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Hey, I never thought of this to add credibility! Great idea! OK if I use it, too? This from a poster who is currently, and has been for over a decade, directly involved with hosting a DCI WC show... Potential show host: "We'd like to run a WC show." DCI: "How much do you have to spend to get corps to your stadium?" PSH: "We think we can cover a contract of $xxx." DCI: "Here's the list of 6 corps for your show and the total cost is below your contract limit." PSH: "But there's not a single top-12 corps in our show! Our highest placement was 12th! We can't sell tickets to that show." DCI: (literally) "That's your lineup if you want it. Take it or leave it." PSH: "Can I trade these two for just one top-12 corps?" DCI: "Contracts are not negotiable, but you can change your date to earlier in the season to lower the cost." PSH: "But the football team is in the stadium..." DCI: "Umm......." What corps are paid per performance is a function of their placement in the prior year and at what point in the tour your show is taking place. There are, essentially, four tiers of prior year placement in the pricing, and early-season shows are less expensive than late-season shows. As an example, we generally have 3 or 4 top-12 and 2 or 3 from 13 on down. This year we are especially pleased to have Pacific Crest and Seattle Cascades in our show, along with Bluecoats, Crossmen, and several others. Our show is July 31st, so we pay a premium to have a show. It's been fairly common that a similar show has cost us $28,000 plus or minus, in the past. Again, show hosts are not permitted to negotiate with corps on either schedule or cost. And there's no "guarantee". As DCI has said to us many times, "You're paying for a lineup" and, if the host doesn't pay the contract prior to the show, the show is cancelled and the corps don't perform but the host still owes the contract price. The only way a show can be cancelled is if the DCI administrator at the show declares the weather so bad that not even a stand-up on the track by one corps cannot be performed. If that standup is done in a drizzle to a nearly empty stadium, the full contract price is due. EDIT: As one might imagine, this incongruity of show host has been a point of contention in the past, specifically as part of the G7 plan which did away entirely with the local TEP hosting scheme. Of the about 106 or 107 shows, 55 to 60 are run by either DCI or the corps. The other 50 or so shows are run by shows whose profit does not, necessarily, help drum corps. Those profits help the, typically, schools that take the risk and pay the contract, then get their music programs involved to sell the event all over their community. The music program gets the profits from the show. Besides the contract payments, if the show does better and makes more money, the corps don't get any of that extra, the music programs do. Forty-five drum corps shows all across the country, and about that same number of drum corps mostly congested into general areas. Another very real issue is the incongruity of the message when DCI has 100 different "music games" going on each summer. But those are usually the actual, local touch that DCI has with the communities, 45 or so of them, that host drum corps shows as TEPs. Five, eight, ten bands all pre-sold by the local host band...that hundreds, maybe thousands, of direct contacts that drum corps has with schools that they get nowhere else. IMO, the notion that the existing corps would be able to replace TEP hosts is not feasible. And, while its true that George can sell them tickets to our show from Allentown, he loses the greatest proponent he has - the local band host looking to make a profit for his music program. I, frankly, have no idea where that spiel came from but, now that I've said it, I'll return to work.

I understand Brasso's point, but it's not exactly accurate. While DCI "is the corps", as he says, it is not true that the corps themselves run the competitions, except to the extent that some corps run their own shows. The corps' representatives vote to approve or disapprove (or do so by proxy of those they elect to represent them) just about every issue related to the activity each year so, in that vein, they do "run" things. To answer your specific questions, DCI, individual corps, and Tour Event Partners all produce a show. As part of that responsibility, each host is responsible for providing housing and rehearsal space, showers, and quiet, segregated classrooms for drivers to sleep. Corps directors meet early in the season, before auditions, to discuss, pound out, and sign up for shows on the tour. Each ED chooses his own tour schedule and tour route, then agree to participate at shows along their route. DCI creates the tour by coordinating its own shows with those of the corps and those that are TEP run. Each show host is charged a fee for each corps in its lineup, making up a contracted amount that must be paid prior to the show date. Each corps pays for its own expenses, although DCI does have a line-of-credit that it uses to "front" money to the corps prior to the season start, and is repaid as the season draws fans to the gates. Also, the major part of each corps' tour is decided long before their corps are filled out (WC/OC). While some changes happen during the tour, it's a rarity.

