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So you are speaking in binary. There are 10 kinds of people. Those who understand binary and those who don't.

Agreed. And, I shouldn't have said "bad" arranging, he's a quality arranger, just not in the style of Wren (and later Shaw), the PR style.

You are a brave soul.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9XtJSHKwTI

I think this is why his voicing at Regiment seems incomplete. There's something missing. The layers and power just aren't there.

This all applies not jjust to universities but to not-for-profits of all stripes. For instance, this article about the Cleveland Orchestra reports than in 2013 they had an operating budget of $48 million and their endowment was at $150 million. A general guideline for non-profits is that the endowment, upon which they draw down 5% of the value annually (so the Orchestra would move $7.5 million per year into operating), should be two to three times the size of the annual budget, so they're right on target. Can you imagine if DCI had a $25 million endowment that they could count on to provide them with $1.25 million in income each year?

"...bad arranging." That's my gripe.

Respectfully disagree. They sounded quite amazing this past season. They still sound like Phantom. Not as powerful no, but I attribute much of that to bad arranging.

But they aren't playing the powerful classical musical arrangements "they do best." They sound like every other corps attempting to perform classical music. Their unique rich, dark, soulful sound is virtually non-existent today.

Maybe the sheet of paper in their pocket with the scores was out of sequence. Hmmm.

As many of you already know back in 1991 a group of former members of the famed Mighty St. Joe's Junior Corps, Batavia NY, along with several other drum corps nuts got together and started Mighty St. Joe's Alumni Drum & Bugle Corps. Their goal was to perform on a non-competitive basis and keep the "good, old times" of drum corps alive. Today, as 2015 arrives, the corps is proudly preparing for it's 25th consecutive year. Over the years MSJ has experienced and survived the true test of time. Even though over 300 drum corps' fanatics have come and gone through the corps' swinging doors many are still working hard at keeping this activity alive and well in WNY. If any of you out there still have the desire to test your chops, play an indoor/outdoor concert to thousands of appreciative fans, march a parade and see all the smiles or just be involved with one of the few real drum corps' experiences left in the Rochester/WNY area visit us on the web at www.mightystjoes.com and/or come out to Leroy NY for a rehearsal soon. You certainly won't regret it! Help keep the memories alive, be a part of this great drum and bugle corps today... openings in all sections!

You are so right . those also who chose to ignore the changing times, the kid they served, etc etc is exactly how so many corps disappeared. I have taught thousands over the years and continue to and although there are always some issues that no matter what day and age come back over and over it is not the same member nor time we live in, totally different. You can not ignore that the world isn't quite different, which also includes how a corps has to survive today, GONE are the CYOs, church basements for rehearsal, free areas to learn drill etc etc etc.

Absolutely agree. Shaw and Wren were great for Regiment, and it's difficult for Hill to fit in with them. I know Hill is amazing, but I enjoy his marching band work much more than his corps work. Hill knows how to write for woodwinds and brass very well, and I tend to enjoy that more from him.

If you don't see more entertainment options available as an outlet for both participation and observation, you are hiding under the proverbial rock. Seriously - you cannot think that what was available BITD even comes close to comparing to today. And while I have heard of the family gathering around the radio for FDR's fireside chats, I guaranty you that kids were dying to get to drum corps rehearsal to get away from what they viewed as lame, or whatever the term was back then. Now, they can go up to their room, to watch their tv, play on their laptop, IPad, tablet and phone, all at the same time. There is no need to sit in the same room with mom and dad for entertainment. There is no need to have to leave your home for entertainment. And that right there is the huge issue that you are choosing not to see.

Well bowling and bridge ain't taking away the spare time like they used to...... Or in my area Little League either..... And the NFL found growth by having their own network and going to Thursday night.....

