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As an alumnus, would i like to see another trophy in the corps office? Sure. But do I want to see it at the expense of the tradition, philosophy, and upholding of the corps' values and brotherhood? Hell no. But do I want them in finals...? You bet your butts I do, that seems to be attainable. To hold your corps values and identity while loosely playing into the game. ugh, i hate using that expression. playing the game. there shouldn't be one. the score sheets aren't even written to create a game. its all invented by the Joffreys in DCI. Off topic thought in 3... 2... 1... I don't want to point a finger and say DCI is messed up, the score sheets are messed up, the direction of the activity is messed up and Madison is all right. That would be silly to say. Because its not all one thing vs the other thing. And as Jurassic Park taught us... life finds a way. Evolution is inevitable. To be honest with all of you out there in the virtual marching pitch of DCP I am less proud of the later 2000's when the corps started to lose its identity. I am proud of the work that the gents did, whether in finals or not, Im proud that they took it all in stride, and kept the brotherhood alive, and their values stood the test of time, but there's a bit of "playing the game" that had to happen to bring them back into finals consistently. Which I understand, but as an activity that is presented as educational, I feel very little of that happens like it did ten years ago and the scoring and ideals are at the top of the concern pile for me. And it stinks to feel that to participate in an activity you have to give up part of yourself and your identity. Seriously, that stinks like a laundry bag coming to the end of the tour week. But I will say that the trend of getting all new stuff every year bothers me. (unis, horns, drums... etc) That is wasteful, which is not how I remember the corps being. Its not how I remember ANY corps that I marched or taught at operating. Its probably why we see less corps ever year, but that's a different thread to start in DCP. You'll hate hearing this but they aren't the only corps struggling to keep their identity in an activity that is in constant fluctuation and striving to "push the envelope". Heck I pushed a manilla one the other day across the desk. It wasn't that hard. I didn't need space pants or a new uni to do it either. (see what I did there... bwahahaha) I know several corps directors of the same box have been told to buy into the new way or expect the same results. Which stinks. that my friends is frackin' annoying. Actually it makes me want to turn big and green and smash stuff wearing only purple shorts. To see so many corps that had developed great identities over years (even you spacepants), and now are struggling to fit some model that is set by a bunch of dorks in polos in an office in Indiana. (think aboot it... I may be onto something here) Its like a big guessing game of what the big secret company wants to present to the public every season and less about what you the ensemble want to present and educate your youth with. ok, enough propaganda and back onto topic... I am proud that they are in finals. Do I want a higher placement, sure, doesn't everyone want that for their corps or even a show they like every season? I know for a fact that they are getting the talent. You can see that in the videos. Will they get more talent with a ring, probably. Will they also get more ego filled applicants? Probably. will they then get members who aren't there to buy into the corps values? probably. I am extremely proud of the corps at this moment. After talking with my little brothers, and how THEY feel about the corps, the show, and what they get out of it, I am actually relieved that it feels like things have come full circle. I liked the last couple shows. Empire, Corps of Brothers, and Time Trip because it had music I can listen to. To me, when you take away the visual and cup-cakey frosting like fluffiness, the show itself should still be able to be listened to on its own. And over the last few years it now feels like we are getting back to that with Madison. We went away for a bit, but we are back. Each corps regime was an extension of the director's persona to an extent. I love all of the directors simply for taking the job on. And year by year, we've gotten a little closer to the Madison of yesteryear, and the addition of the new staff will help to give us the Madison we all know and love. I'm not saying we are going to bring back Malaga, Malaguena, or any other chart the guys in green are known for. In fact... i say leave them be. Make new Madison Classics! They became classics when we played them first, maybe a second time. But don't dig them out. Be the Madison we can be, and make another classic. They names being announced are people who helped create the original classics, let them make new ones in the style of Madison. Less footwork, less BK style dancy-ness (yeah, i know what you're thinking, i shouldn't say it like that, but BK to me has always been the dancy corps, and it works for them) and go back to a strong marching program, tough drill that makes the members hate running that same spiral set of death over and over again, and Boerma's famous last three weeks of tour from the scaffolding "take it back... play louder". Do I want higher placements in the DCI Game of Thrones? sure, do I want the corps to devalue itself, its history or the values and brotherhood instilled in the members. No. Do I want it to gain the throne only to choke to death on the cake on its wedding day? NO. But it feels now, after several years of fluctuation, that they are coming back full circle. Which I believe starts at the top. The guys in charge, like the Starks hold the value at the top of their priorities. Which makes the corps what it is. And this coming season, I feel we'll see something we've not seen in a while. A new Madison, like the old Madison.

