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I don't think it was about nonbinary inclusion, because the word "racist" was used. However, that said, the behavior that was on display was/is absolutely toxic no matter how you look at it. It's just not the way to approach the topic/discussion. There were people of color on panels all season long. They're not the majority, but there are reasons behind that. The fact is the activity, while inclusive, is also exclusive. The majority of people of color in this country cannot afford luxuries, which let's face it, the marching arts are a luxury. That is fact. It's not needed to survive. How can we expect to have more diversity on the field, let alone on the panel, when the activity isn't accessible for all walks of life? I teach at a rural school, where the medium income for a family of 4 is below $20,000. I see kids walk away from the arts because their families can't afford it, which is why we don't do extravagant shows, so we can keep show costs down as much as possible. We charge a fee of $250, which can be fundraised, and more times than not is how the majority of our kids pay for their fees. We have kids of all walks of life, ethnicity, sexual orientation, etc. The majority of these kids will go on to have careers outside of the marching arts. Why? Because the likelihood of making a livable wage in the arts isn't high. My point is, there are so many variables when it comes to the inclusiveness in drum corps and the marching arts as a whole, that we can't narrow it down to just nonbinary or certain ethnicities not being welcome or represented in the activity. And with that, I will bow out from this topic at hand, because I know someone is going to have something to negative to say.

Have to agree with BK. Bad Optics.You cannot post a judging panel and suggest dci as racist. PLA is more than welcome to post but has to suffer the repercussions from the organization that has been employed.

I'm not a Blue Devils hater, but I can't remember the last time I re-watched one of their shows during the off season. I know how good they are, but there just aren't that memorable moments in their programs. I've come to accept that are 3 givens for every season. 1. Blue Devils will probably win 2. They will receive multiple perfect 10s in GE and Visual 3. The shows that I will watch over and over again throughout the year will come from the 2nd or 3rd place corps.

The judging diversity initiative was posted many times by DCI. Post last season and leading up to the deadline to apply. It was a strong effort by them to push for this and it paid off. For this season. And I hope it continues. That being said, I kind of understand not wanting to post a ton of updates on it. Mainly for the realm of a lot of judges like to keep quiet and the judges are actually told not to post anything on social media about being a judge to avoid conflicts of interest, rumored bias, etc etc. It’s a fine line to walk so I understand.

I appreciate this. This activity uses up some of us and then spits us back out the second we try to raise a valid concern. It's felt differently (if not doubly so) for those of us that fought against those additional barriers to access previously mentioned in order to merely participate. Additionally, in between the chewing up and spitting out there are even more barriers that eat away our patience. It's a slow career death by a thousand paper cuts. Again, I can't speak for the previous staffer in question as I don't know them and I'm not nonbinary, but I can relate from an intersectional perspective and add context. When there is no one in leadership who can't see the difference between being our own worst enemy and the extreme frustration of enduring aforementioned barriers, nothing can change. This is why representation in leadership matters so much.

I don't know about goals, but anecdotally, during finals week, there was an interview on the big screen with three "future DCI judges" who participated in training this season. If memory serves, they were one black guy and two white women. I'm not suggesting we've solved DEI, but it was nice to see. I feel that several of the corps are becoming more diverse, especially among instructional staff and instructional leadership positions. I'm hoping that trend continues to design staffs as well.

I wasn't aware about JDI. That's how quiet it's been (I don't do all the socials, but I come in here from time to time and subscribe to FloMarching - was formerly a staff member, now just a fan of DCI, so I wouldn't say I'm "in the know" but I'm also not "on the fringe"). I totally agree with the message they tried to send. I understand enough to know that I won't be able to comprehend the frustration they must feel because I haven't walked in their shoes. That's moreso the reason I don't want them to be their own enemy, because theirs is a voice and an experience that has a place in this activity. It's propelling us to talk about it, so a dialogue WAS started - at least there's that!

If there’s anything I’ve learned from working in this activity, posting in that manner, especially something as unprofessional as blocking a past employer, makes it very difficult to be hired in the future. Best of luck to them.

