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I like waffles.

I like pizza, I also like steak. Food is more interesting when there is a variety of quality stuff to eat.

That's a strange way to order waffles.

Last year I was excited about the music but of course all the narration and a patriotic theme was worrisome. It was probably a 4th place show that they performed the s$&t out of. Honestly, I went to a few shows and thought their marching was phenomenal. Throw in extreme competence in all captions, and there's your medalist.

That may be the case, but I tend to get more excited when Cadets go to fast/frenetic type shows with kind of a "dark" theme. I'm a happy person, but I hate happy shows. That explains a lot now lol...

Just curious... since I'm new here, I've been going back through Corpsreps, and Wikipedia (yeah yeah yeah... I dont like it for research either) I noticed the Cabs and Kilts have been in the same garb forever, which is cool and has stood the test of time. But here's question for all of you out there in off-season land. And some homework for all you old farts. Who has any pics of historical uniforms of the rest of DCA, and what do you miss? For example... The Bucs wearing the powder blue thingamabob they had at some point. Did they have a long coat way back? Sunrisers actually wearing orange. Fusion... did they have anything else? Or did they always wear this uni since they're relatively new. Bushies. Whats the history and evolution of the sash? Why is there no neckerchief like your logo? MBI? yeah I dont miss the fedoras though. What about the rest of you? Canes, SunDevils, Skyliners....etc. What bright bold statement did these corps first make? What was the uni they were wearing when they first made finals?

GH said it will be a show similar to 2000's "look what we can do". It will use the 10 thing for sure drill wise but will be about great music, great fast drill and high level performance. I think because it's not bring weighed down by a theme, we'll see a great visual presentation to go with the meaty musical arrangements. Sometimes "themes" can be limiting of expression because a great drill move may be viewed by a judge as " well that was amazing but what does it have to do with your theme abc"?

Perhaps here are some from the past: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7GttwLodlE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5ZuERwCyMA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVQTBiCZY4I (skip to about the 3 minute mark) And of course ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=durOxs3MZ7E (also about the 3 minute mark) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBP5vtz72NA Also, wasn't there a dean of music who did the broadcast one year? I can't remember who or when, but I remember him saying of Phantom "Well, I hope they win!" or some such. Not a dean of journalism, apparently. Does it ring a bell or am I just ringing my own bell?

Now I'm going to show my ignorance by disagreeing with an assumption most of you are making. I'm an outsider, so I'm probably wrong, but I need someone to explain why I'm wrong. Here goes: The idea that shows are "visually driven" today and feature "WGI pacing" is a myth. It just appears that way. What is in fact happening is that the music education people in DCI - notably music caption heads and music judges - have decided (many years ago really) that the faster pace is better educationally, and so arrangers are instructed to arrange brass and percussion with constant change-ups in both technique and mood. The visual people come in later and create drill and visuals to match the "music teacher pacing" of the arrangements, then they get blamed on DCP for the pacing. This is not to say that visual design people don't sit in on early meetings and throw out ideas for drill, effects and so on, but that by itself wouldn't force arrangers to pace things a certain way UNLESS the visual designers actually chart some kind of bar-by-bar description of the visuals before arrangement is done. Are you guys saying that's the norm today? Phantom is playing at least six pieces in 10-11.5 minutes this summer. Were those pieces chosen by the visual designer? I think music people still make music choices for drum corps. Visual designers are following along with pacing that matches the music, that's all. I also think its easier to blame visual people with "problems in DCI" than to lay the blame at the feet of music teachers, who have much more gravitas in the activity and whose decisions are much harder to dismiss. Now, am I wrong about this? If so, why?

1986 Blue Devils 1987 SCV 1987 Garfield Cadets 2004 Blue Devils 1991 Crossmen 1975 SCV 2009 Crown 1993 Phantom Regiment 2005 Phantom Regiment 1989 Suncoast Sound

Hello everyone! Our uniforms for this winter fell through. We are in serious need of uniforms on a really tight time constraint (February 14th is our next show). If you or you know of any group that is selling lyrical style dresses (preferably gray but doesn't have to be) can you please have them email me at cmbeshaw@gmail.com Thank you so much in advance!

