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About Bill Cook, I highly recommend you read these books. Ready, Fire, Aim! The Bill Cook Story II: The Re-Visionary I was there the first few years and saw everything. The design team, the admin team, the tour team, the board of directors all had people that had immense drum corps experience! Every year before we went on tour the whole staff went to Cook Corp for a luncheon and we heard his vision. I met Bobby Knight on multiple occasions and even went to the basketball game when he threw the chair. Mr. Cook was like an uncle to me. He was there when my father passed and was there when I was at Regiment, Blue Stars, and Crown. When he died, his son knew me by name and my story with Star. Tremendous people. The activity sorely misses Bill Cook's business acumen. If I had more room on the internet I could tell a very small fraction of all the stories of his giving to humanity... anonymously. He guided a 21 year young man and encouraged my personal business growth. He even wrote a letter of recommendation for me that I wish I still had. It would be in a frame in my office. I am not who I am today without the guidance of Bill Cook.

Absolutely! And ditto! Also, there are more than a few Star alums who joined the ranks of Cook Group and had (many still have) successful lifelong careers. It’s almost hard to believe, but the lore is Star of Indiana was born in the stands of Grant Field at Georgia Tech during ‘84 championships week. So, between mid-August and audition camps (just over three months later), Cook got the properties, the staff, the equipment, and an infrastructure in place to start rehearsals.

It is that group of seven directors to whom I refer. And, I doubt very much that some of the more conciliatory voices here would be so forgiving of the G7 egos if their lifelong corps had been in the crosshairs. Remember, in Boston's case, not only were they targeted by the G7, but later on when the 7 became the TOC 8 and BAC came in 8th, the rules were changed the following year to exclude the Crusaders. We don't WANT to see any corps go under, which is why Boston has quietly helped SEVERAL corps in recent years. Having said that, if the drum corps which you have been a part of for nearly 45 years had been through what ours has been through at the hands of such egos, you might not be quite so altruistic.

No need to overreact . The discussion here is about the “ G7 video “. As far as I know the thread topic was not even started by Craiga , LabMaster , Liahona , Fighterkit , nor any BAC alum nor fan . The thread was started by someone unaffiliated with the Corps . There is no “ vengeance “ sought , as events played out in methodical fashion since then . Sure it was karma , but it was never the intent nor the goal . The goal was to improve the Crusaders and make them better in all areas of operation , including marcher safety and marcher learning and enrichment experience . Not “ vengeance “.. Jeesh . None of the Corps Directors of the G7 are in their positions of Directorship from back then anymore anyway . It is they that have moved on , and relationships in DCI among all the Corps are much better today than they were back then . DCI is more collegial now among all the corps than those dark days where vengeance upon other corps was very real and very much a goal of a select few . But yes , time has moved on from this , and DCI is doing ok , even after the pandemic. The wounds have healed now among all the Corps . As near as I can tell anyway , Jurassic Lancer . Enjoy your weekend , by the way 👍

Bobby Knight- hmmmm True story - I did undergrad at Purdue in 1980s. Indiana is rival; to make life interesting father-in-law was IU faculty (his daughter went to Purdue). 1991ish living in San Antonio. They were visiting & watching IU game on TV. My 3yr old daughter saw Bobby Knight on TV & says “Daddy says that man is the Antichrist.” Perfect timing. Wife not pleased.

