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Six legged or 2 legged ? :-)

I would be in favor of a ban on props for the next several years until corps can get back on their feet. This activity survived without them for years and years, we can survive again. Lets let the groups save some money.

When it comes to church groups, specifically Catholic Church sponsored corps in the Boston Archdiocese, there’s no one reason for moving away from sponsorship. Boston Crusaders, St. Mary’s Cardinals of Beverly, Holy Family Defenders, all grew too big and the splits had rocky moments but overall were pretty much amicable. There are at least four versions and many variations of the IC Reveries case. The senior corps (senior in Boston was still a junior corps) was disbanded by an angry pastor after the 1966 VFW sit in. That is the only detail the various versions agree on, but the feeder corps remained and later was one of the corps that merged to form North Star. The disbanded senior corps became 27th Lancers. Even if the 1966 sit in did not happen, Reveries would have either split from the parish or a new corps would have been formed. George Bonfiglio’s vision for drum corps was too big for a parish activity and while I know those affiliated with 27th view the pastor of the time negatively and some of 27th’s rivals see him as wonderful and his reputation maligned, regardless of who is correct, his parish was his ship and the two would have eventually collided. St. Francis Sancians of Weymouth was a bit on again/off again regarding sponsorship and my understanding is it depended on parish staff. The disbandment of St. Kevin’s Emerald Knights of Dorchester and St. Rose Scarlet Lancers of Chelsea was largely due to a change of demographics. Majestic Knights of Charlestown seemed to die a slow death. I believe they were independent at the end. By the 1970’s, corps outgrew the CYO rules. For any CYO competitive activity, whether it be drum corps, bands, drill teams, or athletics, 75% of the members had to be Catholic and registered members of the parish, 15% could be non Catholic but needed to live in the parish boundaries, 10% could be recruited from outside the parish but needed the permission of their home parish to participate. While it may sound restrictive, given the demographics it meant most kids could participate. As recruiting became more difficult, the number of non parishioners participating sometimes was as high as 70%. The band I was in is a good example. When I joined, the majority were members of the sponsoring parish. When I left, it was about 60% non parish. The CYO Circuit waved the the rules for many drum corps, drill teams, and bands but the athletic teams still had to follow the recruitment policies. Many parishes believed it was unfair for musical activities to compete with exemptions but not the sports teams. Others wondered why the parish sponsored an activity for so many non parishioners. As a priest I think allowing any young person who wants to march to do so is the best idea but as a pastor/administrator who has to budget, I understand the financial concerns.

I think this exchange between you and JimF is DCP at it's best. A respectful discussion with differing opinions and ideas. Not so common on Internet message boards and I appreciate it. (and I think you're both right).

Will you let us know what their policies are regarding people going to watch? I want to go sometime next week. Thanks!

Corps like all of the activity form their own groups. DCI, WGI, DCA is not responsible for forming organizations, never were, unless I missed something in the past several decades. " Bad Management, good management, reluctant management " means Corps management and their individual management to move forward or not. AS it was then

As a fan, love ‘em...unless they suck. Mostly they suck. As an instructor, absolutely hate them. The implementation burden placed on everyone is ridiculous. (90% of that burden goes to membership, which is the last place it should go.) But seriously, designers have to think of them (mostly trial and error), builders have to make them (mostly trial and error), corps have to pay for them and the transportation, and worst of all: membership has to transport, assemble, disassemble, and implement them into the show. It’s a testament to the astronomical talent of the membership of championship level drum corps that they can still perform at such high levels, even though rehearsal and warmup time is severely impacted by managing props. Judges love them, thus they’re not going away, no matter how poorly they’re integrated into the show. Same deal with electronics: have to use them to get points, even if horribly implemented. I predict a future where DCI charges admission to the warmup area, because more fans will start doing that instead of going to shows. The cost is getting crazy, and half the shows are unwatchable because of poor prop/electronic integration.

Plus, if you sit low, you’re right on the field.

(continued from previous post) Evidently, the costlier forms of activity the top groups wanted were not sustainable. They could only afford to provide membership benefits to a small number of corps. Their member corps were not enough to fill their own show lineups, and they could not stage championship events comparable in scale to AL/VFW Nationals or World Open using only the member corps of a closed club. Both DCA and DCI have therefore relied on other corps to fill the gaps, making their shows and/or tours viable. And they have opened the clubs to allow the possibility of a select few other corps obtaining membership. Using that as a lure to string them along in continued underclass participation, the DCA and DCI Championship events enjoy the draw of a full-scale open championship without having to pay the underclass their fair share of the profits.