Thoughts on the show in Reading: The first few corps played in a pretty steady rain, but despite that...they played well. If you're going to have a show in the raid, have it at a facility like Exeter High School. It's a fantastic field that drains easy. Carolina Gold. Strength of the corps is far and away the color guard. The fact that they performed through the rain as well as they did was remarkable. Show theme is communicated well, but there were some definite rough spots in the brass and percussion. Based on what I saw and heard tonight, I'm not quite sure they are a lock to make finals. White Sabers. I'm sick and tired of band and corps shows using Arabia or Scheherazade as a theme. But good lord, if you're going to do it...do it like this White Sabers corps. This may be a more cohesive program than they had last year, and the mas-up ballad of Scheherazade and Knights in White Satin is masterful. Much like last year's mash-up of the Largo with Dancer in the dark, if this is White Saber's new "schtick", I'm all in. This is absolutely a Class A contender, if not the front runner. Anyone wishing to challenge the White Sabers better have their ducks in a row. Fusion Core. This is a really fun show with a really nice variety of music. The standout section is the guard, but they really aren't weak anywhere. Brass and drums had some dirty spots tonight, but the performance level of the members is really high, and they have a ton of energy. I'm still not a fan of the bed, or rather how it moves. When it's still, they use it well, but moving it is a real eyesore. That said, they are remarkably clean visually...maybe the cleanest corps on the field. If they do anything this week, they should clean the many brass section features. everything else is Championships-ready. Title contender? No. But a shot at third? Absolutely. Cadets 2: I love this show. To be honest, I think it's the better of the two Cadets' programs this year. It's way more entertaining and more "Cadets-y". The color guard as improved immensely, and is no longer holding the corps back. Sadly, clean visual and a weak-at-times brass line is. Percussion was particularly strong. Execution issues aside (and that horse has been beaten elsewhere), it's really a cool, fun program. Buccaneers: Any questions I had about Reading's program were answered tonight. I haven't seen them since Wayne, and it's a completely different drum corps. The groove sections that were square as a country dance in July were really smooth and cool tonight. The messy intro is now really solid, and the Metheny chart is really sweet. The "Break on Through" jam might sound a bit West Chester University, but the crowd loves it, and it's the first time they really cut loose. I stopped counting the number of changes they've clearly made, but they all work. The percussion, brass/percussion movement package, and weapon line are strengths. Brass has improved a lot, but still has issues at times. A contender next week? Absolutely yes. Caballeros: Probably the most entertaining corps on the field, they are strong across the board. Brass is the obvious standout, but the rest of the corps is no slouch either, and the percussion has really improved a lot since June. Cabs have no weak links at all. The theme is easy to understand and plays out well, particularly now that it's set up so well in the pre-show. I'm not sure this was their best run in terms of energy (it's Bucs home show with the crowd reaction that comes with it for the enemy), but they are on the right track to do some real damage next week. When Bucs finished their performance, I figured it was probably going to be a coin toss, if not Cabs by a few tenths. They really are that close, it's not a scheme by DCA to sell tickets (this year, anyway). I left before scores were announced, and the recap isn't up yet, so I'll give my guesses on how I think things may break down caption wise: Brass: Caballeros Percussion: Buccaneers Guard: Fusion Core Visual: Caballeros, but not by a lot Music Effect: Cabs, by several tenths Visual Effect: Coin toss, maybe Cabs by a nose This may be the most top-to-bottom entertaining year in DCA in a while (much like it was in DCI). If you're not going to Rochester, buy the live streams...you won't regret it.