I largely agree with PLA, and have strong opinions on the activity as well. But on the rare occasion an organization is fool enough to bring me aboard, I recognize that everything I say/do can be considered a representation of my employer.

Innit that basically what Garden of Love was? 😅

They let a good duo go after 2022...

It was something that I had heard in 21 and mentioned a few times here on DCP. I had heard rumors that Cadets planned a pearl harbor show one year but scrapped it. A sunday in the park with George show and scrapped it. SCV 14 was supposed to be a circus show. Theres a litany of shows in 2020 that were supposed to be performed but never did. I know Boston had a show planned that will never see the light of day. Thankfully

I judged in the Garden State Circuit in the mid/late 70’s to early 80’s. One year in the 70’s the directors voted to have the judges use a National Linear concept in judging. That meant we had to judge every corps, even the very beginners, to the same standard as, say, the Blue Devils. That approach lasted about 2 or 3 weeks into the season, lots of corps were getting zeroed out on sheets, or close to it. The GSC held an emergency meeting and changed it to GSC linear immediately…oops! 😀

I do wish this were a place where I felt safe being in dialogue with you publicly about this, as I think we could have a pretty cool dialogue about it. Nothing negative here in response, but I will take it to DMs.

Totally agree! Have there been rules proposals or requested goals to be set to increase diversity in judge's panels? Was the CD or some other representative approached and asked to bring this up in DCI meetings? Was an open letter to DCI's board written, encouraging diversity in judge hires? Was the Diversity & Inclusion team from WGI consulted about how to get one started at DCI? I'm not suggesting these things didn't happen, just that there are pragmatic avenues to pursue. If all those avenues had been attempted, then their post might well have been needed.

This is my biggest critique of this past season and I’m 99% sure we’ll see a big step forward next season. The whole visual staff has resumes that are steeped in marching-intensive shows. Gonna be very cool to see what they come up with next season now they’ve established the bent-leg technique with the potential vets.

I didn't see that, because I didn't go looking for that. I'll fix the pronouns in my posts. Done.

Completely agree. Change doesn't come from being silent, but it also doesn't come from a poor choice of words on social media.

Yes and the latest is they posted a screenshot that PLA blocked Blue Knights. I agree with their strategy (PLA) of more inclusiveness, not their tactics. You can either be a part of the conversation, or you can finger-point and trash-talk, but it's hard to do both at the same time. Hopefully all directly involved can learn.

I’m ready for another opera. So much to do prop and story wise. Their last medal was Turandot. It was solid and easy to follow.

Not lamenting evolution. It is necessary, but some amount of control is needed. I heard a rumor that the mic’g would change for next year based on the BOA approach. Soloists can be mic’d, but no mass mic’g of voices throughout the ensemble. I hope that front sideline mic’g is still good. IMO, no other mic’s should be allowed on the field. Also, Max the amount of speakers a corps can bring out. These minor changes may help corps that don’t have a few hundred k to put into amplification and electronics to produce a milli vanilli production. Rein in amps and electronics to level the field for all corps. World or Open class. I would love to hear more of the natural sound of brass and percussion performed with less augmentation electronically or with sampling. If there are folks smart enough to create it, there should be folks smart enough to appropriately reduce it. Just my $.02.

I don’t think anyone would say the activity should not evolve. Obviously the rub happens when we discuss to what degree should things evolve? At what pace? Fans (including myself) don’t want to see the activity evolve to the point the activity is no longer recognizable. Seeing speaker arrays , miles of cable , non-members (as many as 5 people sometimes) manning soundboards, wireless mics for one horn player for each horn section (trumpet , baritone..etc.) to augment the overall brass sound and condenser mics covering the entire field is expensive completely detracts from what makes a drum corps sound unique compared to other musical groups/activities . There is always a breaking point to evolution and change and hopefully the powers at be will pull back a bit .

An old pastime was after a bar closed, hanging around the parking lot before heading to Denny's to chow down and singing drum corps tunes. About 8 of us tried to do the Bottle Dance one night. That was a major fail. So glad that was way before cell phone video was around.

Don’t sit on learning the Couchmen choreo! or do. I forget how it works but I’m pretty good at it now.