I think that’s a valid point perhaps overlooked too . 8 Corps is an even number , where you could have 4 corps before intermission , and 4 after intermission . So why 7 ? Well the G7 chief architect Hopkins did not want to include the Crusaders as he liked them far better when they were essentially an east coast unpaid feeder corps to his east coast Cadets for 2 decades . He liked that arrangement as they were 16th-30th in most of those 2 decades . But when he concocted his G7 scheme , the Crusaders had risen up the ranks and were sitting a bit better in the 5th-10th range most seasons . What better way then to bury the Crusaders or put them back to a non Finalist Corps and with no future threat to his Cadets than to exclude them from his G7 scheme ? Ironically , had Hopkins asked the Crusaders to join up with his idiotic , ill thought out plan , the Boston Crusaders would have declined it anyway I’m told as they did not trust him as far as they could throw him on just about anything . As future events played out, his character was revealed so no need to go any further on that I would imagine . Now fast forward , and the Cadets and the Crusaders both have come through that sad saga period well, and have far better relations with new mgt there … as have most all the other Corps come thru that period well . DCI is alive and kicking today principally because Corps like the Boston Crusaders and the other non G7 Corps stood their ground, and the other G7 Corps in due time abandoned the G7 scheme and with Hopkins later summarily sent packing by DCI . Finally, No need to go over how Boston has most recently helped a few former G7 Corps financially and otherwise when they needed help during a difficult stretch . Craiga alluded to it above , and we can just leave it at that . Enjoy your Labor Day weekend fellow DCP’ers, and best of success and enjoyment to all the Corps and fans at the DCA Championships this weekend !👍

There is an important distinction to be made here. The general sentiment from bystanders and anonymous accounts here seems to be - yes, we have moved on to some degree. But we need to learn from the lessons of history. You can forgive, but I would not recommend forgetting. Sorry to say that those historical reminders can be dark in spots. How corps operate day-to-day is an entirely different subject. Nowadays, no one motivates based on "karma" or "vengeance". Those words do not appear in press releases, or in recruiting materials. They are not preached by staff at rehearsals. They are not uttered by corps members. They are not mentioned in post-show interviews (not even by Dan Potter). There are no G7 dolls with pins stuck in them laying around on corps busses. The drum corps experience of today is about achieving artistry and excellence in parallel with other groups doing the same.

Watched 2018 SCV tonight. Man, hoping PR can get a similar brass book out of JD next year. Wow

Oh man! When I realized the 2023 Cavies show was really about the historical music and drill moves of the Cavaliers shows of years past...mind blown.

I would say that the show definitely called out the kill joys of DCI.

I am indeed not affiliated with BAC. Big fan of them, but that’s it. I merely shared the video because it popped up on my YouTube and I always wanted to support whomever the content creator is as they are putting more content out there. Just thought since it was being resurfaced on YouTube, I’d share it here. Nothing more, nothing less.

Very kind of you to say. Thanks and be well.

no one is driving you out except for your posting style.

OMG! I just realized Boston's show was about Moby Dick, you guys!

These recollections are amazing you all were part of a great legacy, not so sure about Bobby Knight, but can we get back on topic?

pretty sure he means the people, not the actual corps

then Paradise was Lost

Robert Blake is out at Cascades.

100%!

I’m not a big fan of comparing scores from decade to decade. Rules change, corps change and scoring systems change. 10 years from now who knows what things will be. Maybe drones will be part of the a show.

And Priests in black gowns, were walking their rounds, And binding with briars,my joys & desires.

The devil (not the blue one) is often in the details.

These two sentences here just come off as bitter, and as if you want the other corps to die off so that BAC has a beeline to the Founders Trophy. You said it yourself, without those corps that make up the G7, DCI would likely have died off by now. Either you want that to happen or not, I'm honestly not sure. Clarification would help, because these two sentences contradict everything that you said prior to them.

based on what Mac said on the Aged Out Podcast Aungst is to be back

So correct me if I am wrong (being wrong is my natural state) I thought we have moved on from the dark days of the G7 proposal. But for karma to be satisfied, Cadets, BD, Bloo, Crown, Phantom Regiment, Cavaliers, as well as SCV should all die ignominiously and have their corps halls salted like Carthage? Would that be what karma demands in 2023? Wow … I never realized that vengeance is the prime motivator for certain corps. Vengeance is small and unsatisfying. Maybe it’s time for me to sell my Super 3 tickets, stop donating, and call it a day.

again whatever he does out of here has zero bearing on what happens here. if you post something here and something happens elsewhere...well...maybe reconsider what you post here. not a hard concept.

In the history of Worst Ideas Ever, G7 ranks right up there with New Coke, Cop Rock and the Hindenburg.

In one of those few times we agree 🤝. Every SCV topic ends the same and then a mod closes because it's just back and forth attacks. Every topic is around the same 3 people saying the samethings.