I have no problem with content advisories. But that's not the subject at hand. Now, if you want DCI to put a parental warning on shows, I'm fine with that. It won't affect me either way, and it won't affect the overwhelming majority of folks attending shows either. But if it helps the over-sensitive helicopter parents and the so called "moral leader" types, more power to them.

Oh for the love of god. Clearly you're learning about this as new news and have not been following their foundations and planning which has been public knowledge for at least 2 years. Furthermore, they started back up with a soundsport group instead of just jumping back in like Magic and others did. Do people always have to throw out negativity when something positive happens in this activity.

I only know this... if the Madison Scouts do a Christmas Show, or a show revolving around a long ago Italian filmmaker, or an outer space themed show featuring frisbees, trampolines, and exotic costuming, they will find themselves quickly exiting the TOP 12. The current DCI judging community, most of whom have AARP discount cards in their personal wallets, grew up with the Madison Scouts. While they might say they value something out of the ordinary, when push comes to shove, they have certain expectations in shows from the Scouts, and if the Scouts do a show on jungle Iguanas or some exotic themes of faraway forces of nature, or some such, they will play right into the hands of Cesario and his Crew that really doesn't want that sort of thing from the Madison Scouts ( or even the Troopers ) no matter what they say publically. Cadets, Phantom, SCV have all done rehashed themed shows of late as a redo, and it did not hurt them score wise or placement wise in the least. The Madison Scouts should never... EVER.... do a silent, soft ending to their show, as the judges will simply not allow that from a Madison Scouts as it unnerves them from a 50 year image they justifiably have of this particular Corps. My guess, the new staff recognizes this, and that the Madison Scouts will ditch this failed foray into " going soft " with the ending of their show, and will do a Madison Scouts show, and ending that is classic Madison Scouts. Then like all the non G7 corps, its just a matter of cleaning it, and executing it. Thats my 2 cents worth of advice to the Madison Scouts anyway.

I don't understand this idea that in order to have a competitive show it must be boring. That makes no sense. The judging sheets don't have negative marks for making the crowd go wild. They don't have negative marks for wow moments that people will talk about for years after. You can absolutely have a show that is clean, designed well as to fit in to what the judges are looking for, and still make the crowd go nuts. Thinking you have to pick one or the other is silly. And I disagree about Scouts "winning". It would be nice to see the Scouts win again, but if you consistently put a very competitive show on the field that draws the type of attention the Scouts of the 90s did, then recruiting will be a breeze. I know I didn't join the Scouts because I wanted to win. I joined the Scouts because the shows were fun and challenging to march and play and to top it off the roar of the crowd was amazing. AND, we were still competeting at an elite level.

I will be attending Bridgeport. I almost found a place to march, but was instructed not to until a few weeks of PT. bummer for getting old. But yay for snarky reviewers.

Madison should announce they're gonna do a western show, thereby forcing Troopers to abandon that theme and go with something else. Everybody wins! Then a few months before the start of the season Scouts announce they've decided to not do a western show after all, rather they'll be doing something more in the Madison style. But by then it's too late for Troop to change and they proceed with their Bartok show.. Everybody wins again! I did all this without the assistance of any mood altering medication.

actually they wouldn't have won if Phantom's battery could play clean.

IMHO whether it be the objective era or the subjective era the adjudicary will always use marching or percussion to tell the fans why the obvious winner in fact did not. Clever way to start the " Robbery of 1989 " discussion thread;.Last time it was " How could PR have won - I suggested " Kidnap the percussion judge". IMHO 1988 POTO was far superior , yet 1989 - in spite of holes , fracks , near trainwrecks in the drumline , etc is still mentioned every year as one of the highest scoring of all time?It always amazes me how SCV's orchestration of source music is so close to the original ( especially in this case " Wishing you were somehow here again" ) . Especially following 1987 and 1988 . I think it was payback time. Phantom Regiment 1989 will always be " One for the ages " for me. frankiE

Actual scores (and difference from my prediction) in bold: Well, I did rather better than in previous weeks, with seven of eleven scores guessed within a point, most of them at Reading. I won't be making any predictions for Prelims, but I will be attending that show, my first live look at DCA corps this year.

