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Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that the people who are the most vociferous and adamant about collusion, score tampering, conspiracy theory, judge incompetency, etc. etc. are never the people that are actually directly involved (members) with the organizations in question? At the same time, the people who ARE directly involved, while being the most competitive, hard core, driven people, with so much seemingly to loose, are the first to extend a hand of congratulations to the organizations that were the source of "controversy" to others. If you haven't already seen it, check out the post that Frank Ponzo (soloist with Cabs) sent Andrea Gwyn (drum major for Bucs) on facebook. Class acts, both of them. Perhaps those participants have a somewhat different perspective? Things that make you go hmmmmm.... Just sayin' Dan

Not being able to NOT watch Carolina Gold's Colorguard. Well staged, Well choreographed and well performed. Watching Bushwackers from the back. Impressed. Playing the opening statement with Govies and realizing there are only 12 of us producing such a big sound.

I must be missing something with BDB that others are seeing. I've been listening to and watching the show since the preseason recordings came out on the BD app, and yea they're good, but it's not like they were light years ahead of SCVC. Also, after seeing all corps on Thursday and most live and on Fan Network all season, I am still shocked that they were placed that high on Thursday and Friday, but also shocked that so many agree that they're that good. Don't get me wrong, the kids are talented and the show design was impressive when they're called a B corps, but I wouldn't have had them higher than 18th, and I don't think they would make finals without huge improvements in the near future, if ever.

Saw the Bucs and Cabs in Wayne,NJ show back in July. I told my wife then that IF Bucs ever get a handle on that show, that they would win. Demand of simultanious responsibility on the performers was incredible. Question was would they be able to get it by finals. Answer is yes. If there was another week or 2 to go, watch out! I was also impressed by what Cabs were doing....breaking new ground for such a storied corps! All the body work in the show by the musicians also adds simultanious resposibility.... The theme was pretty obvious. The hornline cranked!!! Fusion Core also had a show with lots of body and a theme that was obvious....and a hornline that cranked! At Finals that night, I felt everyone performed incredible performances of their programs. The judges placed them where they did, as they saw it for everyone. No matter what, someone is going to disagree with the results. As a performer, once we get over the intensity of that night; and for some, the disappointment, we are filled with joy and love for our Drum Corps family that we fought all year with to be the best we could be. And for our extended family from the other corps who toiled as hard as we did. The true winning that we all get to experience is the family of drum corps.....Relationships that last a life time! I'm ready to start for next season already..... See y'all on the field or in the stands!

I offered a couple Phantom Regiment ideas on the "next year's shows" thread. I've long been championing Sibelius. In a Summer Garden Symphony No. 1 - Sibelius In a Summer Garden/Walk to the Paradise Garden - Delius Symphony No. 5 - Sibelius Enigma Symphony I, mvmt IV and In the South - Elgar Cello Concerto, mvmt III - Elgar Enigma Variations 2 and 4 - Elgar Symphony 1, mvmt IV and Enigma Variations 13 and 14 - Elgar

It would be a very bad idea, IMO, though not to say it will never happen. Although, if you are talknig about the back office, maybe it would be possible, and even desirable, though I'm not sure what DCI would get from such a deal. If you are really talking about competitively integrating the two...I hope not. DCA corps, being weekend-only, are nowhere close to being as proficient in June and July as they end up by Labor Day...August is really the time when the DCA corps are reaching their peaks, performance-wise. Mixing them on a regular basis with the DCI Junior corps would only highlight the performance level differences for potential members. DCI champs are in early August. DCA champs are Labor Day weekend. I don't see DCI moving to later on in the year, given when schools start, and given the rehearsal schedules of DCA, moving them up to DCA-time doesn't seem like such a great idea either. Plus, the all-age corps use the Monday Holiday as their get-home day, which permits members to minimize taking vacation time for drum corps shows. Unless you leave the all-age champs where they are, but then, what would be the point of merging? Given the youth focus of DCI, would there be an impact on their not-for-profit status if they mixed in DCA? That is a question, as I don't know the answer at all. Would it have a negative impact on Open class in DCI, if potential members decide to march in a relatively decent all-age weekend corps as opposed to their local Open class corps? Might it impact the other way? Would current all-age members choose to march DCI Open class or lower placing WC corps in larger numbers, if they are in the same basic performance arena? Both organizations provide excellent service to their member units, and I'd hate to see DCA treated as a step-child if they were folded into DCI, which is what I think would happen sooner or later.

