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I agree with this. Drum & Bugle Corps is, first, a music activity. It sprouted from a musical activity and is still music first. The visual (be it drill, flags, sabres, props) are there to enhance the music in real-time. It's the music that touches us the most, with the visuals adding greatly, but to a lesser extent. The scoring system has to better reflect excellence in music performance (achievement), excellence in music construction (what the kids are given, content and artistry), and excellence in demand (the difficulty of that content). Music GE should be given greater weight over Visual GE, and Visual GE should be more about how the visuals enhanced the music and less about having the latest, greatest, most innovative show ever. None of this matters when the show is a snoozer and the choppy, unfocused music leaves everyone wishing they had gone to the British Open for tea, crumpets, and the excitement of Phil Mickelson's polar golf game. :-) Choppy Phrasing One of the things I checked was Show Design, but it's not so much about entertainment. There are many types of entertainment to be developed and experienced by us, the fan. I don't expect every corps to be Madison Scouts-like, and I don't want to see all the corps copying each other. The problem the activity has, at least in terms of show design, is with building and managing phrases and musical thought. I don't have to like every show I see, but if I see something that is well developed, well planned, makes musical sense, and keeps the viewer/listener attached to the show for the full 12.5 minutes, then I think that is a success. Too many corps have tried to put so much music into their shows that the arranging is short, snippety, even gimmicky at times, and the sense of good musical phrasing that would help to build to climactic moments is simply not found. The notion that you can just put some loud chord anywhere for instant impact (GE) is false. For years people often gushed over Phantom Regiment's ability to connect with an audience (and for good reason). People always thought it was because they played classical music (in a loose sense of that term for my music scholars out there), but in reality it's how they arrange their music with big, sweeping phrases that pull us into the show. To some extent, music is emotion (it can be many other things as well), but the emotional front will fare so much better and draw fans into the shows at a higher rate when phrasing is dealt with. Too many shows of today feel like sound effects reels with visual chaos taking place. It's even worse when you announce your theme to the world (in marketing, programs, DCI website, etc.) and after viewing the show we still can't tell what your show is about.

Well, Bawker already said what I would say. I didn't vote in the poll because the reality is that the designs that bug me the most are in response to the judging system we have right now. So, my most wide-reaching change would be: More emphasis on member achievement and less emphasis on design choices. (content) Find a way to reward shows that are challenging AND entertaining. Stop rewarding designers for "innovation" for innovation's sake. Actually hold corps accountable for over-use of electronics to the point that the sound of the brass and/or percussion is covered up or overly enhanced. Stop allowing instructors or non-members to monitor and adjust amplified sounds - force corps to choose to use one of their 150 spots for that position, and if they want someone in the stands to be allowed to communicate with that person, it has to also be part of that 150 person ensemble. Lastly, ALL sounds must be generated by an individual in live performance - no pre-recorded singing, no samples of songs, alternate instrumentation, etc. We have winter drumline and color guard already. We don't need it on the summer performance field, too. How about rewarding corps for being fully self-sufficient and NOT using electronics to create more bass sound, or a wind sound, or bells, or alien spaceships! The more we use acoustic instruments to make these types of sounds, the more creative members will be when faced with their own limitations in the future. Electronics are easy to use to make such sounds. It's much harder to do it acoustically. Don't get me wrong - I love the use of electronics in other avenues. I just think it's a crutch in this particular activity and I wish it was properly judged and not ignored. So, those are my 2 cents.

Just a small attempt at some humor...please peeps, let's not freak out. Their love for each other was so profound that no words were needed to describe it! Finally, she spoke... John thinks: Awe, I was just starting to get into the touching bodies thing! "Do you love me John"?, she asked. John thinks: so much for the profound no words needed thing...he answers in his most convincing voice: "You know I do darling, you are my sun, and moon, my world! My life is nothing without you!" That seems to satisfy her. John checks his email and messages on his phone. She speaks again..."How much do you love me John?" John thinks: Really? Why do I bother? Didn't she hear the sun and moon thing? Next she will probably ask me if those purple pants make her look fat! He answers: "Infinity babe, infinity times infinity! Now come back over to the bench and let's get busy!" Impossible you say?