Well, I also checked either Sky's website or Facebook page last week and noticed their schedule said nothing about Bridgeport. Edit: yes, right at the top of Skyliners' website, it says they had rehearsal today 10am-8pm and tomorrow 9am-5pm and that their next performance is in the parade in Rochester on Friday.

Unless I'm not reading it correctly, it appears that Fusion and Minnesota Brass are tied for the third seed score, at 92.35. I have no idea what the tie-breaker is for this. LOL

Man... that sucks. Hopefully it won't get in the way of them getting the show in.

I'm curious to know what the Madison fans/alumni thought about Scott's show with Spirit this year?

Honestly, I was doing that back in 1998-1992 before Youtube. I'll transfer my VHS tapes one day and post it.

No one steals anyone. Corps can only lose members. sometimes I think we have become a society of victims, rather than looking at " what did i do to lose a member" granted there MIGHT be a few who are lured BUT I have found you can't lose someone, only give them away.

Naaahhhh...my flautist wife would absolutely kill me if I ran a REAL musician off the board!

Travel teams they are recruited for, and choose. Oh, wait, that ruins Brasso's argument.

If they want to continue with 'dark' themes, "A Clockwork Orange" show has great potential. The Glorious Ninth of Ludwig van is absolutely central to the story. If they want to follow the movie version (my absolute favorite movie of all time & very much follows the story in the book), includes music by Purcell, Rossini and Elgar among others. Guard could be outfitted w/ bowlers & codpieces. There is also the opportunity for guard equipment never before seen in DCI.

hahah. nice. I will NOT be reporting live though. I just can't formulate PC ideas and type them out on my phone. But there will be a review. Anyone else going? I'll be the guy in the Madison Jacket, with the Pittsburgh Penguins ball cap.

That's absolutely ridiculous. Do some corps have strong identities? Sure. But doing a show out of a corps' identity is not going to hurt their score in any way. The only reason it would hurt their score would be if the staff weren't capable of teaching the style effectively to the members. General effect is general effect, and the corps that's performing the effect doesn't make a difference (well, other than execution scores). It's all in the show design.

The soft-shell crab, with the crab cake on top was in fact, delicious. i often felt the need to order everything that came fried, and see if I could then walk back to the car. or course, when we won bingo last year, we stayed another hour. so many dollars spent on a 99 cent lantern. #### you bingo caller!!!

"ShoeBox" is such an appropriate choice for donation/fundraiser/recycling. You are to be commended. Everybody wins ! Just for that, I hope the Bucs take............................. high percussion. Go Cabs...... (I truly hope EVERYONE has a great performance tonight !) Joe

if the bucs can't win their own show than the jig is up.

That's a great lineup tonight.... will set the table for Prelims next weekend.

I have friends going to the Bridgeport show, I will see if they can post here (they are not into computers but they sure do know there I-phone)

As far is peeling off our faces Madison just can't do that anymore and expect to score high if anything they will be counted off for that musically. We can play the game and still be the Madison Scouts, but the rules of the games have changed. As I said it in earlier statement we can't hate the players that win, hate the game.

I would like to see them pick some music that is deep mysterious and exciting! I think the perfect suggestion or selections in that manner this past season was what the Bluecoats did with Tilt. I must admit it was some bad ### music!

those kids aren't paying $3000

Yay, another Ohio person!

And if you liked "Down By the Station" you probably dug "Old MacDonald's Farm" over on the Island in 1965. I know I did.

Chuck, that might be the Commanders. I remember seeing them at DCA Finals in 1972, and those uniforms were really bright.

With 70 points for GE and Visual, and only 30 for music, the sheets would probably have to be changed again to give back more importance to music.