Obviously a bit biased here, but for me was to lead the Skliners back onto the field of competition for the first time since a rain-drenched prelims in 2006. It was very exciting for me to be on the podium interacting with the folks I've sat in the audience with for the last 23 years. I hope the audience enjoyed that show as much as the Skyliners did performing it. It was a blast!!

See those folks in the back stands...those are the overflow band members who just did not fit in the form.

Unless crown gets Mike Gaines or something, I don't think they are going to do better than Leon May. There are lots of 'good' designers, but not really any at the 'top 5' design level besides those who are already there. I say stick to what works. His work has gotten better and better over the years IMO, while other designers seem to be slipping.

I think they should move very little, until they see the on field adjudicator cross onto the field, then they should all chase him/her like zombies. hahahaahah.

I know we've had lots of these before, but I don't want to dig them back up. I'm hoping that people will put up pieces that have never-or at least, rarely-been done. Any genre is fine, and feel free to say which corps would fit best with the piece. My list, which I'll probably update from time to time.: Orchestral pieces Low Symphony—Philip Glass (any corps, please just do it) The Black Maskers-Roger Sessions (my favorite is from 18:30 on...would be a great intro to a show) Wind Ensemble/Brass Ensemble pieces Baron Cimetiere’s Mambo (thanks to Nikk for commissioning this one)—Donald Grantham Trauersinfonie—Wagner (could be an instant classic for Phantom just like Elsa's Procession) The Place Where Dreams Come True James Horner Other Our Prayer—Brian Wilson (Crown or the Cadets)

Ha! On several occasions when I played in the TubaChristmas in Akron, there were upwards of 500 performers, so the first several rows of audience seats in the Civic Theater were indeed filled by players. Here's a picture: I'm in the back with a sousaphone.

Listen, I'm not here to try and convince two or three people to throw out all of their Bucs souvies and buy Cabs souvies. There is absolutely nothing wrong with enjoying their program. They had a hell of a show put together and they performed it very well on Sunday. If you scroll back a few pages, you'll see not only did I give them credit for their win, but admitted they were the better corps that night. Maybe the Bucs should be happy I'm not their judge, but the same goes for you and the Cabs. I'm not coming on here trying to argue the two programs, just peoples rationale and some of the silly comments. If what you wrote is what you took from their program, that is totally fine. I gave several specific examples about what Cabs did to support their theme and their show, and you gave several examples for Bucs. You helped prove my point. My initial post was regarding VOREASON saying Bucs had "A load more" content. My argument still stands. They didn't have a load more. They had exactly what they needed to support their show, just like Cabs. If I missed a few things, than that's just how I received it. I saw Bucs several times this year and still, even on Sunday, thought that the strength of their theme was weaker than in years past where you had no question what was going on. Conversely, in years past when the Cabs seemed to be just mashing a few classic Hawthorne titles together with no apparent theme, this year they had one of the strongest in the circuit. That was the basis for my whole discussion.

I want to hear SCV or Bluecoats play chendalier by Sia in a slower dramatic way, that would be amazing. :)

Hey, I'm not saying that there wasn't disappointment in the air that night. I don't think I said a word to anyone for about 12 hours! I am probably one of the most competitive people out there. Sure, in the heat of the moment there were plenty of ill thoughts. But...cooler heads prevail, time lets us evaluate the entire experience and again realize why we all do this. I think that is the big difference between most people that share the experience with their perspective drum corps families and those that observe from the stands. We have the benefit of the experiences that led up to that night. The private things that went into the making of all of our perspective performances that bind us together. At least that is the way I see it. Certainly can't and won't speak for everyone...not even others in my own corps. That is just the way I see it. Dan