This mostly sums it up for me. Spot on! Keep in mind, we still get some gems in drum corps from a standpoint of music. Also, to be fair, part of the problem is the sheer difficulty in syncing music, drill, visual ideas, staging, and thematic progression into ONE cohesive show. This isn't easy stuff. If you listen to the Cadets 2010 show music in a stand-still performance you would love it. And even on the field I loved it. Great music. But when combined with drill, staging, visual concepts, thematic ideas, well...ultimately it was a good show but didn't quite hit the level they had wanted. On the flip side, if you listened to the Cavaliers 2006 show in a stand-still you would love how the corps performed, but you would have questions about the abrupt and contemporary-style of phrasing and motifs. Certainly not traditional. Yet, when it was married with visual and theme it was off-the-charts good. Star 1993 was somewhat like this, but the phrasing was impeccable, just not exactly what the average fan wants to hear. BUT...there is a clear difference between my examples of the Cavaliers and Star (above), to what some other corps have tried. In the worst cases of music construction we've heard too many bops, chops, bleeps, whole-note builds while running, then the ultimate park and POWER CHORD! YUK. The key to me has been a loss of melodic line and thematic development. There is a limit to each show, and perhaps corps should consider less material with better development. When music develops well it can absolutely bring a person to an emotional high. Think Phantom Regiment at their finest. Think SCV's "Les Miserables" show, or their "Appalachian Spring" show of 2009. Think Cadets "West Side Story" or "Angels & Demons," and think Madison's ability to milk the crowd when at their best. Music alone can do this. But the trick has always been to combine that music with drill, staging, visual concepts, and overall show theme that aids the musical passion. The competitive rules (judging sheets) ultimately govern and control a lot of what is happening. As long as a corps can get away with poor music construction, poor development, poor phrasing -- just because it happens to sync well with visual -- then it is unlikely the arranging styles will change.

Wow, Someone who arranges in DCI pretty much confirms what I've been saying about WGI's influence on DCI here for a long while, but that so many have dismissed as being silly. So there you have it from someone more respected than me.... I totally agree with what Chucks saying here and I have always respected Chuck's opinion. I wish there was a way for a happy medium, where music can drive high scores along side the chop-n-bop shows. I mean, the idea is for these corps to be unique, right? Also, it seems there IS a rubric for scores. Sounding like my grad school experience.... Interesting to hear for sure!

Yes, but this does not sound like a modern show (i.e. a chop-n-bop highlight reel of a show). This is sounding more like an old-school show musically. The typical modern DCI show does not let musical ideas develop. This may be a show in today's modern age, but it is not sounding like a typical DCI show as of late.I thank Cadets for this and can't wait to see the finished product!

If it weren't for the pulse I'd never keep up. This piece shifts from 4/4 to 3/4 to 5/4 and back several times. And the splits aren't the really impressive parts - it's the writing! Brichtimp is curious how the percussion matches the horn book and, I can tell you for sure, that drum book matches the horn book perfectly. If they can clean it... But, oh my, what a book.... EDIT: oh, and I should say what the book ISN'T. Not a lot of rim-shots or gratuitous slams for effect as well as what it is: GREAT dynamic styling (watch for the sticks to move to the edge of the drum head, writing as difficult in piano passages as at forte, AMAZING full height (stick beads almost vertical; it takes more time for the stick to reach the head so more power on the downstroke is necessary to stay in time), diddles and drags (single grace notes and double grace notes [a "ruff" in drum-speak) at full tempo in the middle of sixteenth-note triplets, and exactly similar stick heights along with full feet at 180. I'm telling you, as an old drummer with a young hotshot kid - this is an amazing drum book.

One of the reasons when there was a topic about changing the point system. Give some more points to music was a suggestion. But, with so many artsy instructors, judges, corps mgmt., etc. the odds of it happening are very slim.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3a4v1TWUNo&feature=em-share_video_user The one who gets the most out of the musicians, audience and leads both on and off the field. Still going with Daniel Veerhusen - 1980 Madison Scouts. In the video above, no one is going to argue that we're seeing classic wind ensemble class conducting. Few, however, would argue that he's not getting the most out of the musicians. Enjoy, Chuck

Being in Utah, I've been able to see a bit of what the Battalion has been doing. They had a booth at every single marching band competition in Utah. They're definitely for real. Their first "experience" camp had great turnout and as I understand was quite successful for a startup corps.