2003-2005 weren't half bad looking either. I liked those uniforms but they were short lived

DCI should come into the 21st century, scrap these old judging sheets that have only been altered around the edges since the 70's, and put in place a judging system that rewards communication with the audience. If a show leaves most audiences scratching these heads going " what was THAT all about ", ( even if well executed), lower that score on the sheets. That would be a start, imo.... reward shows that connect to audiences, not just with 4-13 judges in attendance on any given night. And can we dispense once and for all with this false notion that the judges are the best arbiters of what communicates well ? Just look at the GE caption scores from the current judges this season. The scores and placements in many cases in the same shows are all over the lot. So much so thats its obvious that even the judges themselves can't agree with one another on what they are hearing and watching and applying it intelligently to the sheets before them. So if they can't agree, why are the thousands of ticket purchasers any less knowledgeable on which shows communicate the Corps intended themes well, and which didn't ? Corps below the G7 are all naturally confused on which road to take, as one judge is telling them to take one road, and another judge another road. The non G7 Corps confusion on what shows to put out because it seems to me the judges are confused among themselves on what to reward and what not to reward. In such a confused state of judging affairs, my hope is that the Madison Scouts puts out a show next season under a new regime that is visually and musically appealing to most national audiences, and even more importantly, a theme that can be clearly understood by even the typical child or teenager. Just do that, while DCI goes thru the process of replacing their older judges on their last rodeo now with newer, younger judges.

88 was an interesting year. At finals, I was torn between Madison Scouts and the most amazing version ever of Malaguena, and SCV and their fantastic arrangement of POTO. That is one year, I would almost have loved to have seen a tie for first place. 89 version of POTO was even better, in different ways, than the 88 version. I can understand why some people love 88 more than 89 version, but I still like the 89 version a little better. I am not sure playing music from the same show 2 years in a row helped SCV in any way. In fact, I sometimes think it hurts corps to play the same show/similar shows 2 years in a row. It takes an amazing performance to keep the audience and judges into a repeat show, but that is what Vanguard did in 89, and the whole show seemed magical. And, in my opinion, that was what had to happen to sell the show in 89. I don't think anything could have gotten in their way that year at finals, regardless of whether they had played selections from the same musical the year before. And for many years, and to some people still today, that was the show that set the standard for the activity.

yeah that judging was a bit interesting really felt SCV had it in 88 and 89 I personally thought Regiment had it SCV was the 2nd place corps for several years - so maybe that played into it to answer the OP - I really don't think the shows were that identical - different drill, arrangements, guard work etc. Close but not THAT close. JMO

IMO, and this is only my opinion, they would have won in '88 had it not been Madison's anniversary. My second-hand information is that Gail Royer knew it was a great show and intentionally repeated it in a year when there were no extraneous circumstances affecting the outcome. I've always believed what Gail believed.

I will always have a tremendous ammount of respect for the members of the 2007 tour. If memory serves me right the corps was giving serious thought to not fielding a corps that year and the staff was assmbled in the late spring. There were definite struggles with the original visual designers thoughts on the drill at Memorial Day camp, and eventually changes were made early/mid/late season. The staff chemistry was good, but since everyone was a new face, it was definitely not to the level of staff chemistry/cohesion that a corps has with steady staff retention. Be that as it may, the season was a very positive experience in my mind for the members. I believe the 2007 administration treated the members more as adults and less as kids. That is not a slam on the previous administration, that is just my interpretation of what the members told me throughout the season. If I recall, there was a good ammount of member retention for the 2008 year. I'm not really sure how the members dealt with all the changes, but I know that we never had the ammount of changes thrown at us during my marching years. Because of this, I will hold the members of 2007 on a pedastal for carrying the corps through a very uncertain time. In my mind, they are arguably one of the most important corps in Madison's history.

Neither. If you or your family is offended by the cartoon sexy and cartoon violent nature of either of those two shows, you should probably give some real consideration to moving to central Pennsylvania or Ohio and becoming Amish, or going an living in a cave somewhere. It's not my, the corps, or society's responsibility to shelter you or your family from whatever little thing you find "offensive". Now obviously, I don't mean "you" as in N.E. Brigand, but "you" in the general sense. But the point stands. We're not talking Game of Thrones here, and even if we were my answer to you would be "don't freaking watch".