According to the DCI website, Hopkins' twitter post passed from George Oliviero, and other sources, it is sad to hear that Earl Joyce passed away. With Rick Maas, the Granas, the Massachusetts group, and the Jersey judges, he was a major factor in the determination of early DCI adjudication and forecasted future changes many which determine our visual interpretations today. http://www.dci.org/news/view.cfm?news_id=eb23439e-492a-4a8e-a658-a3f6bc884e48 As a young person who sat with him at those early clinics and meetings, saw his energy and consistency in his "running" style to sample all elements of the corps for all corps during the tick era and hearing his comments from the box and in critique, I believe we owe much to a man who was quiet about his contribution but resolute in his determination and dedication to the activity. I remember young George Zingali and him going eye to eye in considering where a judge had to stand for proper arc adjudication, standard versus syncopated/irregular intervals, and non-linear drill. I remember him running to catch every form no matter what the corps and what the temperature of the day. I remember the corps members wondering where the judge got his energy. I remember him, Doctor Baggs, J. Clarke Williams, and Gene Monterestelli always asking how to fit Church in for Sunday before heading off to the next stop on tour. I remember his time, example, concern, and openess mentoring young judges, those interested in becoming judges, and assisting young instructors and techs (like me) to pass along the skills to teach, to evaluate, and to appreciate. When so many of our World Class corps are celebrating significant anniversaries of their tradition and history, remembering Earl Joyce is to remember who we are, where we came from, and how we came to be. May God, the ultimate Judge, now reward this man for his many good labors. https://www.facebook.com/george.hopkins.yea/posts/10152401895961911

I actually think Don does a good job with the brass arranging most of the time. He's not the program coordinator so he doesn't have complete control over the music and how they want to use it. I think PR may want to look at Dan Farrell and Dan Richardson and their roles with programming personally.

Are you telling me there are no conspirators in this activity? whoa man... WHOAAAAA! Come closer.... shhhhh.... they're everywhere man! everywhere!!!

One of my favorites was encountering my pal Dan Detweiler, in the ready area just before he led Atlanta CV onto the field. He's a consummate pro.

I disagree. That would be like saying that Crown plays their runs so well, they could just do a whole show of it and not get hammered. Variety is the key in all sections. They need to show they can do it all. The ones that can (and do it all well) get the top placements. That is why some guards that look so good at what they do still don't place well...they don't do enough.

Now... be nice to VOR. His entire world was shaken to its core this summer when the Bucs actually lost a show.

(Reading, PA – September 4, 2014) – The Reading Buccaneers Drum & Bugle Corps today announced the election of William Snook as Corps Director for a two-year term. Snook succeeds James C. Gruber, who retired from the helm of the Buccaneers organization after a 19-year tenure that saw him bring the corps back to prominence in the all-age drum corps circuit from the brink of extinction and enjoy a decade of competitive dominance and standard-setting influence in the all-ages activity. Snook brings a deep and varied resume in pageantry activities to his new role. He marched in the Buccaneers bass drum line for three seasons, in 1984, 1985 and 1990. He began his work on the Buccaneers’ home show, Big Sounds in Motion in the late 1980s and deepened his involvement in the 1990s. He has been a leader on the show committee for over 18 years. Snook returned to the Buccaneers on an even deeper level in 2005 as Quartermaster and truck driver, among a variety of activities. He became Assistant Director in 2012 and now steps into the Director’s role. Snook was inducted into the Buccaneers Hall of Fame in 2009. Snook’s activities extend well beyond the Buccaneers. He first joined the DCI East Committee in 1986, working the corps gate. For more than 20 years, he has chaired the committee responsible for the marketplace/souvenir area. For more than 25 years, he has served as a music educator for local high school marching bands and indoor ensembles, with a focus on percussion education. Snook’s dedication to the Buccaneers is a true family affair. He met his wife Amy during the 1984 and 1985 seasons, and they married in 1986. They both share the same passion for the Buccaneers, the members and the drum corps activity and Amy’s contributions to the corps’ success – running two shows, driving trucks and providing administrative support – run as deep as Bill’s. They have two daughters: Elizabeth, who is an active support staff member and show volunteer, and Perri, who has been a member of the Buccaneers’ color guard for four years. When Snook isn’t busy tending to Buccaneers, business, he is a Client Services/Digital Media Specialist with Vistacom Inc., an audio/video integrator based in Allentown, PA. Snook begins his new role motivated by the standards set by his predecessor. “I know I have very big shoes to fill, but I look forward to the challenge,” he said. “I look forward to upholding the traditions of class and excellence that have been mainstays of the Reading Buccaneers and doing everything I can provide our members with a world-class experience.” Plans are underway for the corps’ 2015 season. The Buccaneers’ season will kick off with Membership Day 2015 on Sunday, November 30, 2014, at Twin Valley High School, in Elverson, PA. Registration begins at 11 a.m., with the program starting at Noon. Founded in 1957, the mission of the Reading Buccaneers Drum & Bugle Corps is to provide men and women of all ages a unique and enriching educational experience in the performing arts in which they develop as individuals and as performers. The Buccaneers were founding members of Drum Corps Associates and won the first-ever DCA World Championships in 1965 and won twelve additional titles since. For more information, visit www.readingbuccaneers.org

So now MBI is moving too much for you? Make up your mind.

