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When we were 15, we thought we had life all figured out. But when we were 30, we knew that this wasn’t the case.

What does the sex of the other party matter? You know, if I were you, I'd probably stop posting about this. There is no legal consent at 15. The other party committed a felony. That's all it is, no matter how fondly you remember the experience.

If you can't fair scores from 'em, hire 'em.

What difference does it make that it was 2 of the same gender? And if someone is upset and you’re not, then they are triggered?

I think this is the most true form of McDuffy’s. A drum corps classic.

I didn’t understand there was nuance when talking about an adult having sex with a minor. 🤷‍♂️

It can be a tough crowd here sometimes. I did not take your story as a "flex" either.

Well, not all of us figured it out by age 30 apparently. Based on the post we are discussing

I don’t know about triggered. To me, more like…disgusted. Disturbed. Over the passage of decades since this happened (minor and not minor “relations” which you thought was cool at the time - correct me if I’m wrong, you deleted the post so I am going by memory) your thoughts about the appropriateness of this hasn’t changed? That’s what I find disturbing. Again though I could be misremembering your post so if I am…sorry.

Agreed, if someone really had the plan and means to start a corps, they're better off creating their own brand for these exact reasons.

Same with the Cadets guard in the late 90's. When she was judging, we knew we were 2nd behind BD while every other judge had us 1st, always. One regional in 98 she placed us 5th and behind the Glassmen, which she awarded best guard to - I remember at retreat SCV members looking over at us like WTF just happened. We always thought April had ###### her off at some point by yelling at her... who knows. If I'm not mistaken, she was the first to score BD guard, with ticks, drops, etc. perfect 10's at finals. My point is there has always been bias with her judging.

She has a long, long, loooong history of scoring Phantom's guard below both other corps and what other judges would do in the same season. So much so that there has been public discussions (not from the corps, but from fans) about judging panel lineups at finals directly affecting their placement over the years. Mike

Loved the show right there & right then. That ballad!

I think your opinion here is very valid and I imagine this is how many Cadets alumni and many volunteers feel. This is probably how they should feel. My heart says "NO no no no, I don't want to lose this historic corps!" But my head says it was time for Garfield/The Cadets to be put to rest. Just too many lawsuits, too many mistakes, too many victims. There were likely going to be more lawsuits. The damage by a director, a puppet board, and perhaps a few others was too much for too long. Too many people were harmed by the supposed "adults" in the room. Too many victims...and those victims deserve praise for coming forward and they deserve justice and help. If that means the corps goes away then so be it. As others have said it is complicated because we will miss the shows and all the hard work of the marchers and volunteers and the teachers who did things the right way. We will miss the history. But it was time. Pains me to say it...but it was time. The "adults" in the room had chance after chance and chance to make things right. The SHIP SUNK!!! Too many leaks and a few torpedo shots. In the end the damage from 1982-2017 was too much.

https://www.dci.org/news/drum-corps-international-and-walmart-health-collaboration-provides-telehealth-services-to-corps

It wasn't just the tic that changed....it was also judged timing. Starting in 1984, shows were judged in their entirety....no more saving the riskiest stuff for after the 11:30 mark. No more dropping a rifle and not having it affect the score (80 BD). No more ensemble tear of the gods not affecting the score (82 SCV) Now judging from beginning to end. This also led to the end of every corps repeating large chunks of the prior year (much easier to clean when you already knew it)...83 BD was 3/5th of the 82 show....and the repeated charts were in the same places. 84 was the first year BD did not repeat at least one chart from the prior year (not counting the NY Fantasy tag ending). By 88 -- I think -- you rarely saw corps repeating charts in successive years as a matter of course.

Heck, I’m 62 & still don’t know what I want to do when I grow up.

That is so true. The reason I rarely come on the DCP forum is because the people leaving comments are rarely kind. They do not understand nuance. I normally just come on DCP forums to giggle at the BD haters.

Beautifully done and with the props at finals it was an amazing moment!

Surprised no one has waded in to address the specific questions. Yes. It started with the brass caption in 1982 and 1983, then percussion and visual followed in 1984. I would expect a range of opinions on this... but to compile all that I have heard from testimony of the people involved, there were frustrations with the various limitations imposed on caption judges that pre-dated the innovations to which you refer. For instance, prior to the 1970s, the captions for bugles, drums and M&M were judged entirely in teardown mode. Caption judges assessed "execution", looking for errors and almost entirely limited to deducting the same fraction of a point for each error. There was little they could do to address the three qualitative aspects of errors - tolerance (the dividing line between error and successful execution), severity (how bad/obvious is the error), and duration (how long does the error persist, and how do performers recover). Execution judges also could not consider the difficulty of what was being performed - only whether they perceived errors. Results from one show to another could vary quite a bit from individual judges having different levels of tolerance to error. Several changes were made during the 1970s to start addressing these concerns, but they primarily added "analysis", more judges to give credit for what was being performed. Percussion also had a "degree of excellence" subcaption at one point. But "execution" judging still had the same limitations. The change from teardown to buildup enabled the "execution" judge to become a "performance" judge, free to make and quantify all the subjective assessments alluded to above. All that said, I think there was another change that was at least equally important. Prior to the 1970s, there was very little communication from judges to corps staffs. This underwent a massive transformation, with post-show critiques and recorded commentary becoming standard practice by the 1980s. I prefer to call it "free-form" drill, as asymmetry was not a new thing at all. Drills were only symmetric for a brief period in the 1970s. Prior to that, the rules required you to start on one goal line and finish on the other.