Evolve or die. (Don't forget, some dinosaurs learned to fly.) https://www.drumcorpsplanet.com/2012/06/inside-the-arc-its-just-not-drum-corps-anymore/

Giving my personal top 4 based almost exclusively on musical productions. Because it’s my list and I say so. 😎 1 - Crown - it took a good part of the summer, but the musical integration of the Jackson/Shah sound to an obviously already world class brass staff caught fire the final week. Everything about the musical program felt urgent and driven, with the perfect mix of that Broken City-ish ethereal nuance mixed with the utter brilliance and power that only Crown’s hornline can really bring to the field with something like Tristan and Isolde. Going into Finals week, this was my 4th favorite show out of the top 4. After Prelims, I was 100% sold on them and they just commanded the stage for me from the first note to the last. Can’t wait to see what another year’s growth as an overall design team brings them. Mike Jackson, you are a wizard sir. I’m still in mourning to not have Mike at BK with the home team, but Crown is the perfect spot for him to reach his full potential as a creative force in DCI. I just hope they create the continuity there and keep all those talented people together to carry out a cohesive vision for years to come. Speaking of… 2 - BD - Sigh…truth be told, this truly was my favorite show of the summer. I don’t think I’ve said that about a BD production - any BD production - since maybe(?) 2000. 2017 was close for me, though I was too much of a Vanguard honk that summer. But yeah, absolutely brilliant in every way. And musically just so….gah, ALL of it was so goooooooooodddd! The buildup and opening impact statement was the hype, JoJo was an absolute banger, once I learned the background of the French speech translation in the battery drum break it brought that whole section together and led even more dramatically into…the musical highlight of the summer. I’ll admit I was skeptical at anyone (even BD) bringing Joni Mitchell to the field and making it truly work. BD went so far above and beyond that. I literally have not been able to stop replaying it over and over in my head. Hope no one else is planning on trying Both Sides Now anytime soon - it belongs to the team from Concord now. Closing production took some time to really gel with the rest of the show but by LOS everything was seamless and the ending delivered the punch it needed to complete a truly special production. Also...BD BASS...sigh, you win dudes. 3 - Cadets - If the BD ballad was the #1 musical highlight of the season, the Cadets ballad was 1A. And on any given day, the two could switch spots for me. Hearing Cadets sound like CADETS again was one of the most welcome things of this season. From the first video I found of theirs from an early season rehearsal run, I was sold. They sounded ballsy and the drumline sounded like what I’ve come to expect from Cadets over 30+ years. Still some room to go to get back up on the footing with the medalist contenders (moreso visually, which still feels so weird saying about Cadets) but I’m down with this direction. Keep going. Oh, and flugel girl during Immortal…*chefs kiss* 4 - Cavaliers - Mike MacIntosh (and Clif Walker), you mad geniuses. Well deserved Sanford trophy, and the little nods to the past were inspiring to see woven in to the fabric of the book. Musically, the show was a touch uneven, and at times some of the more obvious comparisons to past memories didn’t come off as well to me as maybe I’d hoped they would - this was especially true with the turnaround Gloria impact at the start. I hear those backfield chords building, I’m bracing myself for that brass opening statement of 1990. This opening statement was...not that. (And yes, I know I know G - Bb - etc...don't @ me. My list!) But that's just a minor dinosaurish quabble of mine. Truth is, as I know many of you did as well, when I saw that first Flo-ivised performance of Cavaliers, my reaction was: "huh." That was pretty much it. Drums sounded really good, brass sounded completely out of breath, and the show