Just keeping it on top.... Please Read Before You Post If you *know* who it is.... please wait a while (not everyone is on here all day or even daily for that matter) If there have been no Guesses..........Then give a *challenging* hint. When giving hints on these try to be creative and just dangle the tiniest tidbit. Make people really think / work on it. Then wait it out a while before tossing another tiny vague tidbit... C'mon we've got to make these last a little longer. PLEASE?? Also, any comments made MUST be made in good taste... this is a fun loving thread... not a revenge match. Please spew your venom elsewhere. Please submit any questions and / or pics in their full size (preferably JPG format), with full description - names, Corps, Stadium, Year... etc. to: The *Guess Who* Mailbox Thanx in advance! All that said and out of the way.. Guess Who # 529 ? https://www.flickr.com/photos/30432143@N00/14929707801/in/set-72157601444249093 (Click on pic to enlarge / enhance)

No

I liked 2013 far better than 2014. '86 is their top show. Mucho amor and respect for their B corps this year, however. I thought Bluecoats had a far more memorable and innovative show.

One possible obstacle to an alumni corps doing the exhibition in that Finals time slot... I know several of the corps, or least a decent amount of members from those corps, head for home after they perform on Sunday morning/afternoon. It would mean another night's stay for them. Of course, if a corps knew far enough in advance it was doing the exhibition, then that corps could make those arrangements. Just spit-ballin' here.

You only lost two shows before Prelims... Rochester and Montreal. And some corps from Long Island won only two shows before Prelims.

Point taken, but another reason to be thankful for DCI (and one of the reasons it was founded)

i would love to see boston crusaders as well as blue stars keep pushing at phantom. would also love to see something "different" from the madison scouts. i feel as though they had the right idea with their 2012 show, and if they can really pull something like that off this year, i would go as far as to say that they could be in the top 7 area. i want to see bluecoats and vanguard fight for the gold and push bd into 3rd. i am not hating on bd, but its getting boring seeing them win year after year. I wouldn't be surprised to see the oregon crusaders make finals, and finally, i do hope spirit is more successful. heres how i feel things could hash out. 1. Bluecoats 2. Santa Clara Vanguard 3. Blue Devils 4. Carolina Crown 5. Cadets 6. Cavaliers 7. Blue Knights 8. Madison Scouts 9. Blue Stars 10. Boston Crusaders 11. Phantom Regiment 12. Spirit Of Atlanta 13. Oregon Crusaders 14. Crossmen 15. Troopers 16. The Academy 17. Colts 18. Mandarins 19. Pacific Crest 20. Jersey Surf 21. Cascades 22. Pioneer

Random thoughts... Thank you, Chris! As an alumni of Minnesota Brass I just have to commend the Cabs for their spectacular climb back to the top echelon of corps, where they deserve to be! I wish MBI could compete regularly with you guys, the Bucs, Fusion, CV, Gold etc. But geography is an expensive thing. DCA and the entire all-age activity is strong because of corps like the Caballeros & Buccaneers (and the other great stalwarts like the Hurricanes and Skyliners). As a former member of a somewhat "outsider" corps, I hope people understand that Minnesota Brass always strives to perform at the highest level they can attain. And because of that, MBI sometimes comes in and rocks the boat among the eastern corps. They are often the wild card in the scheme of things. As such, MBI can upset the final order. But that's because Minnesota Brass Inc. subscribes to the same philosophy of excellence that the Buccaneers, Caballeros. Fusion Core, C2, CV and the rest of the DCA corps do. And MBI is very good at it. I just hope that the members of the Caballeros do not view this season or the results of finals as a failure, or the product of collusion or conspiracy. The verdict of the judges is beyond any corps' control. What is within our control is our own performance. The audiences know that. And memories are often stronger than statistics.