I'll agree, I think they sound pretty great these days, but the sparkle that the JD Shaw arrangements added to their musical ability is what is non existent today, not their ability. I don't think Don Hill's a bad arranger, at all I sure as hell couldn't arrange anything, but I just don't think he's been a good fit for Phantom thus far. I enjoyed his work at Glassmen, really enjoyed his 2002 - 2003 Cadets books, and his high school stuff is to die for, he just for some reason hasn't brought that to Phantom, and maybe for reasons we don't know, he can't. All they're lacking to me is that intangible magic that Shaw, and before him Wren brought. I think he's amazing at what he does, just not at Phantom. Come finals the past few year I've enjoyed their shows, just not loved them.

That is what you get when the judging community is trained to judge what they consider "good" by the corps that win. DCI would do well to get a lot more judges and start cycling people through judging music as opposed to the same old same old. This is what you are going to get. Frankly judges need to be sequestered from corps and their staffs as well IMHO.

Screech was not yet in the Sunisers in '65. I believe he arrived in '66 or '67. John Sasso was the 4th mello in '65, having played French Horn up until then. (gsksun is correct about the other 3, and Ol' Mac being a kind of homage to the Skyliners, albeit with a few more key changes than DBTS.) Also, that's Billy Cobham on the "Sing, Sing, Sing" drum solo, the intro to which being my one and only recorded duet with him. Billy is returning to drum corps this year, on staff with the Bluecoats. Look out!

Hmmm ... would have been interesting in 64 if Archie used a sax lead in Shangri La ... :-)

But enough about the United States Congress....

It is to a point. DCA shrunk again too. Many less corps than 2005 for a variety of reasons. Winter guard and winter percussion groups are flourishing. The guards can join a corps and be doing similar things, the percussionists, not so much. This put them on equal playing fields. To some that may not matter much, but for others, most importantly. caption heads, techs, and fellow instructors, it does make a difference.

HAHA ... according to Screech, the exact reason Sasso penned that tune! :-)

sayeth Corpsband: In an old house in Paris that was covered with vines lived twelve little girls in two straight lines. In two straight lines they broke their bread ... Yup! Two straight lines sez "Rockford Files" to me, oui ou non? John Brazale and crew would certainly beam.

Well stated! Unfortunately, drum corps show sponsors over the past two decades have responded to dwindling crowd counts and revenue by simply adding a few bucks to the ticket price the following year as compensation. Over time, that automatic response, seen by many as necessary, has slowly diminished the pool of potential new customers. As Grumpy accurately observes, it's seldom just the price per ticket, it's the total price per visit. How many curious first time neighbors in your town will shell out $50 and higher to try drum corps in this economy? Crowd size at many different live events is in decline, not just drum corps. There are too many less expensive and comfy ways to spend an evening. Particularly for the merely curious local resident. Besides . . . it could rain! DCA is heavily dependent on the live gate. Much more so than DCI. This is the fear Grandpa speaks to. Should DCA manage to lose 15-20 percent of its paying audience, for whatever reason, it's probably all over. Pretending all is well is not the answer.

"1965 Moments": Royal Airs win at CYO Nationals. After having lost to most of the Mid West's big guns, including the Casper Troopers "Big Blue" topped the list at CYO and did not lose another contest in 1965. The "Triple Crown" of CYO, VFW and Legion Nationals would all be theirs. Elphaba WWW

In 1974 I think we had 5 television channels ... and books ... to compete for time. Simply hanging out, with nothing in particular going on, was the most popular form of entertainment. Finding something out of the ordinary coming to town, like a drum corps show, was probably a lot more appealing. Forty years later, we actually have much better tools to get out the message that a show is coming to town, but an exponentially larger amount of entertainment options crowding out the perceived value of the show. With the options available these days (cable, movies on demand, every sport imaginable, etc.) people have to pick and choose WHICH entertainment they have time for and which will be sacrificed.

Hope the roadie got a band patch at the end of the season like the rest of the band. Used to see that at the Hanover Memorial Day Parade but forget which HS it was. Remember it because of the nasty hill at the end of the parade which ends at the cemetary.

There are already those who do DCA first and then DCI. Some DCA corps actually market themselves as giving potential DCI members a place to march and gain experience (and I am not referring to C2). Nothing wrong with that.

A summary of the principal justifications given here in favor of adding electronics... ... would inevitably raise the same case in favor of adding woodwinds.

