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I think you're better off going to The Cadets directly to get the answers you need as opposed to listening to people on here who have an agenda.

They have decided... ... that you are not orcs.

This entire thread has devolved into an Abbott and Costello routine.

Everything that came after this opening paragraph needs to be rethought after you calculate in to your analysis the fact that you conflated "Show Expenses" to be the "cost of renting facilities". That's not correct. The big elephant included in that total of about $6.55mm is the cost of the corps. Memory fades with age but, IIRC, something along the lines of $2.5mm to $3mm of DCI's revenue gets paid out to drum corps as "performance fees" (called all manner of things in the actual DCI record-keeping, I suspect). You can cut costs on stadium facilities (good luck) but, to cut that $3mm paid out to corps, the corps voting membership has to agree to cut their own pay. GOOD LUCK! I'd bet they pound the crap out of that expense statement before they agree to cut their own pay. You'll have those cost no matter where they play. In fact, it's true that the ED's job is to negotiate the very best deal with the stadiums, et al, for the strict benefit of the member corps, not for the benefit (currently) of DCI's income statement. What they save in negotiation is, and should be, paid out the to corps. (This is a whole-other discussion!) Still, after correcting your numbers down to around $35,000 to rent an "average" stadium, that also makes sense. No, N.E. Brigand, it doesn't cost $35m to rent an average high school stadium but it also costs a whole lot more than $35m to rent your average professional domed football stadium, too. Just do some simple deductive thought using, say $75m to rent Alamo (I truly have no clue) and logically crank that up to, say $125m PER DAY to rent LOS (again, I have NO idea) and you can easily see that four very expensive regional stadiums can lower significantly the average cost per high school stadium. Do HS facilities "cost" $20m to $25m to host drum corps? Yep, you bet. And the big, new fancy Texas stadiums are probably much more. Now, I very much appreciate your thought process and I'll anticipate following your rationale after you've corrected your thoughts with these corrections. This issue stumped me and a bunch of others for a day or so in a 990 discussion years ago until I discovered that "paying" the drum corps is an expense on DCI's income statement. Show revenue is income, paying for corps and paying for stadiums (and all the rest) show up as expenses. If you scan all of the expense lines, you'll not find any entry line item that identifies "corps pay" or any such thing on the 990. It's buried in "Show Expense". The only thing I see in the '18 990 that could be dubious is the ubiquitous "all other expenses" category that collected just under $1mm. OK, that's not huge but it is a little under 10% of their expenses. "Other Expenses" is always for things one deliberately wants to hide or, more likely, "When There's No Place Else To Put Something" -- on the 990 form. That DOESN'T mean that they've not identified those expenses, it's that there's no place on the 990 filing to report them. You know, like strip clubs, expensive steak houses, and private jets to San Antonio. (I'm KIDDING!!) I think it's illustrative to look at the numbers in comparison to others. For example, how has that number ("corps pay") changed across 990s?

"Cheer" ties back into Drum Corps and band. I get a newsletter called "BIG," by Matt Stoller, about the economics and politics of monopolies. Today's newsletter was about Varsity Brands, the monopoly behind cheerleading competitions. (They're also owned by Bain Capital, BTW.) In one of the episodes of the show, "cheerleaders complain that they can't watch cheerleading on TV anymore, because Varsity streams its competitions over its for-pay app Varsity TV, moving ESPN out of the picture." Have seen ...twice?... written online (I think once here and once on Reddit) that Varsity would bid if the Cadets decide to sell YEA, to start expanding into the band world. That would be a very bad thing, for many, many reasons. Varsity has regulated out rival apparel companies, directly owns gyms where cheerleaders practice, and lobbies against regulating the activity as a sport, because it would then impose limits on competitions and practice time. Example - in another quote from the newsletter, their CEO "admitted that in at least one contest, cheerleaders got more points if they used more Varsity equipment as props." BTW, cheerleading "causes more than half of the catastrophic injuries for female athletes in America." Mike (instant expert, 'cause I read one article. Granted, it was about 30 minutes before I saw this thread for the first time, so... timely!)