Other possible ideas to add interest in Indy: 1. <<insert corps>> meet-and-greet "Meetup" at a local restaurant...go meet fellow Cadets, Blue Coats, Vanguard etc. fans 2. Food trucks...there should be a unique Food Truck Row outside the stadium...the food at Lucas Oil is bad 3. T-shirt tosses (like they do at basketball games) into the crowd? 4. Contests and prizes (maybe shown over the stadium's video monitor in between performances)...like they do at sporting events...Drum Corps questions like, "Tell me when Star of Indiana won the championship?" or whatever...and the fan guesses the answer...win a free whatever. 5. Mini-mini- standing brass line to give unannounced performances inside the stadium...near booths...like they do at Disneyland when all of a sudden a brass line comes out and tears it up 6. Backstage tours? 7. Tours of the Indy Zoo! ; )

Exactly correct. Design is meaningless without execution. Despite all the whining about adult-designed programs (which AFAIK has always been the case) sloppy execution is perfectly capable of killing brilliant design. What's grinding some gears here is that there's a certain tolerance level for execution that can be "overcome" by the confluence of design and performance. It's an interesting question (with no defined answer). What's the minimum level of execution at which design becomes effective? How much "error" is tolerable before it begins to affect the number you're about to write down? Of course for some the answer is any error should impact design. This is exactly what you had in the "tic" system (which simply shifted the semantics to "what is a tic"). And this tolerance (which has always existed and always been subjective) will vary from judge to judge, show to show, and design to design. You hope and pray that you get consistency. Of course that's the goal of the judges as well -- to agree on the values used to define a performance. Some moments only work when they're perfectly clean. For other moments clean is so irrelevant (or impossible to define) that in practice they always work. Most moments are somewhere in between those two extremes. To say "it's all about design" is just plain ignorant. Design is a precondition. You must have design to place a value on the execution. But in the end performers must realize the design, bring it to life, and make it their own.

I probably shouldn't have opened with the "was brainstorming a new business model" part. I just really have no clue what the role the corps and DCI play is, and had no clue how my ideas differed from what was actually out there.

Hmmm..... Picking one....2014 Blue Devils. That might be the best performed, designed, and written show I have ever seen. I saw them at Rutgers later in the season. I know a 2.3 spread from 1st to 2nd is huge at that level, but even at that it seemed artificially small.

2003 Phantom at finals in Orlando. So much crowd energy during that ending. 2014 Bluecoats. Saw it in San Antonio, but for better or worse, Drum Corps design changed that day.

Stanford University Marching Band ? Is this the progressive, avard garde university MB that is anything but traditional, conservative in its style... but which non MB regular folks seem to like and get a kick out of their irreverence? This Fancy Pants Liberal University's MB has a history of drugs, alcohol, and sexual harrassment issues however. Here's hoping that Gavin can clean up this University's deplorable MB culture there.

Glad I saw Bluecoats last year in Nashville. It's a show you almost had to see live to appreciate.

Their brass line was good, it wasn't great, definitely not better than anyone above them, or even The Cadets, but I expect their success from last season to carry on to this one. But man....it's going to be competitive....Bluecoats won, you'd have to expect them to at least medal again, Blue Devils are in the running EVERY YEAR for a Gold - to think they are going to NOT medal is unthinkable - Crown is also very good and could/should medal again, and they are hungry for another gold - SCV has been beating on the door for the last 5 years - one would think they are going to medal again at some point - could it be this year??? Cavaliers, of course we just mentioned them, looks like they're ready to compete - and then there's the Cadets - still a #### good corps - could medal at any point - and if you want to throw in Blue Knights who stay competitive, I don't really think they could medal, but crazy things have happened - so realistically we got 6 corps who should win a medal. Lol. Whoever DOESN'T medal, it's going to be a disappointment. What I really hope happens is that judges score them closer together. We see Blue Knights who scored just over 90 points last season for 7th - realistically I think that show deserved at least 92, perhaps 93. And then score the corps above them from that point. Cadets didn't deserve a 92.x, that was a 95 point show. I want to see 6 corps score above 95 - that's what they should end up deserving, quit scoring them on a curve. I hate that crap.

I'm gonna stick to ones I saw live. I got to watch Carolina Crown rehearse the day before their first show in Arizona (or was it New Mexico...) in 2013. Hadn't heard or seen any of the show. I knew they were gonna win as soon as they did their full run through, that was pretty dang special.

Spirit of Atlanta 1980 at Finals which also included: 27th Lancers 1980 Bridgemen 1980 Blue Devils 1980

'91 Star! There have been a ton of good ones since but still haven't watched a show quite as special as that one.

Uniforms?

I may have to change mr original answer. I forgot 27th's "Once More in 94" on a murky August night at DCI Finals in Foxboro. WHAT A NIGHT!