In 2000 and 2001 they started feeling the heat from not having a decent colorguard, visual program, or going after the "total package" GE design that Cavaliers led the way with. Scott Stewart's philosophy on the colorguard and overall design unfortunately was holding them back while other corps moved on. Their brass was still ridiculous, but visual and GE were still pretty dirty. Essentially performing an early 90s show in a new decade. They started dropping to the lower part of finals. 10th & 11th place compared to the 6th place 99 show. In 2002 they dropped out of finals. Getting beat by both Seattle Cascades and Magic of Orlando. Same reasons as before; weak visual and GE. Their drill was exceptionally difficult for a 14th place corps. The rewards for difficulty vs. cleanliness especially hurt them in this season. In 2003 they hired Sal Salas and Mike Cesario to kind of get a grip on the new design road. It worked briefly. New uniforms and all. Scouts placed 8th in 2003 while still playing G Bugles. The show wasn't much of a total package, but visually it was a huge improvement over 2000-2002. Couple this with a stronger cleaner drumline, and things were looking up. It wasn't the same "IN YOUR FACE" Madison as the past, but at least it got back into finals. In 2004 they switched to Bb and began toning down their show. No more in your face stuff. Everything was much more... "symphonic" I guess. Even playing Malaga, a lot of fans felt there wasn't much to cheer for aside from the ending. Madison was placing in finals, but fans still seemed to miss the old Madison. On a bright note, their drumline was really starting to show signs of amazing quality. Pete Weber, a new upcoming drill writer, started showing signs of life for the visual program. 8th place overall. (Edit: Technically there were just new gauntlets this year) 2005 was the best year (competitively) for Madison from the decade. The show was a modern adaptation of Carmen and featured a female solo dancer. Pete Weber's drill was on point, the colorguard was the best it's ever been, and IIRC the drumline placed 4th overall. Screaming solos and all. IMO this was still a fairly tame Madison show and still had a lot of design problems, but again, competitively it placed well. 6th place overall. (New Uniform Jackets/Hats/Gauntlets) 2006 was when the problems of Salas' management began to make themselves known. If I remember correctly there was a lot of staff issues this season causing behind the scenes drama, but someone else might want to chime in on this. I think their lead screaming sop went down mid/early season. And to make matters worse, this was a very very symphonic Madison show with incredibly little old feeling to it. Pete Weber was swapped with Myron Rosander, and the Scouts had an unbelievable beast of a visual program that was of course impossible to clean. Drumline was still incredibly talented with Lee Beddis at the helm, but unfortunately there was no room to make up for the design mishaps. Despite having finals at home in Madison, the Scouts placed 9th overall and were unable to improve on last season's success. They also had new uniforms in a modern adaptation of their 1983-84 uniforms that didn't go over well. A new uniform for every season since Salas came in means a lot of expenses... 2007 was a scary year. There was a huge staff departure, and for good reason; Madison was in huge financial trouble due to the managing of the Salas years. But they were still afloat for now. The goal was no longer "make Finals", and unfortunately more along the lines of "make Finals and... OH we need to stay alive". The 4 tunes chosen for the show had very little "Madison" feel to it, and the corps itself seemed depleted from the shortcomings of staff departure. It was clearly trying to match the new direction of DCI design, but unfortunately didn't have the ammo or design chops to compete. People often claim this was the identity crisis at its worst. An old corps trying to be new. The opening of the show was actually pretty amazing, but aside from that this corps seemed like it just needed to keep its head above water. After an incredibly terrifying series of early season placements, the 2007 corps placed 15th overall. (New Uniforms... AGAIN) 2008 was a decent rebound year. The corps was a bit more stable and started showing signs of life. Madison Alums Dr. Nick Williams and Dann Petersen sort of led the helm while a few BD alums kept the drumline above water. This show was fast and nonstop, but the execution stayed high enough to keep it in the hunt for Finals. In the end things worked out and Madison snuck back into Finals with a 12th place finish. (NEW UNIFORMS AGAIN). Fun fact: Madison is the only corps in DCI history to place everywhere during Finals. At some point in their history, they have placed anywhere from 1st to 12th. 2009 was another scary year. Some very poor design choices. The designed a Latin superhero show... without a villain, making things incredibly hokey. The drumline, especially the bassline, was incredibly talented. IIRC the bassline won I&E that year and had an insane lick during the drum feature. Unfortunately the product held them down the entire season, and the Scouts fell to 15th place once again. (NEW UNIFORMS... kinda. I think it was just a new gigantic red sash that didn't work well) In 2010 Jim Mason was brought on, and from there staff members just kinda came out of the woodwork to provide a huge amount of stability the Scouts were not at all used to. Jim Prime (Garfield, Star, and Blast! arranger), Jon Vanderkolff (Star 93 and Blast!), Thom Hannum, Nick Angelis... things were looking up. In 2010 the Scouts stormed back with an untitled old school show and placed 10th at Finals. From 2011 to present the Scouts have been putting on great shows, but unfortunately cannot crack the top 8. Mason brought stability, but a lot of the design choices just weren't efficient enough to put Madison over the edge. It seemed like every year they'd get jumped by Boston or Blue Knights at some point and never catch up. 2011 - 10th Place, 2012 - 9th place, 2013 - 9th place, 2014 - 11th place. So right now Madison has a bit of stability, but are still looking to push past the top 9 into better competitive territory.