To be fair, some of these corps really have taken some very good steps to ensure stability, too. Because some friends of mine are involved, I've been following the development of The Battalion out of Provo. They've been in existence for a while now, holding fundraisers and advertising/recruiting like mad. This winter they started hosting camps, with pretty good turnouts. All of this, and they aren't planning to apply for membership until next year, and then with a very limited tour. Planning things out years in advance, taking baby steps, and not moving on until the foundations are secure (aka good business!) If more startups did this, I think we would see a much higher survival rate in Open Class, and maybe even a higher rate of corps advancing to World Class status.

My vote is for latin jazz. No one else is doing it & the crowd will eat it up.

You know, even though it's just a bunch hopeful speculation, a Part Tres of A Drum Corps Fan's Dream would actually be a great idea on the design team's part. Just look at the facts. It will be 19 years since Part Dos this summer, and 20 years since Part Uno. The shows are titled in a way that allows multiple parts, so a Part Tres wouldn't be considered a rehash of old stuff(so long as the design team keeps things fresh and introduces new ideas rather than defaulting to generic Spanish Phrygian Mode jams). Plus, Madison is in need of a revival of its image and the way younger audiences view them. A ########, balls to the wall, unforgettable show that reflects Madison's old identity while bringing new things to the table would definitely spark new interest in them. Just some thoughts I had. I'm sure whatever this new design team chooses to do will be awesome anyways.

Okay. Still not sure why they chose the hybrid technique. It hasn't really been done since the 80s, so maybe they wanted the throw-back. Wouldn't mind seeing them go for a full straight-leg with the white pants. Or at least trim down the pants to a more form-fitting look with the bent knee.

Phantom's drill in 2010 was quite hard. One thing though, it was one example in the past several years where very little drill changed from the beginning of the season until the end and this coming after 2009 where so much changed. Myron is brilliant. He's also a really nice person.

Madison's guard alumni have been amongst some of the most generous in the activity assisting their successors with sponsorships and on tour aid. I know from first hand experience of some of my students finally able to march DCI (and guard) because of this generousity. Would that those who benefitted would continue to be as generous in payment of what they received.

well not to mention that being a performer -- even a very good performer -- has little to do with being a great teacher.

Guard staffs have also become very specialized . BITD we were a staff of maybe 1 or 2 and good at it or not we had to learn EVERYTHING. This IMO is a reason you still see some of us and some big names in the activity still around. Today most new staff will just do rifle, or flag or sabre or dance or stretches or clean all different things etc etc etc. BITD you did it all ! It's also another reason when some of these bands hire a young new person to head their guard program , who marched in some big top 5 corps they get all excited only to find out it didn't work in many cases , often a diaster. It didnt work because many bands cant hire 20 people to do 1 section and expect the new hire to be able to do it all. oops.........back to Madison

None of them. I want the last note to be as loud as possible.

None. Soft endings suck.

You like what you like, which is fine. That has nothing to do with your general comment, which IMO is absolutely UNtrue. I like a wide variety of corps and shows, and placement has zero to do with it. BK has been on my own favorite list for a few years....Crown as well, going back a dozen years or so, with some notable exceptions. I like different corps every year, if they present a show that clicks with me...like this year's Bluecoats. I don't like or dislike a corps just because of their name...or where they place. Scouts have had some very good shows, and some that were not on my favorite list. Ditto Cadets, BD, etc. This is the first year BD has been on my own top list in over a dozen years, for instance.

You may want to take it BUT the kid thats paying 3 grand plus may not want to nor other Scouts Fans. Look you are certainly entitled to your opinion as well as your likes ad dislikes, No argument there but to ignore the importance of the competition aspect of this activity ( something in the roots of drum corps ) would be IMO a selfish and a non supportive behavior of the Scouts as well as the activity. Scouts can not stay in 12th and maintain that, few corps can. There will always be someone knocking at that door. Eventually, it would be very possible Scouts would just drift away, which IMO is way more not acceptable than a synth, or any silly narration or a soft ending to a show. Just my opinion.

You made a generic statement that says this: "Funny how "competitively relevant" and "crowd pleasing" seem to be mutually exclusive ideas today. Okay, not funny. Sad." THAT is not a Scout-specfic comment, hence my own non-Scout-specific comment. Your statement is just so NOT true. Lots of shows by "competitively relevant" corps in many seasons are also "crowd pleasing".