I know Cadets 07 gets hyped a ton (and rightfully so) but I've always really liked Winged Victory.

2007 Blue Devils at finals. i had only seen it on stream before then, and it was like a completely different show live.

'75 Madison Scouts '75 Muchachos

1987 Garfield Cadets at Finals.. that show was truly special.

This is the opposite of the 'Pick a Show You Wish You Saw Live' - pick any show you are glad you did see live Me - 1980 Spirit of Atlanta at Michigan City

I think there was a period earlier that summer where I got to see that show twice in three days, and by the second time (at some small podunk high school) when they got to the end of their ballad I was sure it was one for the ages. Had to physically hold myself back from standing up right then. I couldn't believe what I was witnessing.

I actually was there and even though that was and is in my top 5, for what I heard in Arrowhead - known to be the loudest outdoor stadium in the US, from the last 90 seconds of Malagueña to the cutoff was absolutely the loudest ever for my ears. Might have been because of where I was - bottom of the first hanging section on the 45. With the crowd going crazy, begging for more sound, the screamer section kicked and the rest of the corps responded with the patented Madison stance, there was no way you could hear yourself. I was on the lower deck on the 30 for Phantom in Bloomington, so I was probably a little skewed in what I could hear, but I could still hear. The announcement of the second place corps was not as big either, again to where I was, but you are correct in the emotion that very similarly displayed. I was a lot younger in Ithaca, NY when the Muchachos took over the stands and the field in the 74 finals, and being only 16, it was a much impressive setting to me despite being on the left side 25. When the bugle called announced them and the audience started revving up with Ole cheers and the stands erupting into, east, east, east, it was a mad house and I got caught up in it. It's still the single most crazy audience I have been. You almost couldn't hear because everyone was cheering everything. I went on a tour the next year to Europe with the US Collegiate Wind Band, which was based at Purdue University and got to know one of the guys in the snare line and he said most of them couldn't remember much from the show. He said it went by quickly, but was like being in a slow motion dream, he said they felt like they were looking at themselves as they played and marched. It's still the biggest placement jump (from prelims to finals) ever in DCI history. I was already hooked on Drum Corps, but got the fever with that year!

Crown 2013 hands down. It was my very first DCI show and at the opening hit I was sold. The sheer power and clarity of Crown's hornline that year gave me chills the entire show, and the story captivated me so immensely I never got bored, and as a plus one of the few ballads to bring a tear to my eye.

Oh, OK. You haven't picked a fight, you never reply in an incendiary way. If you say so. Your comments or responses often read that way though, imo. And your explanation comes across in a manner of "you doth protest too much".

Thread asks for unpopular opinions. Opinion provided.

Thank you!!!

On a $28k cost (plus other overhead I'm guessing) can you share what the ROI is? Wait, I just thought about it further. Who receives the ticket fees? 100% the show promoter, or is it split 50/50 with DCI? If the latter, DCI really charges for the corps and still gets a cut of revenue? Also if the latter, does the corps' money come from the DCI cut, or is it more complicated than even that?

Madison has been in finals about the same and in 8th place in '15 dropped out in '16 does not matter how long you've been in finals

' Not entirely sure what your personal definition of a "weighted tier model " is, but if its what I think it is, then Yes, Corps are guaranteed up front payments in the contract with show sponsors for certain Corps... and as one would naturally expect, the upfront guarantee to have ( for example ) the Blue Devils agree to appear in your show, is going to be higher than to secure the agreement from ( for example ) the Oregon Crusaders to appear in your show. Sometimes DCI would suggest a mix of Corps for show sponsor with a fee upfront of such a mix. This is why we oftentimes see Corps traveling together from show to show in a grouping mix, especially early in the season, as it makes financial sense for both DCI and the sponsors to coordinate it in this fashion logistically as well as financially.

Sure. I've sat on the board of a former DCI show that negotiated with DCI. So I know the intricacies involved in the negotiation. DCI set the terms. We would accept them or reject them. For many years we did, but then we felt our time and expenses oustripped our financial returns. It happens... there were no bad feelings in the end with us or DCI. DCI has a base of show sponsors that are run by DCI Corps themselves, and others that have had shows for decades. DCI then has a group of new sponsors that will undertake the enormous work that goes into hosting a show. Some will repeat, others won't.. for any number of reasons. But DCI pretty much sets the terms and calls the shots if a potential organization decides they'd like to sponsor a DCI show. Hope this info helps you that comes from a poster that has actually been directly involved in hosting a DCI show in the past.