Wait. I thought she was biased against the Scouts. Haha everyone has a beef with her.

Any discussions on this topic that I've been party to around Saktig, May, Sully or Cadets alumni resulted basically like this: The 1984 show was written based on tick system rules. Full stop. I'm not sure who pushed for the rules/judging changes that resulted in the buildup system of 1984, but the design of the show had nothing to do with it. Zingali, Twiggs, Prime were writing what they wanted to write. They were figuring out how to teach it on the fly. Visually, I often heard from Sully that they would say, "Get from here to there ...... so and so looks great ...everyone do it that way." Dot systems took time to figure out. Crab step took time to figure out. Dot books took time to figure out. But not much time. Reshape, Recurve, Subsets ... all were hands on and took many hours on the field to "figure it out". Once it worked .... always do it that way ... now figure out how to get it in your dot book. This was still happening at Cadets well into the 90's until Saktig took over and began charting the subsets. I also hope you check into the many many changes to the sheets and number of judges/captions over the years. The buildup system from 84 changed in 88 .. and many times after that. Even during the tick system there was a specific year when there was a Build Up sub-caption (not sure the name of it) .. this is before my time so I don't know the details ... but it was points awarded rather than taken away. This leads me to believe that the judging system was constantly evolving toward a total build up system. I hope this helps a bit. Best of luck with your research.

Well they better be recent - because the window of waived statutes of limitations is closed I believe.

literally the name has zero value because if you own it, and new claims were to come up, guess who has to deal with it? it's damaged goods. there's far more negative to trying again then to actually try again.

I agree many feel that way for sure , maybe most BUT will also say , ( as I Said from the beginning years ago ) SOME, not all but some who got this exposed, were the very same who kissed the butt of GH for years and only when they were no longer needed ( as he did with many ) only then they exposed it. I find IMO those are just as responsible. There are many still out there claiming to be the arbitrator's of good with other corps who may have known and those who claimed , some after decades being around this person, that they knew nothing...hmmmmmmmm

Perhaps those alum/community members that want to revive it could consider the wishes of the survivors first?

What would be the point? Anyone attempting to say that their organization shares any DNA (or tries to claim they share that DNA) will have a massive target on their backs from the day they announce. Nothing called "Cadets", nothing referencing the Garfield/BergenCounty/YEA/CAE Cadets, no uniform designed to mimic the Cadets traditional uniform, no efforts of any kind to draw a connection between the "new" corps and The Cadets would be considered safe, and you'd likely find no individuals who know anything who'd be willing to serve as Board members for a corps that is "The Cadets But Not The Cadets." Consummatum est. May their memory be a blessing.

How did it take until AD 2024 for Scott Boerma to be inducted?

There's no chance anyone would be silly enough to touch anything Cadets related for the foreseeable future. The brand is dead. Their members have hopefully all found new homes for this season. What was the most likely conclusion 6 years ago when the GH stories started breaking has come to pass, despite the best efforts of the CAE org. Life goes on.

Great question. I’m looking forward to the responses. Don’t forget about the groundbreaking work he did with Star and Blue Knights!

Well, I know it wasn't me. I can still swing dance and two-step like a GenZer.

She was guard instructor when I was in Norwood Park in 72 and 73. She was Marie Kas back then. Her brother Frank was corps director. I was in the brassline so I didn’t have much contact with her. I was 14 when she was teaching. I personally wouldn’t want any of this hassle now or especially not in my 70’s. God bless her, though. She always seemed very nice to me.

With all due respect to Ms. Czapinski , kudos! But how do you bring your experiences to today’s reality? Just asking for a bunch of friends on DCP.

Time to change WC member age eligibility to 18-23. Has this been discussed?

DCI already has policies in place for member corps, and has acted to suspend an organization once allegations of abuse were presented to them (SOA in 2022). What, specifically would you consider "a demonstration of public leadership" that would be more meaningful than the programs already in place that comply with SafeSport guides for promoting member safety? The complaint that brought this forward was from 1982, not 2022. Unless you're angry for DCI not retroactively doing something 40 years ago about a situation that they had no idea even existed, not sure what you're looking for. And yes, since they are still named as a party in the complaint - the last one still alive - it would be suicidally stupid for them to say anything. Let it get to court (if it's not dismissed before then), and let the process play out. If you have specific concerns about specific corps who are courting specific dangers, there are multiple resources at your fingertips to report your concerns. If you want copies of each corps' member safety policies and member handbooks, you can always pick up the phone and call their offices to request copies or download them directly online.