For me, In want them to perform the show that the crowd talks about/sings as they leave the stadium. I always want them to be the crowd favorite. You are correct that in a perfect world, they can achieve that, and place in the upper end of the activity. What I would REALLY like to see, is for them to lead a resurgence in shows that play to the crowd and have big, powerful, WOW moments. Can DCI turn in that direction, who knows. If it can, I would like to see Madison to lead the way.

This fellows put up a lot of classic recordings and mentions Stetson D. Richmond and their Jersey address. Maybe he worked with them, I don't really know, but there's some great recordings from early 60's. In that Miami recording you can hear that outrageous French horn section Sky had in the opening fanfare. Pepe, Buddy Perry, Chuck Ohlmiller, etc.

Wow, I missed out on the beginnings of this thread as I have been in the throes of school meetings and preparations. So, I've spent a good 40 minutes plowing through a lot of great stuff. First, I'm feeling rather honored to be part of the Troopers - not that I wasn't proud before, as the alumni committee president. But the level of discourse in this thread is remarkable, really. Thank you to all participants. There is so much to this thread, and I'm not sure I can address it all without becoming a huge bore. In any case, here goes: 1. Hats: Cowboy hats, to be exact. They have a distinct image associated with them, and if Troopers were to go too far afield it would be difficult to pull off. It's just hard. For some reason I think drum corps fans can see helmets and shakos and Aussies (and plumes galore) and still not associate any particular style with them. But cowboy hats. Well, that's harder. So, there's that to contend with. 2. Uniforms: I like the new direction of the uniforms. Keep that going, IMO. Some say "Bring back the scarves!" Other says "Bring back the buckles and the longer jackets!" And that's cool. I say "do whatever it takes to sell your show and make your mark." That's what Jim Jones did. He did something very different - and it resonated with drum corps fans and performers because of the era it was born in. Which brings me to #3. 3. Era: Culture is an organic being with its own natural evolution. The origins of the Troopers happened at a time when Westerns were a HUGE film hit. TV shows followed suit and stayed relatively appreciated all the way through the entire Little House on the Prairie years. For the most part, that golden era is well played out - and the "hokiness" of those shows is definitely noticeable when viewing them with a more modern context. This is what plays into the "Troopers are stale" mentality. It's ok. I thought that, too - before I was urged to join in May of 1985. That brings me to membership, see #4. 4. Members of Troopers: This is actually pretty exciting to me. Troopers aged out 30 members this past season, many of whom were 3, 4, 5, and 6-year vets. That says something about how Troopers functions as a family and an entity. (Not that Troopers are any better than others at it - just that it bodes well for the future.) From what I've gathered over the last 2 years, our interest and audition rates are fairly high for a corps in our current competitive tier. Yet, as in every corps in this range, people do leave to go elsewhere. This is not new. It was happening in the early 80's and I don't see it changing any time soon. I certainly assume the thought to move on to a "secure" top 12 corps is out there among eligible Troopers. It's the nature of the beast in late August and early September. So that leads me to my next two points: programming and competitive edge. 5. Programming: here is where it gets tricky. I would LOVE to see Troopers try another steampunk show and really just rock it to death. I would love even more for them to bust out of the Americana/Western theme for a show and really do some crazy stuff. But the reality is that a great design very far outside of the traditional "Troopers" ethos will simply fall flat unless