Thanks for churning this up again. Can you two go fight in private and leave the rest of us alone?

Abandon hope all ye who enter here.

2023 was the first time in over 30 years that I was not a DCI spectator in any way, shape, or form. I didn't go to any shows. I didn't go to Big, Loud, Live in the theater. And I didn't purchase video performances (live streams now, replacing the DVDs and VHS tapes of yore). Because the drum corps atmosphere--not the corps themselves, but the overall drum corps environment--has gotten truly, stiflingly... Boring. 1992 was the year I was introduced to DCI. 1993 was the year I became a super-fan. I think I still have those 1993 tapes memorized. In 1993, the build-up style of judging was only about a decade old. I remember the interviews with Jeff Fiedler and Gene Monterastelli on those tapes, and Monterastelli in particular pointing out the big flaw of the tick system: it was beating down corps trying new things in favor of corps who weren't doing as much stuff but were doing it cleaner. And it really did lead to a revolution in drum corps design. From 1988 to 1992, five years, there were five different champions with five different and distinct styles. And 1993 promised to continue that trend: Cadets, Star of Indiana, and Phantom put out three fantastic drum corps shows that were completely and totally different from one another. It was an exciting era. It was partly because you didn't know who was going to win from year to year, but even more so because you didn't know HOW that corps was going to get to the top. The Blue Devils won in 1994, 1996, and 1997 with three entirely different show designs. Ah, the Blue Devils. So much dislike of that corps and resentment of their recent success from the peanut gallery. To hear some people talk, the Blue Devils are everything that is wrong with modern drum corps. And that's KINDA right, but probably not in the way you'd expect. The 2005 Blue Devils changed drum corps probably even more than 1993 Star of Indiana did, though it's not recognized as such. After that lackluster season (by their standards), the Blue Devils changed. The Blue Devils have the smartest design staff in DCI, have for a long time. 2005 made them re-evaluate everything they did in show design, whether it was a conscious decision or a subconscious recognition of reality, I do not know. But the Blue Devils were the first, the fastest, and the best at recognizing what DCI judges do and do not want, and they simply trimmed everything outside of that from their shows going forward. They found the one major, hard and fast rule of modern DCI judging and had it pretty much locked in by 2007. They've finished 1st or 2nd (by tiny margins) every year since. What is this magic rule that the Blue Devils learned over 15 years ago, that other corps either haven't figured out or refuse to abide by? Simple: THERE IS NO EXTRA CREDIT IN DRUM CORPS. There's no extra credit! Don't do anything you can get away with not doing if you want to score well. Judges want variety of demand and cleanliness, the Blue Devils provide that in spades every season (it's usually the SAME variety of demand... but I get ahead of myself. More on that in a moment). Anything beyond that, difficulty for difficulty's sake, is just going to drag your score down unless you can get it as clean as the Blue Devils. Which, let's face it, you probably can't. Look at 2023. The Bluecoats had, in this idiot's opinion, a lot more visual difficulty in their show. But the Blue Devils were LOADS cleaner. The miniscule spacing and timing problems that popped up here and there in the Bluecoats' show simply weren't present in the Blue Devils' show. And, of course, the Blue Devils guard was near flawless. I think corps feel the need to try to do MORE than the Blue Devils to beat them, but I think it's the exact opposite. They need to do LESS, and make it CLEANER. The Build-Up judging system has fallen into the same pitfall the old Tick system had: it is beating down corps trying new things in favor of corps who aren't doing as much stuff but were doing it cleaner. Full circle. Now, this next sentence will probably surprise you, so I hope you are sitting down. I love the Blue Devils. Seriously. 1994 Blue Devils remains one of my Top 5 shows of all time. I CHOSE to audition for the Blue Devils over any other corps (back when I had that youthful naivete that hid from me just how awful of a visual performer I was). And I love the Blue Devils design concepts. I just wish it weren't pretty much the same thing, year after year after year. The same staging concepts. The same visual elements. The Blue Devils are a truly awesome sports car, but all they do is change the paint job each year. Because they know (consciously or subconsciously) they can't do much else without getting hammered for it. Who's to blame? The Blue Devils? DCI judges? I feel it's kind of a chicken and the egg situation. On one hand, the Blue Devils have heavily influenced the course of DCI judging. On the other hand, many of their design features became mainstays solely due to positive reinforcement from the judges. I would absolutely LOVE to see what the Blue Devils staff would come up with if the judging system gave any signs at all that something different would be acceptable. Even the most recent non-BD champions (2018 Vanguard and 2016 Bluecoats) have strong Blue Devils influence on their design styles. And that's why 1993 and the years surrounding it remain such a fond memory for me. Sure, those G bugles sounded dreadful, and even the top corps made performance fracks that you wouldn't see or hear in ANY finalist corps today. But year after year after year you not only had no idea who was going to win, you had no idea HOW they were going to win. Cadets' style? Star of Indiana's style? Phantom's style? Blue Devils' style? But today, there is only one winning style: the Blue Devils' style. All other styles have been judged and found wanting. Everyone is trapped. Even the Blue Devils. And that makes drum corps boring. ************** "It is better to remain silent at the risk of being thought a fool, than to talk and remove all doubt of it." --Maurice Switzer "Hold my beer." --Hostrauser