My non-corps friends in the late 60's thought the pop tunes, old big band charts and patriotic music I played in my local GSC corps was about as lame as it could get. In 1970, my first year in Garfield, we performed at the Princeton U P-rade, their annual alumni parade through campus, billed as the biggest sloppy parade in the world. Given the times and where we were...you could just see and almost feel the disdain and scorn of the Princeton students when we got off the busses in our military Cadet unis, and started to play our opener, Gounod's "Queen of Sheba". They only warmed up to us when we started "White Rabbit", so someone decided (I think it was our DM) that we would ONLY play that tune in the P-rade. I just don't buy the rose-colored view that drum corps was some nationally popular activity that became a niche...it was and is a niche activity for those of us who love it.

Tim was referring to 2013, not this year. In 2013, Boston did not play in Nashville (Murfreesboro). In 2010, Blue Stars finished eighth, so in 2011, they performed in the new Tour of Champions series. This was generally considered to be a compromise with the G7 corps: the tour consisted of more than just those seven corps, and its constituents apparently were based on the previous year's results. In 2011, Boston Crusaders finished eighth, so in 2012, they performed in the Tour of Champions series. From DCI's press release announcing the 2012 season: "Taking the Blue Stars' place in the group after an 11th place finish in 2011 will be the eighth-place Boston Crusaders." In 2012, Boston Crusaders finished seventh, so in 2013, they... didn't perform in the Tour of Champions series--but the eighth place corps from 2012, the Cavaliers, did perform in the 2013 series. Only the G7 performed in the 2013 ToC events. However, it was claimed a few times on these forums in 2013 that Boston was asked to appear in that year's ToC shows but chose not to do so. If that's true, then their 2014 show is unlikely to be a response to being excluded in 2013, because they wouldn't have been, except by their own choice. If it's not true, then I'd call that the inciting incident. In 2013, Boston finished eighth, but in 2014, the Tour of Champions events sometimes included all of the previous year's top seven and sometimes did not, with a few other corps supplementing or replacing the seven.

Neither of these examples would appeal to me at all. Setting aside the question of whether Chaplin's speech actually means anything if you really think about it (a point which has been argued since the film appeared in 1940), he's dead, and drum corps should be about live performance by the members on the field. Likewise if Cabs wanted to have their temptress narrator with them to "perform" that audio role, great, but if she gets a multiple chances to record her part until it's perfect, they may as well prerecord all the performers.

My only regret on 2014 BK was that their Finals performance was flat... in the Quarters, Semi's they were much stronger in performance. Had they performed at Finals as they did earlier in the week, they would have stayed ahead of Phantom Regiment at Finals placement. That said, 2014 was a much, much brighter show from BK than we've ever had before from them. Even their uniforms were much more brighter. I hope BK stays on this " bright show, optimistic show " theme they have chosen of late. Their dark, brooding, complex, show themes they did for years and years clearly didn't do much for most audiences, nor the judges .Like most fans, I like this change they have chosen for themselves much better now too.

Synths in and of themselves...No. Not remaining current and modern with available technololgy and concepts used in marching/music all over the US....Yes. IMO, anyway.

Amps or no amps... synths or no synths... circus animals or no circus animals... jet packs or no jet packs... IMO, it all comes down to the programs the corps put on the field. If the programs engage the audience and make them want to come back and pay to see the product again.... then it's a win. If not... if the paying audience... without whom drum corps cannot survive... is left with a "what the heck is going on out there" feeling... then the activity... DCA, DCI, whatever... will be a big step closer to closing up shop.

If they can continue what they did last year, yes. Haven't ever been emotionally grabbed by a show like that.

Yep. It's hard to please EVERYONE. I immensely enjoyed 2012-2014 way more than 2010-2011. The devil's staircase is unlistenable for me.

Would love to hear other's opinions on this. I have my own, but it's probably obvious what it is. Bottom line: BDB jumped five placements this year. In the past five years, no open class corps has placed anywhere near 15th. That is significant. Kudos to BDB for adjusting to the new sheets and maximizing. But shouldn't they be a world class corps then? How long till they make finals? My real point is: is open class even necessary anymore?