Electronics and the changes in show design they are enabling are the major problem these days. Every year since 2009, I go to shows, and talk to the folks around me, and some have been around for ages, some have never been to shows before, and some know "drum corps" is something they like but don't really know any particular corps or their history. No one has ever had anything positive to say about the synth usage*, and most people are just confused and annoyed by vocals. But everyone loves cool drum features, awesome brass lines, big visual impacts, incredible challenging drill, and awesome guard tosses. So why put on shows that make people in the audience go "huh?" and "why?" when you already had an amazing product that people love? All the synth has brought to DCI is to water down that awesome product that the activity excels at with some gadgetry that costs a lot of money, annoys the audience, and that honestly they don't use well at all. Focus on what you're good at, at what makes you unique, and you'll go far. * The one exception is Crown 2011, when Nick Starr pulled off some truly virtuosic piano playing comparably impressive and straightforward to the performances of traditional percussion and brass. It was everything that sampled singing, movie quote samples, string pads, gooey bass, and theremin patches are NOT. And Crown didn't use it to give the brass a break from playing, which is what a lot of synth ends up being used for these days.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHH61V-mkBY[/media] There's some Rolling Thunder in here, their parade tune (I think), and a couple of other things. I have to say, those guys at the beginning have some serious singing chops. Great arranging too. This video just goes to show how great these guys (as well as any other ensemble that performs at TOC shows) are at performing, no matter what the task (drum corps show, small ensemble, singing quartet).

While "Tambour" is a somewhat relevant musical term, I'm almost completely positive the word you're looking for is "Timbres:.

As someone who has been around the corps more than 30 years, (and served as a drill tech for 6 of those years), I think it is critical that we don't start second-guessing staff (or management, for that matter). The current staff is one of the best in DCI, in my view, and many of them cut their teeth in a world champion drum corps. Sometimes, vis techs have to prioritize their focus. They WILL get to everything. With as much new drill as they have, I'm sure their plate is full. Besides, one only has to look at the recap from Minn to realize that when you consider three corps within .55 of each other, that show could have gone either way, despite BAC's new drill. Furthermore, the corps just ahead of the three of us is known for peaking early.... When the drum corps is in the middle of tour, a thousand miles from home, it is more important than ever to rally around them. Eat'em Up, Boston!

I think the main problem with DCI show designs lately revolve around the fact that they are taking elements which have been used and accepted in BOA (and other high school marching bank circuits) for a long time and bringing them to drum corps. The problem though is that many of these elements (badly done voice overs, horrible synth string sounds, thunderous goo, etc...) are used to mask the deficiencies of high school groups, yet sound completely unprofessional when paired against college music major-level DCI musicians. The designers and judges have come to accept these as part of the sound of the activity because they are also so involved in those other activities. Us that mostly just pay attention to DCI really hear the foreign elements, and how much they don't fit. Just my 2 cents.

By Gum, that'll show 'em.

When did "world class discussion board" become "fan fiction" board? Also, ew.

So an ex Boston instructor judges last nights show. Guess he is still holding a grudge. Reason y judges and instructors should not b allowed to go back and forth between these positions.

I don't blame the G7 for trying something new with the voice encore. Maybe it wasn't a success... And they didn't play a drum corps classic in a traditional way... So what? They tried something new, good for them... Why are ppl so anti-experimentation? You need to fail in order to succeed.

Make that 4. I can't count.

