. :)

EXACTLY!!! I mean those of us who ARE still fans of The Cadets, aren't fans because of the "tradition" or the uniform, we're fans because of the INNOVATION! Personally, I love George Hopkins and wish like hell he was my high school band director! I'd kill to be able to study under that guy!

Ok, but isn't that part of what makes Mr. Hopkins so cool? The fact that he still does innovative, and yes, often controversial stuff just about every year, even when soooo many fans BEG him to be more conservative? I'm not saying everything the man has ever tried was perfect, or even a success, but I love The Cadets because of their ability to keep pushing the envelope, not like some "other" corps (I won't use names, that's not the point I'm trying to make) claim to do, when all they really do is the same safe-side, seen-a-million-times shows, just with a different title. I mean sure, they don't get the fans all ###### off, but are they really as exciting?

So would "This I Believe" have made any sense whatsoever if there were no vocals? What about the "I am Spartacus!" chants in 2008 from PR? How about The Cavaliers' number count in Frameworks? Or when SCV used to say "Vanguard!" somewhere in all their shows? So you're against any kind of vocals? Not just amplified? Because corps have been saying things in their shows for a very very long time!

I'm confident with the staff additions and real training camp improvements, will be seeing a more mature, much improved corp. My prediction...Top 11.

+1 to that. Drum corps uniforms (except maybe the Cadets) stopped looking like anything remotely military long before 2010.

With the assured improvements in the battery that will happen this season I think they are a contender for 12th.

Ok fine we will drop the haters tag... Is it possible to NOT hear just how AWFUL, BORING and NON-MUSICAL the BD show is from your perspective then? I have heard it from the same camp ENDLESSLY to the point that I think it might be hate... Just sayin... we all have something to KNOCK OFF do we not? Hmmmmmm can't imagine why this is such a galvanizing subject... I mean wouldn't I be at least as good a judge if not a better one to determine if BD or Bluecoats are more like BD used to be? Are Cadets complete with song and spoken vocals the Cadets we remember of old? How about Cavaliers who used to have an UNBELIEVABLY loud hornline! Madison who were not 7 years behind everyone else in design just a few years back... Shall I continue? have you heard these things from me ad nausium? I think not... In fact you have NEVER heard these things from me, how about we all start being civil, and maybe the HATER thing will fix itself...

While we're at it, I'm not a fan of 2015 either. Pretty unimpressive season all around I agree. I think existing drum corps fans probably have an idea of what to expect from a show; i.e. I don't think too many people make their ticket-purchasing decisions based purely on the repertoire that year. I imagine more practical concerns like scheduling, $$$, etc are what come into play. However, as a strategy to draw in new fans, it would work a lot better if you could tell people "hey, come to this show and you'll get to hear corps play x, y, and z", rather than "hey, come to this show and you'll get to hear corps play.... something!".

well the performer was in control before they plugged in, but the pro amppers say you still couldn't hear them. how hard you hit them now means a lot less than who controls the volume button

Ladies and Gentlemen, Exhibit A in the "worst change in drum corps" thread: the internet. Here's someone who has seen zero performances from a drum corps season that is 2.5/3 months away from even beginning. There have been very few public recordings from corps camps released, and roughly HALF of the WC corps have made zero announcement regarding their show theme and/or rep. There have certainly been zero videos showing visual design. Yet here we have someone astute enough to already form an opinion, good or bad, about show designs for the upcoming season. Absolutely amazing...

And you can make this determination in March when only a small handful of corps have even announced their show, let alone put up a sample of their music? Wow! You're really good! (/sarcasm) Edit: Awe heck, I'll just take your lead and sell my 50 yard line seats now. Any takers? (really /sarcasm)

yes they did survive. All what, 55 of them?

ok, so explain why with amps this couldn't be done, when now, the pit upfront with the speakers are causing balance issues? I mean it worked for Phantom

you get enough complaints, you don't get pulled from a panel. you get pulled from the roster. Have you judged? It isn't all cupcakes and roses. There may be things you personally don't like or agree with, but you have to do what the rules say...and sometimes don't say. Blend and balance isn't liking into account a few kids felt. That can't be controlled like blend and balance is. And now with this new app, you can control the sound board from anywhere, and when tested last year in Indy, that corps had their worst balance of the week. let me know next time you go to critique. I can't wait to see your eyes bug out you're right, but isn't just expectations. it's realism. There is still a problem or you wouldn't see people still complaining about it on here 7 years after the first amp was turned on. I've called out a band for amp balance issues. I sat there and got yelled at for it. The guy next to me did the same thing. he got yelled at for it. "you hurt our score"...well duh, when I can't hear your battery during the drum break because your amps are on 25, yes, you don't deserve box 4. When I can't hear your winds and brass...during a hit...because the amps were on 25, you don't deserve box 4. that band is STILL #####ing about it. the expectations are set and rarely met. You get people whow ant the pit to get more love, and you have people who want the battery to get more love. The best way of fixing it was to keep the upstairs percussion judge, but they dropped it. That's the one time I saw balance issues get called...Bluecoats 08 at Allentown. Pit way hot, and go look at the recap for how different the field and upstairs scores were. oh yeah, that guy got the next week off. Finals week even moreso, corps need to hear the fans talk about the issue. especially when it's against the rules. the real issue, I say again, is indoors. you move finals outside again, and over half of the issues go away. I'd bet on it