Well-said, Chris!!! See you next year!!!

Thank you, Chris. You are a class act and I can say without reservation that the friendships I have formed across corps with folks like you are one of the things I look forward to year after year and keep me coming back. It was great to see our corps pushing each other to excel. They are all winners for the growth and experience and we gave fans a helluva season of outstanding drum corps. I will definitely see you this fall and will look forward to our usual banter.

Favorite pre-show = a beer or two, maybe some red wine if it's a Cali show and I want to get better in the mood. Pizza or subs are fun but some sort of meal plans are a requirement. Oh wait: you mean what corps do before the show? Hmmm...

Blue Devils FTuning and it's not even close............

Good lord, Cabs Alumni are blowing everyone else right off the field. What a great mix of old-school and great quality of sound. That's really impressive.

IMO, and this is only my opinion, they would have won in '88 had it not been Madison's anniversary. My second-hand information is that Gail Royer knew it was a great show and intentionally repeated it in a year when there were no extraneous circumstances affecting the outcome. I've always believed what Gail believed.

...Tambourines?

Clean city and a phenomenal sounding hornline from beginning to end.

I'm begging and pleading with the Blue Devils to go retro and give us a "hybrid" old school / new school show with OS traditional jazz, the OS uniform, no props and no artsy fartsy BS, just old school music combined with new school up tempo drill. Do F-Tuning for the pre-show. Theme the show as "Past and Present......The Old meets the New." :thumbup:

I'll never understand why, when a percussion program is weak, everyone automatically starts naming old, retired guys to fill the spot. There are always uber-talented up-and-comers who would do fantastically in those spots (given a few years to build), and it would be a lot more interesting. I wasn't happy at all when Crown hired Hannum a few years ago, or Kuhn at Phantom... they could have given a new guy a chance to shine, but instead, it's just the G7 recycling the same few names over and over and over...

Really feel the activity need to develop more new talent but seeing the howls of fans over a placement drop…they are not allowed the time to develop . people want new shows, new music, new, new, new yet they want the same old staff names? I know…staff names show up in the scores. Staff, the only acceptable place for old, conservative dinosaurs in the inbreed marching world

2013 DCI Champs need a new Program Director already?

Not that there is anything wrong with that!

You know, I wonder how much effort goes into staff development. I love cars. My dad worked for Ford and as a result, I grew up associated with their brands - hence the "Lincoln," moniker. I have been fortunate to watch the workings and management style of Ford's recently retired CEO Alan Mullaly. He came in and fired few people as part of the reworkings of Ford yet his management style changed a corporation and will for years to come be noted as a template for organizing a group of people. The solution is not always to fire or replace people. Alan changed the attitude of Ford. Sometimes the right people are there but the right atmosphere isn't. What prevents being effective? Is it something within other people? I sincerely believe in the philosophy that everyone has something to give. I hope some corps learn from this and learn to enhance the staff they have. I hate the "fire them" attitude. I absolutely hate it.

#4) Closer for Madison Scouts 2013..."Never Walk Alone".....yikes! Major tearjerker! #3) "Laura" hit in BD 2010, amazing moment......also the reprise of "Laura" during closer and whole closing drill....breathtaking. #2) Company front and "Simple Gifts" during SCV 2009......are you kidding me?? You can't be interested in drum corps and not be moved by that! Period! #1) Personally, the entire Star of Indiana re-union production during Semi's 2010...but particularly serenading the age outs of 2010 with "When you Wish upon a Star"....holy ####!

Lake Central high school used it in an absolutely amazing way this past fall, one of my favorite put together shows in drum corps, high school, ect. Would love to hear that more on the field.

Oooh, good one. I should've put that one on my list. I thought about adding Soundings by McTee, but the Cavies already (sort of) did it. But, I wanted this to be mostly music that had never or rarely been done before, so good one.

Yeah, you're the one who introduced me to the Jongen, so thanks.

I agree. I had no problems switching from G Mello to F Horn or Bb Trumpet. When I first heard the Cadets with thier new Bb horns in 2000 I was sold. But don't get me wrong, I will always enjoy the more "meaty" sound of the G bugles. No matter what key it's in it's still drum & BUGLE corps to me!