I think this counts as real information: 2019 - 17th place 2018 - 16th place 2017 - 12th place (!) 2016 - 13th place I boldly claim not being coed had nothing to do with this recent placement record. I will further claim the move to coed was motivated by the need to *do something* to attempt to distract attention from Chris and Dann’s performance, which is unacceptable (my opinion). “Discriminatory” is just the B.S. bow they wrapped it in. The all male membership was no more discriminatory than all brass is for DCI.

I could have bet the house the drum major this year was going to be female. Let's be honest, the Scouts made this decision to stop people pointing at the dumpster fire that really nothing to do with being all male or coed.

well that makes you different (and special/helpful) you want the corps to succeed and you wait for announcements - you don't spew rumors true and/or untrue

Who’s on third? I don’t know.

It’s easy enough to judge if players are marching around with mics attaches to their bells. It’s also easy enough to ban certain types of field level mics that are designed to pickup sound from sources further away.

i am hoping all i am hearing is just bad rumor

i'd rather walk on my lips than watch either

I don’t know

Cadets will be on tour in 2020

So they know it's a problem and they don't want to fix it?

Simple Question: I am donating to a kid who received a contract.....should I be waiting for "some announcement" before I send the check?!?

I am fairly sure the 990 "Show Expenses" category includes far more than just the cost of stadium rentals.

Ah, but what happens when Yamaha then comes back and says "want free woodwinds? Buy Yamaha brass and percussion first." Mike

Clash showed just why reality tv can be a bad thing

No, the answer to everything is 42. 😎

For several years my delight with Drum Corps has been waning. My first experience with Drum Corps was in 2004 at the invitation of Dr. Thomas Root. It was electrifying for me. The sound had majesty, grace, and purity. I went to the souvenir trailers and purchased every CD I could lay my hands on. The quality of the recordings were much more variable than quality of the Corps on the field. None of the CDs were electrifying to me. Then for many years I endeavored to record all those elements, with various success. Along the way I provided yearly support for the Ogden Corps Encore Show. I recall clearly when I was faced with the first instance of canned show program, I was incredulous. In subsequent years the shows got even more canned and more amplified - rather than a race to have great musicians it was a race for expensive mixer boards, equalizers and speaker systems. As a side note there was also a race to incorporate props and scenery. During the last show in Ogden, I listened carefully - I was not electrified. I was electrified during some of the rehearsals that didn’t have the amplification running. It could be that there is a cumulative million+ hours of devotion within the members of a corps, and then all that majesty, grace, and purity is stuffed through a PA system. Now I have lost any interest in attending or supporting. I don’t like listening to amazing musicians through a vitiating PA system. Moreover I feel guilty about any of my efforts, donations, or support that subsidizes PA systems. It might be valid to compare the use of PA systems to steroid use, for my taste it sounds bad and feels like cheating. I sorrow for those million hours of musician devotion that I don’t hear with majesty, grace and purity. Ray Kimber, Ogden Utah

Trust me it was hard enough not to #### my pants with what I’ve heard and confirmed from multiple places. I don’t need all of you ####### your pants too

I stopped giving as well - many of us did... it's not all about winning - it's about a quality experience

and woodwind players

exactly - especially ones with very obvious agenda

Farm Show building is worse and they hold concerts there!

$6000 could be cheap for an indoor venue. an indoor circuit here in PA approached Hershey about using the Giant Center for an all day regional. they wanted 10 grand just to turn the lights on, not factoring in everything else. given they'd make on a concert or circus or disney on ice compared to indoor drum corps, no way we'd get a deal

What is on Second Base.

The news will come soon enough. A decision has been made!

was it misinterpreted? as no follow up comment ever camr from the organization or DCI, one can't assume. often when making a statement that can be misconstrued, clarifying statements are made, if nothing else to clear the air. none were made. also, there are private organizations. they can do as they wish and it's legal to do so.