With modern drill, simply watching major will not work. If everyone plays with the hands, you will have ensemble tears all over the place. A lot of different groups use a lot of different methods to work out the phasing issues. With drum corps, where you have entire ensembles full of strong members, and tons of time to clean it, it seems like an individual responsibility concept works best. The idea is, in rehearsal, you put the met in the back of the field. Everyone plays exactly with what they hear from the met, and watches the hands, and memorizes how far ahead of the hands they have to play in order to be perfectly in time. The major conducts exactly with the met, and if the theory is working, all sounds get to the major at the same time. Sometimes individual sections can designate a person to be responsible for that timing space, and giving that to the rest of the group. This method puts a lot of responsibility on each individual, so it can be risky, and can expose a lot of individual errors if you don't have a strong membership. Another method I've seen used is identifying specific listening centers in every part of the field, and making that section (usually the one furthest from the major at the time) responsible for the time. With traditional drill, this was usually the battery, but with modern movement concepts, it can be any section that has parts that clearly show the time. This method can be imperfect because it can be tricky to pass those timing responsibilities from group to group. It is advantageous to groups with less experienced membership (such as a high school group) because the stronger members in the group can take a little more control. In either method, the drum major is no longer responsible for the time. He/she goes with what she hears or sees.

Said that last year too and look what that turned into. "La Suerte de Los Tontos!? YES!!! Back to old BD finally! Wait...what is this!?"

Best: 1) Much better transportation than in the past. 2) The surviving corps understand it's a business and are more fiscally responsible. 3) Fan Network Worst: 1) Switch to Bb rendering drum corps nothing more than an elitist brass marching band with a puny wimpy sound (which is often augmented by a synth in a vain attempt at recouping that volume) unless you are standing in the horn arc. (big loss) 2) MUCH smaller marching season, and despite starting MUCH later shows are incredibly dirty and more often written to a drill rather than the drill written to the music. Music suffers horribly. 3) The loss of the Olympic style retreats where the corps would parade off saluting the winners and then the winners would do their show as an encore.

Best 1. Fan Network 2. Adding valves all the way to any key brass. 3. Asymmetrical drill 4. Grounded pit Worst 1. Electronics 2. Visual overshadowing music 3. The ability for designers and judges to take the purpose of performing away from the activity by putting their "artistic" opinions ahead of entertainment. 4. Domes... more so Indy for however many years. I know it was supposed to be three.. but I wanted to give "worst" one more because number three I don't see as "DCI's" fault... I mean it is... but you can blame that more on individuals than the organization as a whole. And I added a 4th best to balance it out.

Best: •The increased use of substantial corps food trucks, essentially rolling kitchens, that has contributed to better nutrition of corps members. •Cardio-vascular training and medical screening. The first has helped get the members in shape and the second has revealed numerous maladies that were previously undiscovered, allowing the members to be treated to assure their health and safety. •The sphere of influence drum corps had on the development of the sophistication and quality of competitive marching bands. Worst: •The premature loss of some of our most creative and outstanding individuals. •The increased goal among members to get the perfect all-around tan, all summer long, resulting (I believe) in an increased likelihood of skin cancer cases in the future. •The loss of Whitewater as a place we visit every year. It is our first and our most endearing shrine and it's got a sense of place like no other stadium and drum corps community.

I get that, and you may be right. I think you marched around the same time I did (mid/late 90's), and if your corps was similar to mine there were many nights over the summer when someone picked up the latest DCW, and over the corps of a few days the paper makes its way up and down the aisles, from one bus to another. It's a goofy sentimental thing, I know, and maybe that doesn't go on any more. Just one of those silly memories: the kind that most 'normal' people wouldn't get, but one that is definitely a part of my experience.

artificial = fake so....fake music? fake instrument? fake musician?

drumcorps has completely disintegrated since the introduction of A&E........wait..... NOT

No, not at all. Vocals have been legal for decades in drum corps.

You make e a good good point... that is unless you think "not singing in drum corps" is as much a tradition as playing with a baseball in Baseball. I think you're really pushing it... The musical realm has less defined boundaries of what is acceptable and what isn't. Unlike sports the rules are pretty much set in place and they don't "really" change. Sports are much less about creativity than drum corps and drum corps thrives off of it. Baseball, Football, basketball initially were created under "creative" thought processes but it doesn't need that to survive. Sports are more about stamina, strength, physical prowess, and expanding on those terms not how "creatively" you can dribble a ball or score a touch down (maybe more like how efficiently/ cleverly you can do those things) A better example would be the use of those new high tech swim suits that all those Olympic swimmers wear. Those suits actually make the swimmer go faster and I remember there was some controversy surrounding them because it wasn't traditional, it created "fake" record runs because it more about the suit doing the work not the actual swimmer. I guess that's sorta like electronics/ singing in drum corps.