1=Empire --------------83.90 2=Cabs ----------------82.10 3=Fusion --------------78.30 4=Hucs-----------------72.50 5=Windsor ------------68.30

Oh, I heartily disagree, and I wonder if you really get Crown's show yet (keep watching, you will). I intentionally did NOT do any homework prior to this season. I didn't know EOTB (even though now I realize I had heard the opera in the past, and probably dismissed it), I only knew E=MC2 and the obvious reference, and the love story. Yet, the point of the show was obvious to me at the outset, and I'd bet you a cheap lunch or stadium dog that the judges "got it" on the first viewing. And in this case, the narration during the ballad gave they key to the real meaning of the show even if one hadn't gotten it in the symbol usage and love story. Love was the only thing that Einstein's science couldn't prove. Yet, love can be never-ending. "Impossible, you say?" The basic concept is so base human, and the choice of symbols and music is so clear, that there's almost no way that the show doesn't sell even if you'd never seen EOTB. All of the elements in Crown's show (except percussion execution, so far!) are perfectly matched to the theme, or message, or point of the show. It's a brilliant design that's as simple and accessible to any viewer as we've seen since Angels and Demons. And the most remarkable "element" in the show is that rotating 3D triangle pyramid. That thing will go down as having changed drill design as the Z-Pull and cross-to-cross. It's one of the most amazing drill designs I've seen in 40 years. And it fit the theme of the show perfectly.

This hornline is so smooth. Their sound just seems so effortless. Bloo has several days off in a row before their next show 7/19. I don't know about you guys, but that makes me very excited to watch them in the webcast this weekend.

I was in this prematurely air conditioned supermarket. And, there were all these aisles and there were all these bathing caps that you can buy, that had these kind of 4th of July plumes on them. They were red and yellow and blue. I wasn't temped to buy one but, I was reminded of the fact! That I had been avoiding the beach!

As with any organization with the same leadership in place they become stagnant, which I believe DCI has become at the executive level. It should be run like a business and it doesn't seem to be. Recycled ideas. Lack of vision. Afraid to change. Lack of corporate sponsorship...I'm sure some who marched DCI are in positions of influence at large corporations, develop and nurture those relationships...fund raise. Bring in some fresh ideas and perspective on things. I can't believe there isn't an organization out there that wouldn't want to sponsor DCI...Walmart, Papa Johns, FedEx, UPS, Apple, Microsoft, marching drill software company, and so on. There needs to be money for advertising, to draw in more people. Summer time family fun night, come out to the stadium to see the worlds best in your own backyard. Imagine drawing in 20-30k on a regular basis instead of 300 or so at small hs stadiums. 15 regional shows across the country instead of a couple. This can absolutely be done...it takes vision, leadership and a plan to get there.

Actually, they are indeed tossing little tiny rifles inside the props, but the cover on top hides what they are doing. They DO tell the judges what is going on just to make sure they get credit for it. :lookaround:/>

Part of the disconnect with the story is that the "enchanted forest" has no reference to a dragon. There are scary trees, guard, percussion and horns but no reference to a dragon in all the time they spend on that section of the show. In the Nimrod section, Zena gets her sword and gets brave. After Nimrod and a few minutes of drill (which I can't equate to the story) she then slays a dragon? Where did this dragon come from, what reference to the story was it up to this point and where did the scary enchanted forest go? The story has more holes in it than Prometheus.

2002 Blue Devils...no amped brass required!

Is DCP gonna blast someone for having an opinion? Yes I would have to agree with this quote. "Side x Side" may be pretty darn clean in some aspects, but some of the basic show designing and such leave me unsettled and not in a good way. And then the color guard... I'm hoping Minnie was just a bad run... But seriously, MEDEA and Adagio together makes me feel really sick to my stomach (arrangement, not the playing). Kudos to the Corps for pulling off this program, but in my opinion, some of the design leaves much to be desired.

Crown > BD > SCV > Cadets imo /hides

Unless the reason you were there was to listen to brass and percussion.....