I don't disagree in part. There is definite financial risk in diversifying and some of that is how quickly you grow and expand that programming. As a grant writer I urge nonprofits NOT to seek out a grant you don't have an existing program for unless you are pursuing R&D and seed awards for well developed programming plans. I can't tell you how many times I have had someone come to me with a grant opportunity we would have to create a program for. No thank you. That's how you over extend your future revenue and personnel and risk running afoul of your grant award requirements. I could go way down a rabbit hole about grant writing in this activity but it would be a huge non-sequitur. What came first the full time director/CEO or more expensive/expansive programming? That's a chicken/egg question I guess. But yeah, when you have orgs pulling in Millions (and also spending Millions) the responsibilities of the CEO to create and maintain revenue earning relationships definitely becomes a full time responsibility.

Both things can be true at the same time. I think the BOD is downright terrible at what they do and there should be consequences for their mismanagement. There is substance in the content and documentation within his posts that are valuable. It doesn’t justify the routine online harassment of various people who aren’t in decision making positions, the threatening to dox dissenters, and the aggrandizing self-insertion. Between what he posts here and multiple times daily on various alumni pages, he routinely crosses the line between simply trying to hold the BOD accountable, and doing anything and everything to personally burn down the organization and tear down whoever gets remotely in the way.

Gotcha. So it feels like you want to hurt SCV because they hurt you. And rather than working with them in a way that the organization deems acceptable, you prefer to torch the organization down since they didn’t interview you in 2019 or take you up on your offers in the last year or two (based on previous comments in SCV alumni FB). Generally speaking, I’ve followed your content since SCV announced last year and mostly agree with your points. But the approach of torching isn’t going to help your opportunity to convince SCV you can help them. Unless your end goal is helping to officially end SCV ever fielding a corps again.

There it is, this explains SO. MUCH. Just because you know facts and figures does not mean you will be a good leader of an organization. Your conduct and attitude on here is so unbecoming of someone who would be in that role and you continually prove on here that SCV's board did at least one thing right in not even giving you an interview.

Nope....It was not an attack. Just some advice that hubris and centering can deaden efforts and turn off audiences. BUT I will address Richard's "why" from a few pages back concerning Purging the leadership at SCV. That is increasingly difficult from an outside position. Now, some may know the details better and I'm honestly glossing over this a bit for truncation but in 2018 when Cadets/GH blew up and DCI stepped in (something grossly missing here), I believe DCI mandated a restructuring of the BOD in order to maintain membership. This is not something DCI does with every org as they did not require this of SOA and I can't speak to PIO or Troop. Back to Cadets, Doug Rutherford stepped in as interim BOD Chair to start rebuilding the BOD and org. What I don't know is who selected him. Was it DCI? Was it a current member of the BOD? Was it a collaboration between DCI and the "mandated to exit" board of directors? Either way, without DCI's involvement, I doubt that BOD would have left en masse. And that is the case at SCV, without a clear mandate by DCI for BOD restructuring at SCV, the existing BOD members that haven't left on their own accord will stay in place and build around them. What I question is whether or not they have the knowledge and self awareness to expand their board with the CORRECT people and skill set. The alarming issue to me is the SIZE of their current board. 8 people is not enough. They are most likely spread thin. They need to be triple that if they are going to run 2 corps, bingo and whatever else they need to do to be fiduciarily responsible and fix the issues. Running that small is just a way to let things fall through the cracks as they have been.