the performance talent is retained and improved over time. Yep, there's that tricky thing again: retention. Design goals for competitive success are big business now in DCI. You all know that. With the Van Doren/Smith/Rennick team in place musically, that could work extremely well for Troopers. I seriously don't have much technical knowledge about visual design. I just know that I think it needed a bit more oomph this year. However, it also needed more CLEAN. This leads me to my last point: competitive edge. 6. Competitive Edge: if you think the top of this game has some tricks to their success, you'd be right. Before you read on, this is all coming from someone who is NOT a movement specialist. These are my "layperson's" observations about the movement and color portion of this activity: First, It's not marching any more - it's full body choreography. Visual is the game right now - and while music often creates the visceral tug on the heart strings, movement and color and how it is used in tandem with music creates vast visual richness that pushes buttons on a whole new level. Every move at the top levels of drum corps are fully choreographed, and EVERY MEMBER is extremely well-versed and invested in that movement. "Work smarter, not harder" is real. You have to know how to project full body choreography in something as simple as 8 count warm ups, and you have to buy into its importance and master it at every moment - in rehearsals, in warm ups, in off-season training. This is where I think Troopers need the most improvement in order to gain competitive edge - which leads to retention, which leads to more experimental programming or pushing to new levels. As an example: Colts took a HUGE turn toward improved visual this year, and this nudged them constantly upward - along with their approach to material that was quite unique. As another example, I talked to a kid from BDB who said he has to take a ballet class in order to audition for the A corps. If you haven't figured this out yet from what I've already written: This is the era of full-body movement/choreography - and that isn't going away any time soon. Well, I hope I haven't gone too far. I usually avoid discussing the specifics of Troopers from a design perspective, so I'm a bit out of my public comfort zone. I guess the last thing I would say to anyone looking at Troopers - or any corps, really - as a potential place to march is to talk to people who have been there for at least 2 years. Get a feel for the internal workings. You won't even know what your show concept is until January, at best. But don't close down the idea of being a Trooper based on style alone. I, for one, wasn't expecting to love it as much as I did. I came from a jazz-based little corps with a lot of quirky spunk that folded in 1984, so the Troopers style was nearly a 180 for me. But I LOVED my shows, and I'm proud to say I was, and am, a Trooper. (edited to add: I have no insider information to suggest that Troopers aren't already addressing any of the things I've mentioned. I'm posting from only a fan perspective. I support the corps in the realm of alumni work, and I have zero input or knowledge regarding their design agenda for 2015.)

Contrarily, I'm wondering if I don't have them a bit too low. For them to improve only by 1.25 in three weeks seems unlikely, especially after checking their Scranton performance just now on the Fan Network.

Ok, given your summation of the system it's clear you get it. But your last paragraph confuses me a bit. Why does it matter? Why do we need a lesser value? if the judges got the ranking right, and got the rating right, why does it matter what the sum total was? I'm not arguing with you...I just don't see the problem.

Well done Blue Team! I think that one will be standing for some time! And a huge shout out to Bloo, what an amazing show and a heartwarming moment shared between these two historic corps on the field after scores......a truly great drum corps moment. Congrats to Blue 1 & 2! :thumbup:

Is your circle full of squares?