itself seemed forced and disjointed. In the end, it was my mistake to write them off. Because along with Crown and - in my opinion, Blue Knights, who I also basically completely wrote off making it back into Finals after seeing them at Drums Along the Rockies - Cavies production was one of the 3 most improved shows start to finish in the Top 12. Each of those 3 shows grew in their own ways and on their own timelines, but the Green Machine just seemed to have something *click* into place when I watched the flo-cast for Atlanta. From that point on, it was clear to me they'd turned a corner, and the show just seemed to settle in and find it's way to be the best version of what it was meant to set out doing: honor the past with the nod to the future. There are SO MANY subtle little nods (and I'm just specifically talking musically, because of course the visual ones are all over the show as well) that it would be impossible to name them all. Aside from the obvious charts or trick like Gloria, WSS/Over the Rainbow, Niagara Falls, Casey Claw and such...one of my favorite spots was the little homage to the 98 ballad with the cascading mute brass line (originally from Phillip Sparke's Lento from "Dance Movements") this time with a similar effect by facing backfield as they led into the "Somewhere" portion of the show. Just really made me happy, as that's probably my favorite musical moment I've ever heard from Cavaliers. But my favorite super quick little nod was the snare/bass writing near the end of the opener, and it goes by in a flash - this is just before the mello/quad soli starts working across the field, at around the 3:55 mark of the Flo-cast (if, you know, you can recall that specific moment of where that was in your mind's eye, since it'll never be seen again). Brass hits a big chord resolution, and Snare/Bass hits the Mars rhythm 2x which leads straight into an (abbreviated) nod to the 92 tag!!! If any of you drummers grew up with DCI in the 90s like myself, this was the ending that was often simply referred to as the "Please Stand Up" tag. You know the one: Please Stand Up. Please Stand Up. PLEASE. STAND. UP. PLEASE. STAND. UP. PLEASE! STAND! UP! (to be clear, it was a joke and if anything it was mostly out of jealousy of them at that point anyway lol, besides everyone was already on their feet well before that anyway) Other random thoughts, because like someone else said the rest of the lineup is basically a tie for 5th for me: Has there ever been a stronger year in DCI for soloists?!?! Boston, Bluecoats, aforementioned Cadets, of course BD and Crown, Phantom. It just seemed like everyone was nails. I kept getting so nervous for that Boston girl because that's such a tough and exposed and extended and famous solo line from the Bernstein, until I finally just realized "oh, so she just...doesn't miss. Ever. OK cool." Then it was much more enjoyable to watch her on Finals night. Bluecoats blow my mind with some of the source material they turn into "Bluecoats" material. That ballad might be the most impressive feat I've seen them pull off yet. Listening to (being introduced to) Bon Iver, I had no idea how they were going to translate that onto the field. I couldn't have even imagined the moment they'd make out of that. So many other shows out there that I wish I could include just based on the musical productions alone...Mandarins (my body was not ready...good lord), Troopers, Crossmen, Pac Crest, Music City (yeah boys!) But in the end, even if it wasn't my favorite program they've ever done, I gotta give mad props to the home team for closing the deal and making it back to Saturday night. Blue Knights...it's been a long and winding road for 4 years now. Congrats on persevering (especially those of you who marched 2020-2022 and kept coming back) and making it back to Finals! Trust me when I tell you that you made me and my fellow alums so proud and happy for all the work you did, and thank you to the leadership and volunteers in Denver who have helped steer this organization through incredibly tricky times (yet again). As always, I Go On...