I appreciate the kind words and recollections of, now, a decade or longer ago. My, time flies even as things in drum corps look pretty much the same. I always thought it would be fun and interesting to do a 10-yr follow up to see if any 990s showed a significant difference but now I think I'll let someone else take that ball. I know a few that would differ greatly: SCV and Cadets being among the most-easy to guess. I've generally been satisfied checking in to the activity a few times a year just to see if anything worthwhile strikes me, instead of a daily immersion into all-things-drum corps. I appreciate the fair-travel wishes but mine's actually centered on little turbulence and landing safely. When I'm in "home port" I'll likely stop by to read some of my favorite posters here.

Apologies - this isn't really aimed at you, but it absolutely did not come out of nowhere. There were literal decades of people alleging abuse, but everyone continued this weird social media "can't name names or provide details, or I might get sued" code of conduct. I remember reading this stuff on RAMD, pre DCP. The allegation was literally sent to DCI, who essentially responded with "well, what do you want us to do about it?" It was sent to the Board, (IIRC), who took the settlement request as a threat. The abuse was systemic and pervasive, and it absolutely defies belief that no other single adult, including some that are very much mandated reporters, ever saw a thing until it became national news. The only reason this all didn't happen sooner was because these women were almost all convinced that they didn't want to "hurt the organization" at the expense of their own welfare. Mike

I don't think they necessarily have to bring back the drum corps nuts, as they now have different drum corps nuts. The activity is, and should be regardless of our personal preference, geared towards what the marching members want. Today's teens and early 20's members don't want to do old style shows, they want to do what is done today. And based on the attendance at shows each year which keep increasing, it's working. As for everything in your first paragraph, different story all together. I think the "survival" of this activity depends largely on $$$$$$. And moreso, corps able to support taking a corps on the road each summer. I know some of this may be off the original topic, just replying to some comments in this post. Like you Keith, I love what the performers do today. Looking back even after typing this, I think I agree with everything you say, just confused on the bring back the drum corps nuts part. There is a huge fan base, and social media is making things more accessable for the younger generation.

Hopefully you will see this before you sign off, but I want to thank you for all the 990 analysis some years back. You pointed a bunch of us the right direction on how to follow the money. I wish you fair winds and following seas.

while recording for DCAF tonight, an alum was on, and said in this situation it was like a loved one with a terminal disease...we knew in the fall it was coming, we just didn't know when. but when it happened it hurt a lot. i've paraphrased, but i got the spirit of the statement. and for as snarky as we can be at DCAF, this one wasn't super snarky.

You have made a profound observation, one that goes to the core of why this is so disturbing and awful, even as the abuse on its own is a tragedy.

I see comparisons to a tragic Shakespearean figure or a Greek tragedy to be glamorizing. Maybe that’s just me. I see a snake oil salesman who finally got caught.

Let’s not over glamorize Hopkins. He ran a summer marching band. Brought in top talent who designed championship shows for him. Drove them away. Tanked the band. Assaulted girls and was convicted. Now he sets up tee times for you. A dickish loser with a psychopathic personality. Not worth anybody’s time of day.

It seems to be the opposite out here in California. When we get Midwest/East Coast corps come out here, we treat them like rock stars as we are so appreciative that they made the trip out west.

As a marching member of the 1985 Phantom Regiment - it is always nice to hear good things about this show. I was a rookie as were many, many people that year. The show WAS very hard and I remember some judge telling us at our first show in Harvard, IL that we were going to be in for a long season! We had many problems (as do most corps, I am sure) throughout the season including many bus breakdowns and lack of staff on tour. We never gave up, though and we even wanted to give up our free days on tour so that we could practice (our staff MADE us have free days). By finals week - we were really hoping to make the top five (and the broadcast). There were drill moves that had never worked all season that were finally coming together that last week! John Brazale was around that last week and could not believe his difficult drill was actually - finally - being performed!! I still think the whole Berloiz show was great - and I would not mind seeing it done again in Rockford!! Rex Rukavina PR Soprano '85

I have loved everything the Regiment has ever done. Maybe it's because by the time I was in 7th grade, I was listening to classical music. I don't care what position the Phantom Regiment takes, they're always the best in my book. I, too, saw the Regiment in June that year, just before I went to England to instruct over there for awhile. I thought, "Yipes, what happened?" Thankfully, they wowed me at DCI that year--not the cleanest Regiment I had ever seen, but one of the most improved during a season. And that's what a corps needs to do--improve. I think if they had had one or two more weeks, they would have been much higher in the placings, but then, that's true for many. Anyway, yes, I loved the show, I love Berlioz, and I still love the Phantom Regiment. Bob Blomberg Geneseo Knights, '79-'83 Phantom Regiment Support Staff, '86-'00 Kilties, '01-'02 Student (again), '02-??

Rightfully so. Don’t forget your comment about VK’s cymbal line that you eventually apologized for.

yup

i wanted to like them, but what they offered didn't allow it. they were good, but i'm not digging in the archives to watch or listen to them again