I'm incredibly hesitant to wade into this but I'm going to address a couple of things that popped out to me. More just a curiousity than anything else. 1- SCV's new treasurer is in North Carolina and you point at that as a bad thing. My organization's board is literally scattered across the country. Our Treasurer does NOT live in the same state as the Org. As a matter of fact, MOST of the board doesn't live in or near the home base of the org. It's a digital zoom kind of world and access to financials and the ability to do a job well no longer demand you be in town where the office is so I do question why you paint their location as a detriment as they are not in CA like the old treasurer apparently was. Especially since (IMO) the old treasurer catastrophically failed at their job. 2. The hiring and firing of Brett B- I'm surprised you didn't bring up his past involvement with his BFF's dalliances with a member of their community theatre that got him in hot water (once again IMO) far more than the rumors circulating that he wanted to disband the A corps. In fact, the theatre drama only exposed a lack of due diligence on the part of the hiring committee that to me was a bigger issue. 3. (or maybe 2.5) Also in regards to the hiring and firing of Brett B- Drum corps as a hiring practice is incredibly nepotistic and full of cronyism. We all talk about back room deals. Everyone has a friend that would be perfect and half our design staffs bring their own down chain staff. As orgs transition from kitchen table drum corps to fully realized multi-million dollar Non profits with not only a touring group but community centric programming, educational programming, and god knows what other revenue earning ventures, your buddy from Black Knights or whatever may no longer be qualified for the job. It forces organizations to diversify and look outside the bubble. Hiring Brett B the person turned out to be a disaster. But hiring a CEO that had a performance education and theater background was not so outside the box for an org like SCV that had been expanding into community rooted performance ensembles beyond the A and B corps. Phantom Regiment just hired a CEO that has little to no experience in Drum Corps but comes with OODLES of experience in revenue diversification and Youth Education programming. This is a good fit for an org trying to expand revenue streams and community programming while re-establishing its roots and involvement in Rockford. Build a team around her to worry about the nuance of drum corps. Maintain a supportive BOD that can guide and support someone like her successfully and the fact that she came from outside of drum corps won't matter. 4. Lastly, I understand you're wanting to bring this all to light. But your ego is a turnoff. I don't care that you are tired, or numb, or feel like your website move should get more attention. Do it for the work and less for your standing. When you insert yourself and what recognition you think you should be getting for all of this, it's a turn off and makes me thing you are doing this more for your own grandstanding and less for the good of the organization as you claim.

You have the sequence of events shuffled. The 2004 TOC was merely an idea to give the west coast a chance to see drum corps in late season for once, and IIRC part of the vetting process for the brewing campaign to bring championship week to California in 2007. The G7 came later (2010). The subsequent TOC series starting in 2011 was designed to placate the G7 (who were still threatening to break away from DCI).