“Our previous design team (now at Crown North) leaned heavily to the accessible side.” K, the first time I heard you utter that expression at NB, I laughed my @ss off. Still laughing…

last year IMO was the great comeback. this year was the even better follow up

Doubtful Saucedo is going anywhere else than Cavaliers. The vibe this year (from the staffers I talked to) was completely different than the chaos last year, and corps management would be goofy not to want to hold on to him. Same with the percussion team: they have every reason to be happy, and happy people don't run away from home. Hope Rosemont can hold on to the guard staff, as they were an obvious upgrade over the last few years in terms of recruiting and teaching (most improved guard this season, and it's not up for debate). Visual design and brass instruction were the two weakest areas, and you'd have to believe they're looking at upgrades/changes in both areas.

This is what I recall as well.

It's simple. The name was changed from "Stoned" to "Awakening" because of the association "stoned" has with drugs. The name change, to my knowledge, did not change a single thing about the show. It was just a title change. Personally, I thought "Stoned" was a better title, and it's ok for words to have more than one meaning.

I got talking about flashbulbs in the Hornrank band forum remembering a Ben Davis (IN) show from the 80s when I marched against them and they were the "BD" of the ISSMA circuit. The response back was "do they even make flashcubes anymore?" and... searching around it seems not. Its probably one of those things you could give to current MMs and ask "what do you think this is?" and get some hilarious guesses.

I clicked on the wrong page - Our Team is not the same as Meet the Staff 🤦‍♂️

The largest action taken on the part of DCI was the JDI (Judging Diversity Initiative) that started last spring, but there haven't been any public updates about it. Here's where the rub is though, often across much of JEDI/DEI work: @Grandpa Joe raises important points about access to the luxury of participating in drum corps. Because of this alone, asking marginalized/vulnerable groups to do all of this additional unpaid work is a lot. This is often in addition to unacceptable treatment endured already in the workplace. Does it need to happen anyway? YES! Otherwise how will the activity get better? But it shouldn't be expected or demanded before people from these groups get frustrated and speak out on their own platforms with their own voices. If this person blocked their former employer, could it be (just possibly) because they endured treatment similar to those in my reports? IDK. That said, I don't know the nature of the person in question or the nature of their public voice. I'm speaking broadly from my experiences in other fields.

looking forward to see them continue to excel in 2024. One thing I hope for is a visual design that has more 'drill' focus (like 2022), and less scatter/body as visual moments. I know their music will be great!

They do it to themself and then wants to throw their self a pity party on social media. I agree with them, to a degree, but their tactics are horribly wrong.

As I marched this show I would love to see it revisited. And yes, it was a killer show.

Yet this season has had the most diverse judging panels as a whole than any other season. They made progress when it comes to judges as far as different demographics go and they continue to make strides to do so.

I love this topic. I marched in the hornline but am still suffering from colorguard envy. I taught myself flag and rifle and I'm pretty good, if I must say so myself. Sabre is crazy. They make it look so easy but I just can't do it. Anyway, I have a horrible video of me (from years ago) doing (or trying desperately to) the last minute or so of 1993 Star of Indiana. That flag work is sick throughout that show, but espeically the end. I worked so hard on it and it was honestly terrible.

INT = Intermission 😂

Marched 3 different Senior circuits and yep all 3 had different criteria for what was “ticable”. DCA had highest standards, ICA was more GE oriented and RCA was more forgiving on “less than perfect” execution. Did both DCA and RCA a few years in 1970s. Still remember Larry Hershman yelling at practice “it’s DCA this weekend, execute #### it, execute “.

have you watched them? they need revenue anyway they can get it

No, it would absolutely be a bad thing. Just look at how poorly AI tends to perform in other areas. Now apply that to DCI and tell me you honestly think it'll be better.

Tics were totally subjective. Was event X a tic or not? If so, did it warrant a group tic? How many tenths in that situation? Judges were taught to only mark tics for the section they were standing in front of. I was a percussion judge starting in the mid/late 70's. If I was in front of the snares, and I thought I heard a tenor tic, I could not mark it, since I was focused on the snares at that point. The judge field placement only worked when drills were not as complex as they became. Adding in the pit, tics were just no longer a valid way to judge the totality of the percussion performance.

I'm equally tired of the Uber intellectual crowd who militantly try to make things sound more important and grander than they are. Balance... My brain has earned me a couple of STEM degrees, but I don't try to belittle people who don't have that background. All these corps put immense thought into their shows. The difference between them is visual technique and getting judge buy-in, not artistic genius. Just my opinion...

Finally got around to watching finals night…been busy since coming home from Indy. my lord were they amazing!!!! Or should I say they are amazing. IMHO, most improved of the season. This show definitely peaked at Finals. lucky enough to be in Lucas Oil for this performance. Percussion well deserved Sanford, and how about that guard! Let’s give them a show design in ‘24 that competes.

Ima gonna go waaay back to 1985. Would love to se a redo of Symphonie Fantastique. That was a killer show.

If the legal system worked the way many of us hoped, we could have seen Cadets do a ‘Sunday in the Yard with George’ show…

Exactly! There is no doubt BD has a formula, anyone who is being objective admits that. But simplistic or easy… nope.