Maybe... if I can find a way around the "500 internal server error" that prevents me from posting the whole thought. Both DCI and DCA run based on the model of haves and have-nots. Some of their corps are "members". They get access to all the shows they want/need, with enhanced pay (membership has its benefits). Meanwhile, there are other corps who are not members (that includes "associate members" and other such euphemisms) who get less access to shows and less pay. These circuits were created for the purpose of establishing/maintaining a sustainable operating model for competing drum corps. Why, then, do we have these seemingly permanent underclasses? It is not fair, equitable, or even IMO ethical. Well, thanks to several other contributors to this thread, I can explain why (see next post).

I would highly recommend Cedarburg. If the Rotary Club is in charge, they put on a well run show. You can easily walk from the high school to Main St for a good meal. It’s almost a little too quaint. Lol

Responding as an FYI: Not close enough to DCA today to know the inner workings. IMO DCAs biggest issue has always been dealing with corps outside of the northeast. Back in my day there was a “lesser corps” circuit that ran shows in smaller places for cheaper prices. To host a DCA sanctioned show a host had to provide set amount of prize money and these places couldn’t raise the ticket revenue for the cost. So they held the lesser circuit shows with a smaller ticket price. Problem in the late 70s was as costs went up even the lesser corps needed a bigger prize money payout. So this raised the show costs and lot of places quit having shows as they couldn’t afford it or they could make the money doing other things. So corps had to travel further to shows which jacked up travel expense, which meant they needed higher prize payout, which meant show costs went up…. repeat vicious circle. Edit: forgot as shows upper the ticket prices less people attended so eventually hosts took in even less money. Was in a bunch of these lesser circuit shows for a few years and watched as they went away. Top of that the economy went bad in some areas which hurt membership and sponsorship in their local corps. Lack of corps killed that circuit apparently

Purely as a fan, that thing was bada$$ - that whole show was awesome. I'd put that squarely in the category of "good use of props." Mike

Trying to remember which Class A All Age corps had a show title that ended with “… and don’t call us Shirley”. I would call my show “Theme… we no need no steenking theme” and play RI Matadors wildest stuff…

Someone should do a show called 'Five Kick-A** Songs & some Cool Drill'

Both.

I have no problem with props when used appropriately and by appropriately I mean that they enhance the MUSIC production...As the MUSIC becomes more complex I don't want my sensory organs to be overwhelmed by EXPENSIVE, gaudy, props that take my attention away from what should be a cohesive show on a FOOTBALL field..As long as the mm's talents are on full display so be it...If all I talk about after a show is how the props looked (good or bad), maybe the mm's efforts become underappreciated or overhyped..peace

I could, if not for this 500 internal server error I keep getting. I will try again later...

Just got an email that Lancers are having their first practice since early 2020 on June 13. As always would welcome any new members. Details lancersdrumandbuglecorps.com and sorry I can’t make this a link with my not so smart phone.

I would offer the following; Boston's placements pre-2017 with entirely different management and design teams are not an indicator of anything. If anything, BAC's 12th place finish skews the number completely, and it is impossible for past performance to indicate future performance (ie: 2016-2017).

I had a client in Fort Myers that had a large, head-office complex. In front was a large lagoon with a driveway that circled around it leading to the main entrance and parking lot. The lagoon had a resident alligator which would periodically decide to sun itself on the driveway. When that happened, cars would back up and everyone would just wait for the alligator to move. It was actually quite funny when this happened.

The latest from Adam Tan.

YES. My parents were fond of them, especially Dad.

in some cases yes because those moving away had no idea how to pay for everything. and churches and posts would have gotten out of corps in time DCI or no DCI. How many posts no longer active? membership is declining. Same for churches. a drum corps for kids is not in their charter of what they are supposed to be about, and s the world went on, those groups decided to focus more on their charter mission

agreed. but...for those corps that worse the same uniforms for years and years and years you had replacement costs for full or parts of uniforms, repair costs...instrument repair costs....mylar drum heads by the crate weekly...and don't forget costs that don't show on a corps ledge back then...kids often buying their own food. and everything was far less expensive back then. most corps didn't carry much if any insurance except for ones smart enough to listen to Don Warren. Sure housing was often free, but liability for schools has killed that golden goose..and even then you had complaints about haves and have nots.

i know. i've said it many times in many places, but why ruin the myth?