This is the biggest over-generalization I've heard in a long time. Take a look at 2008 Phantom, any recent Crown, 2014 BD, Cadet's Angels and Demons show (can't remember the year) and about 100 other recently competitively successful and crowd pleasing shows for proof. Competitively relevant and crowd-pleasing appear, based on reading these MEN OF MADISON threads, to be two separate things in here.

I was citing that as one of the more effective uses of body movement, not that they are the only ones to have done it. Cavies circa the early-mid '00s would fall into that category too. But the broader point you make echoes the one I was making as well. In the past, the body movement was a part of the show and programmed to help sell the show or tell the story. Like you said, nowadays, it's usually just thrown in without regard to how it fits or how it flows. It's almost become like a compulsory in figure skating or something."Ok people...8 counts of standing still here in the ballad, so let's have you gyrate your hips counterclockwise for the first four counts and then bend your right knee and kick your right heel out for the final 4 counts." lol It's just....just so ridiculous.

I wouldn't mind the body movement as much if it actually matched the music. Most of the time it seems like the designers are like "Oh look, an 8 count hold in the brass, we can put something here for GE points". The choreography is just tacked on for something to do, rather than something that fits the music. I get a visual cue, but no musical synergy to go along with it, and my brain is confused. And it's not like body movement is some newfangled innovative thing either. I mean, heck, Bridgemen did the shuffle in the late 70s and Madison had a decent amount of body movement in their 83 & 84 shows (and beyond). And those were waay before anything Star did in 93. It always confuses me how much credit people give to that Star 93 show in terms of "body movement!" when drum corps were already doing stuff like that literally a decade prior. Star had like 2 sections of the entire show that lasted less than a minute, yet they get all the credit?

This is probably the thing I absolutely hate the most about current DCI shows. The whole concept of "simultaneous demand" means we all have to watch hornlines play difficult passages while doing calisthenics. It usually looks so stupid that it's a facepalm moment for me every time. 1993 Star showed how you can do body movement and have it actually be effective. Unfortunately, no one else has seemed to figure it out.

Maybe you should take it down a few notches. I don't think there's a conspiracy against the Scouts. I wish they were scoring higher as well but dude..... You are just inviting the usual suspects to come in this thread and bash the crap out of you by posting stuff like this.

I am a huge Madison fan. The Scouts are the sole reason I found, follow, and basically married myself into this activity two decades ago. That said, this year's design is an obvious train wreck. IF these kids were given a better vehicle to drive, the talent would propel them much higher into the DCI ranks. But this one is completely on the staff right now, especially Jim Mason. One has to wonder if he has surpassed his prime in this activity, as the past few years the competitive direction of this corps has seemed to skew in an undesired direction. We all know Jim is a legend in this activity, but something is awry with the direction right now, and I don't think I'm the only one who senses this. I also realize Madison typically doesn't give two ##### about where they place as long as the crowd is behind them, but this team promised the best of both worlds when they entered into this rebuilding project. And so far, all things considered, they haven't gotten the job done. I believe Komnick and Peterson have to realize this at some point and make some changes, hopefully finding a mutually beneficial agreement for the future direction of this corps. Placing no higher than 9th for what appears to be the 9th straight year now (I realize Mason only landed here in 2010), it just has to be affecting their ability to restock the shelves each year with talent that might be heading off to other places like Bluecoats, Cadets, or wherever else. I wish them the best of luck. But for the love of all that is holy, change that ending at the very least. I never ever thought I would consider Madison the hot dog corps in my lifetime (only Relampago got me close to that point...) but this year it is pretty much right there for me.

This might be the most pathetic piece of homerism crap I've ever read on DCP. Madison blew the opportunity to put a great show on the field this year, and their competition is cleaning more difficult, better designed shows. DCI doesn't owe Madison anything and neither do the judges. Deal with it.

Because the most points on the current DCI judging sheets arn't found in the Percussion sections any longer. They are primarily found in the Guard and in the Visual side. Crown won themselves a DCI Title last season with a 6th place percussion section. No way that happens if they had a 6th place Guard or a 6th place Visual caption. This year, Crown has an improved drumline and their brass line is still stellar. Why then are they in approx. 3rd or 4th place here in early July ? Look at their Visual and Guard scores.. If Percussion was where Corps could get their most points, then we'd see larger Percussion sections over the years, not larger Guards.