2013 is one of the most exciting DCI seasons in years, with compelling shows and high levels of energy, composition, and performance from 1 - 15 or so. And the judges are doing what no one in the world does better, adding their own perspective to help the world's greatest staffs get it even more right by the end of the year. No one on DCP can truly say that he or she knows who DCI champions will be this year. I guarantee you it will be the corps that deserves it. The hoopla over multi-keys and electronics is just about behind us, and for good reason (and I'm a dinosaur with 50 years of drum corps experience). Acheson et al. (it pains me a little to say this but I'll include George in this statement) have done a good job guiding this activity. Love it to death. All my opinion.

I'd prefer no electronics but as with G bugles, that ship has sailed. I can live with electronics as long as corps are in effect penalized score-wise for obvious balance issues (thunderous goo) or glitches (painful electronic feedback--corps are not punished for these issues now), but I have yet to see a drum corps show where I liked amplified singing or more-than-split-second or post-warmup narration. To me it is a huge distraction and is very annoying. It dilutes the message that instrumental music delivers better. I would like to see a portion of GE judging go to entertainment value rather than the weird envelope- and conceptual-pushing that passes for GE judging now. Give part of GE scores to innovation, but if the designers chloroform the audience and get golf claps, that ain't GE to the audience and shouldn't be scored as high as the corps that pulls it all off.

To your typical brass snob, I'm sure it was hard to listen to, but the majority of ticket holding fans loved it based on the sheer volume if nothing else.

Almost always vodka for me. On a side note, anyone ever been drinking and thought, "do I drink too much?" Nah, me either.

I just had a root beer float.

I promise I'm not sensitive to criticism, but I was in the the Madison Color Guard in 09 (along with 08 and 10)...Regardless of what product we were given, it was one of the greatest experiences ever. In my mind, it does exist.

Troop, Crossmen and Colts tonight! Ooohhweeee! This is gonna be good.

I'm not surprised in the slightest :tongue:/>

I'm very conflicted on this as well. I absolutely wish electronics never reared its ugly head in drum corps. On the other hand I'm very good friends with the guy who does that work for the Scouts. He's a brilliant musician and arranger and I think their use has been much more tasteful than most other corps. Agreed on the thunderous goo - it's not needed anywhere.

Jolesch looks like they're still in business as Jolesch Enterprises.

Crown > SCV > Cadets > BD in terms of my enjoyment. Crown > Cadets > SCV > BD in terms of how I think the judges should be rating their performances.

Thoughts after a day in Olathe. You can feel the effort Chad is putting into each time he is with the corps/brass willing them on to keep working hard to improve. Talking from "up high", motivating the members on. Even last night he was on the track, ears cupped with his hands, and clapping after the brass played a key phrase well. If "uniformity of movement/equipment angles" is critical, this show is a bear. So much body movement, (sideways and side steps/lunges) that there is so many opportunities to be off. If the mm who end up on the front line by the stands can improve their positioning, that will help tremendously since there may not be enough time for the judge(s) to look further back into the formation(s). The guard, around 45 total, has so much equipment tosses and movement, it really increases the difficulty factor of not always being in sync. Don't believe I've ever scene so much equipment work. I'll let those who feel they know the judges cover that issue, but I felt the corps was better last night overall. The right half of the brass section, had issues with their spacing during the final quick drill. Overall, it seemed to me their performance was better by all sections. There was a good crowd on hand and they responded well to all corps. Having the corps walk at least a half mile to the field was tough, especially for the pit with the grassy areas they had to push their gear. Real nice touch by the Crusaders to have a few members, in uniform, spend time at the souvenir location.

Other than putting a 15th place drum corps over Boston in GE Visual...... Sorry, but it DOES kind of jump off the page at you~

I'm not anti experimentation, I'm just anti suck! I don't think they understand their "failure" and therefore don't think it will lead to any success. $50 + is alot to pay to be a lab rat! Sometimes, the more you claim to have all the answers the less room you are given for experimentation and failure.