I'll take a stab at this but it's all experienced/educated guess work. Incoming wall of text and accusations of dominating the topic despite no one else answering these questions. The letter means that the delinquencies have not been adequately addressed by VMAPA up until the release of the letter, dated a few days ago. If they have been addressed by VMAPA, then the DOJ still followed some kind of protocol and sent the letter anyway. Minimally this action broadcasts to citizens of the state of California that they are still in delinquency of requirements to operate as a charity. Once they clear the delinquency, they will own fines. If I'm being generous, this is a formality at best and situation is being handled, as indicated by 2nd hand communications via the alumni association, not made formally public at this time. If I'm not being generous, then VMAPA has not addressed the delinquencies since the first letter was sent to them in 2021. Again, contents in the letter indicate continued delinquency status, meaning they cannot solicit or disburse donations. Fortunately, it does clarify that they don't need to cease operations, which I find a relief, as previous communications indicated to me that this was a possibility. Alas, though, a nonprofit not serving its mission (ie not field a corps) nor soliciting donations is barely a nonprofit anymore. My concern is that they're just what the former CEO indicated they were: a bingo business with a drum corps side hustle. 😔 The resignation of the board treasurer is very concerning to me. This means there is no financial officer-voting member/volunteer anymore working to keep the finances in check. The CFO/former board president/former board treasurer is still there, but just to be clear: best practices indicate that paid executives in nonprofits should be nonvoting members of the board because they draw salaries. To be a voting member would be a conflict of interest, and merely sitting on the board can been as one too. I don't know if this officer is voting, but with dwindling board numbers, I just wanted to be clear. See here: https://www.councilofnonprofits.org/running-nonprofit/governance-leadership/board-roles-and-responsibilities and here: https://form1023.org/nonprofit-board-of-directors-officers-members-explained Specifically: "Non-voting Officers of a Nonprofit Corporation Nonvoting officers positions are generally paid positions, meaning that non-voting officers of a nonprofit are employees of the organization, not policy makers. Because they get compensated by the board, they have a conflict of interest to sit on the nonprofit board of directors." CFO is listed on the BOD page of the website. and, alternatively: "Nonprofit board members which are the leadership class cannot be compensated and be paid salary for their board duties, not a single black penny. ... You cannot in any shape or form compensate these voting class as you will lose your tax exemption, period." This is all made worse by few alumni monitoring the situation who are well-versed in nonprofit governance, so someone like me is kept at far away. Easy to agree that the board is handling it when you don't know what a board is supposed to look like from top to bottom. TLDR: Nobody knows what it means except the current board because next steps aren't being communicated out yet. Simplistically put, they still can't solicit or disburse donations. It is additionally concerning that the board treasurer has resigned during this difficult time. The BOD is already so small and has been bleeding members in the last five years. Lots of rotation of leadership roles within the BOD and consistent rotation of some of them into what should be nonvoting officer positions.

Kinda reminds me of Cavies 2023.... lol!

In all due respect, it is not just repeating key words. It was taking that motif, and repeating it over and over and over until we feel beaten over the head with it. Bluecoats 2023 could have been my favorite show of the year, and might still be. Still be. Still be. Still be. Still be. Doug Thrower has done a lot in nearly 40 years of arranging for drum corps, but the music in this show may be his finest work of them all. Them all. Them all. Them all. Parroting words alongside a musical rhythm was cute the first time, and still okay the second or third. Third. Third. Third. But when is enough enough enough enough enough enough?

The 2023 Bluecoats show was based on a poem that was about the repression of organized religion. Not drugs.

The show may have been “Alice in Wonderland”-esque, but that wasn’t what it was about. It may have been trippy, but it wasn’t about drugs. It was bringing to life the Wm. Blake poem that was quoted throughout the show. Now it is fair to debate the meaning of the poem, but it was not about drugs.

I think you are wrong on both counts. 2022 Bloo May have been more drug related than 2023. Boston was not about BD. At all.

dcp can be so weird

Lol at the "GH" appearing on the video during the wicked games clip where they throw the one lady into the fire.

I mean purely speculative. But the whole Ahab (Boston) going for the white whale (First place at finals/ taking on BD). That first place trophy being that feat they are trying to reach. They killed the white whale every night until finals where they allowed the white whale to win (BD winning again).

Personally I saw it as a tale about how the white whale is the competitive nature of the activity. How chasing a better placement or competitive ranking can cause you to lose yourself in the process. I'm sure we can think of examples where in order to move up higher in placements corps decided to change their identity and lost part of themselves. Or corps that have decided to stay true and not stayed competitive. Never really saw it as anti-BD

First live drum corps show: 1980 Finals Been to every Finals since 1983 (including Celebration year in 2021) - 1984 and 1986 were as a member of Phantom Regiment. 41 years in all!