I marched with the Scouts. I love the corps. I love the Jazz music & the traditional approach, but the beginning & end of this years Scouts show is weak, the visual design & color guard are weak, & there just arent any "wow" moments in the show. The new ending is awful & none of the songs are played long enough to do the original scores justice & they never seem to develop. This should have been a great show. Instead it is a disjointed collection of musical snippets from an over-zealous arranger/designer. What R.W. Smith has done with these arrrangements is a travesty. I hate that my favorite drum corps is in a battle for a 9-12 spot in finals, but that is where the Scouts are. Lastly, as a Drummer, I really miss the days of marching 12 snares & 6 tenors. Why have the drum lines got smaller while the corps are now larger?

The Cavaliers are looking for A Class truck drivers and B Class bus drivers for the 2014 summer tour. These are paid positions. Clean driving records required. Interested drivers can contact me at dflynn@cavaliers.org or 224-365-9715. Thanks, Dave Flynn

It comes down to this.... The OP asked if it can be worked since school started on Aug 1. I cannot speak to that County or it's school, but my school admin, teachers and band directors have worked with several students to be able to march drum corps and esp to miss time at the end of the school year. This thread is not about breaking contracts or being sued, it's about HS students being able to work with schools to have the wonderful opportunities that Drum Corps presents

I love the way this thread has gone off the rails (er, evolved) Wasn't this all about having time for corps with a high school schedule? I'm going to go back to the high school frame of reference for a minute and the all important college application: Admission depts. look at the depth and breadth of a student's extra curriculars, they want to see involved kids. Frankly, you'd think you need to cure cancer in your junior year to garner an admission from some schools. College is competitive, life is competitive. I know plenty of kids who manage corps, band, sports, acadec, scouts, and countless other activities. They are valedictorians, class leaders, community service organization members. They find a way to do all of these things without diluting them. I don't think many of these youth organizations take a "your time is ours - all or nothing" stance. They recognize that today's youth are pulled in a variety of directions. I tell ya, it's a far cry from my lazy misspent childhood. I'm hopeful for tomorrow when I see some of these kids, I certainly don't see a sense of "me first" entitlement. I see kids learning values, leadership, time management, competition, sportsmanship. These are students I would want to admit - these are future adults I would want to employ. (of course, these are the same kids doing sometimes x-rated and usually crude things on tour buses - ahhh to be young again)

Wow it's selfish to want to see kids be more well rounded? It's selfish to work hard at more than one thing? I guess I'm a selfish guy then. Guilty as charged

And yet, many corporations not only allow...but encourage their employees to take time off from their jobs to participate in the Olympics. Why do you think they do that? Could it be that they see some potential benefit? Schools and universities are, by and large, not dumb.

No.... U are mixing this up. Plenty of people on Staff do this and again the word is- trust. While gone the staff in place take care of the students and prepare them. Staff members go home for various reasons during the summer including school activities but most districts are very understanding. Again being on a staff of a great drum corps will only serve to give ideas to further what you're doing in the classroom.... You know what doing multiple activities teaches Stu? It teaches students to manage their time. Most of us had to Work and go to College at the same time. You learn how to communicate better and be more structured with more on your plate. If your in college should u quit band to concentrate on your studies? College bands are made up of large part non music majors. In teaching, mNy of us judge/Teach Master Classes or lessons, or have a second job. All the while many Are married with families. Sharing time? Doing multiple things at one time? You bet. Plus let's not forget that employers and Universities want the best of the best. You don't earn respect by lessening your resume! Life is not about Choice of only one thing, it's about compromise and learning how to succeed through adversity. Sounds an awful lot like what marching band and corps offer.... Wes P

Believe me, the characterization you apply to our youth does NOT describe my son. I am sincerely glad his University doesn't have your hateful attitude and that they are willing to work with my son. Both my son and the University benefit from their cooperation.

It's rare but it happens. I remember one year when the Cavies were missing a tenor player before finals. The kid had to go to his college band camp so he wouldn't lose his scholarship. He returned finals week and competed to end the season. Also, you are SO wrong. A choice doesn't have to be made. Both can be done with a little effort, and for the most part a kid coming off corps is a benifit to the band.

Band directors that get ###### that kids miss their summer rehearsals/band camp because they are marching drum corps need to park their egos and get over themselves.