We're not disagreeing. I mention Bloo/Crown only because that's where Boston wants to be. Digging out the trusty 10 yr avg finals placement...

Before MikeD jumps in with something we both agree with I’ll say it first. 😈 How many of those 100s of corps lasted more than a few years? Corps going away wasn’t a new problem. The problem is after the 70s or so there were no longer new corps being created to replace the ones who disbanded

Wondering where Cavaliers’ “Machine” would place today. Not a single prop on the field.

My point is, because you need some clarification to assist you with any real constructive feedback, is that the majority have produced poor quality props or introduced props as an afterthought. Many like Phantom and the Cadets, with the exception of the ‘DOOR’, have never figured out how to use them. Others beat you over the head with the literal aspects of props i.e. bridges. Then repeat musical phrases like London Bridge is Falling Down as if the audience is too ignorant to figure it out. The list of successful prop use is much shorter than the list of colossal failures.

You gave the great examples. Now do the bad ones.

True and same can be said of over written shows, over written music books, over written guard books, trying to be something your members aren't

Following a one-year hiatus, this special one-night event will feature amazing sights and sounds with five iconic DCI World Championship performances including Carolina Crown's Inferno (2015); The Cavaliers’ Propaganda (2016); Blue Devils’ Metamorph (2017); Santa Clara Vanguard’s Babylon (2018); and Bluecoats' The Bluecoats (2019). Well, I dunno now. If you're going to show blasts from the past, those are some pretty good blasts to see in a full screen super sound theatre. For $10 bucks or whatever it is, plus the camaraderie of some old corps buddies, that might be worth the trip. Their popcorn is a lot better than mine anyway.

DCI email dropped this afternoon about the 'Celebration Countdown' at the cinemas featuring 5 iconic DCI World Championship shows: https://www.dci.org/news/drum-corps-international-will-march-back-into-cinemas-on-july-15?utm_source=sfmc&utm_medium=email

i'm sure Flo will show everything Indy. my hunch is with no actual competition, Fathom and DCI don't expect a big turnout

It may not be DCI’s decision. Fathom decides which events it will broadcast, and most likely covers the cost of broadcasting the event. I believe there is a minimum of 300 seats in a theater for a Fathom event. For an average event, a certain number of theaters need to broadcast the event and at least 80% of the seats have to be filled for an event to be profitable. The fewer the theaters broadcasting the event, the more tickets that have to be sold. I seem to recall hearing that 2019 was possibly the last year the opening event was going to be broadcast due to poor ticket sales. Interestingly, 2019 was one of the best years for Big, Live, and Loud ( or Loud and Live, I’ve forgotten the order of the two “L’s”). I’m not sure if this is the case with DCI, but according to a friend of mine who is an assistant manager at a movie theater, for Met Live in HD broadcasts, the Metropolitan Opera gets an upfront fee from Fathom. Movie theaters make very little from ticket sales but do very well with refreshments (there are usually two intermissions) and I know in my area, they get temporary liquor licenses and make big bucks on cocktails. I know some opera fans are concerned ticket prices will skyrocket due to fewer seats being sold if social distancing is required and more to the point, fewer theaters broadcasting the operas since so many theaters have closed. Will one of the Indy events be broadcast? If DCI has any say, the answer would be yes. With fewer theaters and possibly fewer seats, would it be profitable for Fathom? That’s another matter.

The plot thickens. Just did search on 'DCI Celebration Countdown Live' at theatre (AMC) where the quarterfinals were shown (BC, Before Covid); and it comes up as scheduled for 15 July, 8pm eastern, runtime 2 hrs. Tickets not yet on sale. Also pops up in AMC theatre 25 miles away.

Perhaps this will be similar to the ‘Classic Countdowns’ from the early 00’s?

Email I received when I asked about any type of theater event planned for this season. We are planning a movie theater event on July 15. However, it will not be the same as it has been in the past. It will be a celebration of some past drum corps performances with live glimpses into a rehearsal of a Corps preparing for the 2021 Celebration Tour. Flomarching will be streaming live events over the course of the summer. If you can't attend in person, that will be your best option to watch live drum corps in 2021.

What about the bottom line?