As each of you travel back home, I want to express my gratitude for your restraint, and decision not to approve the latest proposal to include marching woodwinds at this time. As I see it, Drum Corps International has seen too many fundamental changes, too fast. Recent changes to amplification, movement, uniforms, set pieces, and judging have placed more than enough on your plate for the time being. Add in concerns over funding, housing, performance rights, broadcast quality and reach, etc. Frankly, each of these items still need work. Particularly the amplification matter ! Better to fine tune/conquer matters already in hand. Now is a time for focus, stability, and calm. Much appreciated.

I didn't even realize this was up for a vote.

There are so many more streaming outlets now with NetFlix, Amazon, Disney, Apple that there has to be a market for this type of in depth show. They recently did this type of show with F1, Drive to Survive. It really gave fans a BTS view and interviews and access to fans that is just not available in normal scenarios. It came out After the season so the interviews are candid and really get to the heart of the sport. It didn't focus on competition but to tell the individuals stories BTS the happen through the year. Netflix notoriously throws money at anything in their search for content that their Billions of viewers want to watch. Watching Cheer will lead Netflix to discover that there is a demo that is interested in the backstories alternate sports organizations in the US. I just hope that FLO doesn't hold the exclusive rights to anything DCI. Such a type of deal would prevent this side BTS project from taking off the ground.

Why have voting if the only result is "yes"? Inevitably, some proposals are going to get "no" votes. You have the wrong task force. According to Kathy Black in her interview with Dan Potter, it was the New Revenue Task Force that came up with this idea.

is there ever?

By definition, the all male policy was discrimination. The Madison Scouts saying “We aren’t comfortable with this policy any longer” does not equal then saying “The Cavaliers are in the wrong for not having the same beliefs as us.” That’s inferring something that has never been stated. No one is out there trying to force their beliefs on someone else. They’re simply stating why they made the decision they did.

I was embarrassed watching. I know what young folks do on their free time (I was one once) but I really didn’t need details.

serious thought needs to be had, i've said it for over a decade. thanks for reading.

Designers using woodwinds is dismissed as not being creative because they have been used in scholastic marching band, while designers using just brass are creative because they can't use WW? That make no sense to me. Sorry. A show design can be just as creative using WW and brass as it is using just brass.

So Genesis went too far for you then?

Actually, many OC corps *are* happy to remain outside of World Class, to *not* have to raise million dollar budgets and arrange for 50-day tours. And I don't know how much experience you have with OC, we really *do* love drum corps down there, and we like being DCI groups and doing generally DCI-type things without having to become a World Class designer's avant-garde testbed. I love the fact in your posts that you challenge everyone's assumptions; I really do. Sometimes it's good to take a step back and say "why do we do what we do?" I literally have a job doing that, BTW. But sometimes, we do things because they *are* the best practice for the situation. Mike

Just checking back for the big news.

Huh. This didn't age well.

Yes. It's one section off the 50 and close to the field. The last three years we've sat in section 640 for semis to see the overall package then either 139 or 141 for finals to be closer to the energy coming off the performers for their last performance of the season.

If "WE" were still in this mess, "WE" would stop coming online complaining and actually try to fix the problem. But instead, "WE" come on to this site and b#tch and complain. Stop saying "WE" when you really mean "they."

no need sir!

There was nothing wrong with your post. I wish the Cadets the best and I hope their troubles are behind them. .

Sorry for my choice of words in my previous post. That is why I do not post on forums. I was just trying to relay the passion and commitment expressed by the corps leadership. My apologies

Reward good music and clean shows. See though BS and filler and reward doing. More crutches should = less score. Better staging/better playing/better marching = better score. Do NOT base this year scores on last years performance. (big one here)

See, there's so much you could have said without punching him in the nose in the process. Daggers are not necessary. He has his opinion - you've been trumpeting your incredulous attitude towards legacy fans for a long time. You're consistent, if nothing else. Your opinion is as valid as his, but he didn't jab you, personally, or anyone else in posting his feelings. I value his opinion more as a result. "The older you get, the smarter I'll get" said every father and "Legacy Fan".