I wish I could have been there for that!

The Columbus Saints Drum & Bugle Corps held April Auditions for Guard & Brass this past weekend. With the addition of two new guard staff members Brittany Giles (Bluecoats 12-13) and Justin Maniaci (O2 World), the Guard is off to a great start! Brass auditions were led by Brass Caption Head Bryen Warfield (Bluecoats Alum 09; SCV staff 12-16; Bluecoats Staff 17), and Brass Tech Brad Thomas (Cincinnati Tradition 09-12 & DCA I&E Tuba Soloist Winner). We're looking forward to our May Auditions for All Sections as we lead into our 10 SHOW Summer Tour in DCI SoundSport! Learn more at http://columbussaints.org/

Staying within the spirit of the topic, I would invest unlimited money into Indy's (non-existent) night life. Just absolutely revamp the whole thing. Create venues/bars/etc. that will actually cultivate some kind of night life for that city. Concentrate it on a single district (rework an existing one or start from zero), throw in 4-5 hotels within mere blocks of each other with businesses specifically catered to hosting evening activities liberally sprinkled in. Basically invest in bringing that town to life.

The evolution of entertainment mediums is always met by disappointed sighs from the previous generation and enthusiastic acceptance from the current/future one. The cycle continues.

1979 North Star.

My first time attending Finals - 1974 As I recall, we had great seats (35 yd line or so, halfway up - Lord knows how much they would cost today) and the energy in the stadium for the last half of the show was amazing! My dad's cassette recordings that night still sound pretty good and even on those the energy is palpable.

This show is yet another instance of a Cadets show that is great musically and visually, but is a huge whiff conceptually/thematically. These past couple Cadet shows especially are some of my favorite to listen to, but least favorite to watch front to back.

93 Star.

Here's one not listed yet: Academy 2016 I saw that show really early season and knew it was gonna be great. Just a great fan favorite show that I think will be talked about among many young drum corps fans for years to come.

For me, it was BK DATR 2012. I had never been to a drum corps show before in my life. It was raining off and on. All the corps did standstills...until it was BK's turn. They came out and did their WHOLE show. I don't know a lot about music, especially classical music, but I love to listen to most anything. I'm a big Sci-Fi fan. Their show...the bird race...the comet...their journey to a new home...the metamorphosis...the Firebird Suite...WOW.

" the groundwork for modern arranging for the field. (Frank! Can you help me with that!? Am I nuts!?!?!?) " Neither you nor Grenadier are nuts. Someday, I suppose, someone will figure out how to reconcile fact with opinion. For the moment, one is entitled to one;s own opinions, not one's own facts, though lately there seems to be a drift in that direction. I would never presume to speak for anyone else, but will make the distinction between what moves me on a visceral level, and that which I appreciate analytically, or dare I say, intellectually. On the one hand, I am so very impressed by both the design and virtuosity of corps like Crown, Blue Devils and Bluecoats. They are the state of the art, without question. But when I drop the needle on the "Horns Aplenty" Fleetwood disc, The Cambridge Caballeros, Audubon, Patterson and Selden transport me to a world of being that is simply not describable in current terms. Words fail. It's all feeling, and no modern drum corps can go there in the same way. The Brits have a saying for the impossibility of comparing some things: "it's like soap and next Tuesday".

It's gotta be Bluecoats 2016 finals night, but up until then it was Phantom Regiment 2008.

Thunderous goo.

Carolina Crown 2013 finals.

I think that shows when I was a teenager and young adult were very exciting for me here in New England, as many corps from out west infrequently came east. When they did, it was really an event. Some of my favorites: St. Kevins 1960 (yes local, but just wonderful), Royal Airs 1965 and 1967, Blessed Sac, 1969, and Casper Troopers, 1969 and 1970.

Cadets 2000. Honorable mention SCV 2009.

I've only been going to live shows since 2010, and didn't get to see everyone ever year. Bluecoats 2016 is definitely the one I'm glad I saw live.

Phantom Regiment in 2008 all of finals week. Need I say more?

I jumped back some pages to get caught up and saw this, so I haven't yet read subsequent pages. We wore Boston shirts Black, Red Leo, for two reasons: 1. In honor of BAC's great drum lines and the corps' grit and determination. 2. It was just a cool shirt. The year was 1976, and it was multiple shows, including finals week. I aged out in 78, so I don't know about later years. I made it a point to pass on to others our respect for Boston.

I hope more brass soloists give us more winks this season.