I dug it my man. I'm hip. It was my pleasure, I wish DCI could pick a bigger venue for the "St Louis" show (i use quotes because the venue is about 30mins outside of the Lou). I know there are bigger places around town to get more people in. The show was a near sellout in the stands, the lawn seating had a good representation. Lots of corps vets/alumni still in the STL area (Memorial Lancers, Belleville Black Knights, Millstadt Crusaders, etc.) and they come out in droves, which is cool. I wish we could get the funds together to possibly fund a "Sound Sport" corps in the coming years...plenty of talent in that area.

I felt bad cutting out on Colts show to see my MadMen. I think Colts show is enjoyable. We had some stick in the muds around us, who didn't cheer or show enjoyment for any show while we were there, at least. In front of us however, was a "cheer-er" who was anticipating every battery impact moment. It was great to see someone enjoying a show so much. I passed out some YNWA cards to those around us and asked them to sing along if they felt so compelled. From what I could see there was a small contingent of singing audience members. I thought Bones was the loudest of the night. I am not a fan of the soft ending, but I am really enjoying the show more than the beginning of the season. Heard in the stands: "The best was that Seattle group." "I can tell this group has too many flags." "This show is dark" about madison. Okay, sorry for any typos. I am on my phone. Headed to bed. Gotta drive to Wichita in the morning.

I can summarize what I feel is wrong, & how many Corps people who I know feel, in 2 words... Blue Devils.

Yes, I agree. Let's go in the way back machine and look at Gibbs' original proposal for the TOC shows. He promised, direct quote: Relevance, Quality, Value and Entertainment Fan engagement and participation Seamless integration of performance events Fast and tight show Fully Produced event beginning to end. No time not accounted for. With following pages about instant encores, warm up zones, small ensembles, blah blah blah. Is there any dispute that zero, zip, nada of this has been realized by the TOC? The only part that has been achieved is $$ the G7 do not need to split with others. The 2013 finale is symptomatic of the problems: it's actually less entertaining than the encore one of the top corps would provide if you went to a regular DCI show. I mean, what would you rather hear? The Cadets wailing away on Swing Swing Swing and Rocky Point, or two college vocalists singing Manilow with an over-large backup ensemble?

Voice overs can add to the show, instead of detract from it, as long as it is done tastefully and with a clear purpose (This has been stated numerous times on this site, yet some still refuse to give them a chance). And is BOA truly so bad? If you ever decide to sit down and suffer through a few shows, then you can see that there are some bands whose musicianship can equal that of many corps in World Class (and some that dare I say, surpass...) Watch bands such as James Bowie (especially 2011), Marcus, Avon (some years), Carmel, The Woodlands, etc. These are some of the best playing bands in the nation (and yes, I am including our precious Drum and Bugle Corps in this category as they technically are considered bands).

I like the Cadets show and the towers are sometimes used very well. But when the towers cover up parts of the forms to the point that brass players are playing into the fabric of the towers, I think that's a design error. And the movement of the towers is so sloppy, I have a hard time reconciling their high visual scores with what I see on the field. The drill itself is pretty incredible for July, but the towers are a mess.

you should send this to DCI

The entirety of the DCP World Class Corps Discussions forum, jammed into a single thread.

Just wanted to be the first to say "This will be fun!" I'm going to find some cover to hide behind before the bullets start flying.

Just so you know, msumello, your post was shared on the Santa Clara Vanguard Alumni group page on Facebook. It meant a lot to everyone to see that the Vanguard has touched your cousin and calls to her, or as we say, "The Vanguard chooses you." Vanguard is the absolute epitome of class this season. They just ooze class and passion and I know all alumni couldn't be happier. Thank you so much for sharing this story! btw - The Santa Clara Vanguard is also has a public page on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SCV

Troopers this year.

Regiment is no further back now than they were when they went on to win in 2008. I suspect there is more content to come in their show ...