I'm not going to disagree with the first part of that. They are one of the best, if not the best in the activity when it comes to changing their game for maximum effect, but if you believe that Blue Devils don't whine about not winning, then I have some wonderful land to sell you...really pristine property that overlooks one of the greatest opportunities for environmental cleanup and rejuvination that you have ever seen!(if you ask most long time BDs that I have ever known, they will tell you that they should have won every single year...)

Hello everyone - first post! I just signed up for this board and hoped to comment on the Blue Knight's performance on Saturday. I have no DCI affiliation or history - I'm just a random guy from Chicago who has been taking his 75yr old father to the DCI finals for the last 11 years. Its an event that we both cherish every year. I realize this may sound outlandish to all you DCI veterans on this board, but the Blue Knight's performance on Saturday night was the single best show that I have witnessed since I began following DCI over a decade ago. I've often complained over the years that I've never been emotionally moved by any particular performance. Sure....I love the color, pageantry, music, execution etc that make DCI so great. But until the Blue Knight's performance on Saturday, I've never been brought to tears. That all changed Saturday - the Blue Knight's show turned me into a crying, blubbering mess (in a good way). I can't tell you how grateful I was to see their show. Great job and thank you Blue Knights!! I can't wait until next year.

Thank you, it's nice to know I'm not running on like an idiot. I love drum corps, even down low there is some amazing stuff going on. I always try to focus on what I like and really appreciate what ALL of them do regardless of placement. Hell, Cascades "Turn" this year is in my top 10 favorite shows this year. Maybe it is because my ears haven't been tainted and I haven't started to learn how to find mistakes in performances as an educator yet, but it's just THAT thing in my life that I love to follow. I dunno, I just try to watch all I can and give support to everybody. There's some hidden gems down low that some people will never see, and that is unfortunate. I wanna see and hear every bit of drum corps I can. And we will see about next year, I wanna age out if I can.

Everyone better watch out for that battery section. No age-outs and, if they stick together, they're coming to kick ### and chew gum. And there's no gum left in Denver.

Awesome.... I've got three former students marching, 2 on staff and 1 volunteering with them. Over the years a lot of my current a d ex students march BK and I marched there in 97 and 98. Always fun to see those you love doing something so great:)

I think it is great, I just don't think he's figured out quite how to put the winds in a position to succeed as much as he needs to. Sometimes there are long stretches of incredibly hard drill that doesn't appear difficult to the viewers. No one wins in those situations. The design itself is pretty good, and a lot of that goes back to working with awesome winterguards and working with brilliant minds in the other realms he's been a part of.

I guess for me, drum corps is more of an abstract art than a narrative art. When I see an orchestra, for the most part, there's no need for someone to say, "And now Beethoven wants you to know that fate is knocking at the door". It worked that way for years in drum corps, too. Way more than 90% of the best drum corps shows ever have zero narration; in fact, fewer than ten shows over the past ten yeas (since amplified voice was first allowed) even have tolerable narration.

Honest answer... Being from Ohio originally and growing up there, I always think of the Cleveland Cavaliers when someone says Cavs... I've NEVER heard the Cleveland Cavaliers referred to as the Cleveland "Cavies"... Also, I've never heard the Virginia Cavaliers referred to as the "Cavies", but I have heard the "Cavs"... For the drum corps near and dear to my heart, I've always heard "Cavies" until very recently on here... So to answer your question, when I hear "Cavs", I think of the NBA Cleveland Cavaliers, or the Cleveland "Cavs".... I don't think of ANY drum and bugle corps at all... Most other people probably don't care....

If anyone ever wondered why DCI grounded the pit then that photo pretty much says it all. It was either ground them or attach them to golf buggys.

I'll see your marching vibes and raise you the immortal (to both drum corps fans AND his chiropractor), Eddie Jaques...

Oh please. No human being on the planet should ever complain about carrying a snare drum. March around a field with the deep shell Pearl tenors and then come talk to me.