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some days I read DCp and wish I did more

or in reality, they meet the criteria on the sheet. shocking I know

It's good to hear these organizations are teaching class, humility, kindness and respect.

I know several alums of SOA, one who is in a particular position to know and do something about things. This person dedicated money to Spirit when all logic said they shouldn't. This isn't about logic though... it's about passion, loyalty, and family. My wife and I set aside a percentage of our income every year to donate to charity, and now every penny of that I can spare will be going to SOA. There aren't many activities left that instill the positive traits in youth that drum corps does. When Little League teams cheat to win and high schools illegally recruit football players to win 1 or 2 extra games, I look to support anything that will help kids learn about hard work, dedication, perseverance, and loyalty.

It's really chicken & the egg. I have no allegiance to Spirit (in fact, Regiment gets most of my love and support). But - I do know if we all sit on the sidelines and wait to see what happens, the corps will miss the very support needed to move forward. I for one am tired of losing World Class Corps - especially those with a heritage & tradition like SOA. Harvey

Anytime you see a Nielsen "rating" it is the number of viewers to the average minute in the telecast. Some minutes may have had more viewers. Others may have had less, but if you average all the minutes, that is what the figure is expressing. It is done that way because, traditionally, advertisers wanted an estimate for the number of people who could potentially see their ads. There is an alternate measure called "cumulative viewers" which could measure "number of people watched for at least 1 minute or 6 minutes" or whatever, but that is not being used here. Viewing in bars is not measured. It is considered "bonus". But, it is too hard to quantify and there are a lot of questions about whether the sound is on(it often isn't) and whether people are actually watching. Yes, it's statistics and statistics is a science. If DCI had to purchase the airtime rather then have ESPN pay for the rights, it illustrates the problem. I'm sure college lacrosse or flyfishing has to purchase airtime to get aired. Have a network purchase the rights--it doesn't have to be ESPN--and let them worry about selling advertising. Most advertising on cable networks is sold "run of schedule" anyway. For ESPN2, it wasn't even poorly rated. Out of 157 telecasts on the network that week, DCI ranked 16th. It had more viewers than a WNBA Play-off game and more viewers than Major League Soccer games. I'm sure the WNBA and MLS don't have to pay to get airtime. ESPN buys the rights to air it and pays for the production. Maybe DCI should have hired a sports agent to handle this. There are so many small TV networks desperate for content now.

Considering that the show field is at the location of Middle School, not the High School and is essentially like Kennedy Stadium, a distinct and different location than just a school facility, I don't see how one could connect the show to the firing of the band director in any way, other than to try and create drama.

Wow! How did you manage to get a pic of Fran's closet?

There are many who felt the white pants would have been a scoring benefit with the drill they had this year.

Or would you just bye more of those shirts

While I have ALWAYS been of the mindset that a corps' organizational and strategic plans are their own, I do have one point of contention with the philosophy you and maybe others state. You seem to stipulate that "being competitive" (in what I assume from your context you mean to be ranking-wise competitive) and "having fun and entertaining the crowds" are potentially mutually exclusive. I don't think that is the case at all. From most accounts marching Blue Devils is extremely 'fun,' and they even entertain the crowds some years while being competitive enough to score the highest score of all time (as they did with a seemingly crowd-pleasing 2014 program). Crown had a similarly popular show winning DCI in 2013 (and almost winning this season), Cadets in 2011, Phantom in 2008, etc. Those are extremes, and "winning DCI" is by no means the ONLY definition of competitive success. SCV was wildly popular in 2013 and 2014 with their Top 5 shows. Madison Scouts in 2011 (among other years) were the talk of the season, and not just because their closer was forbidden and not included in archives. Bluecoats have had historic success for their organization with a 2nd place finish in 2014 performing an EXTREMELY popular show, and third place in 2015 with another popular show in 2015. Blue Knights seemed to entertain the crowds this year with their Top 6 show, and Cavaliers pleased the crowds in 2014 while placing 6th. But maybe Finals is not necessarily the end-all definition of competitive success either. Colts and Troopers seemed very popular in 2014 playing populist music (with Colts doing Pink Floyd, a band with one of the highest-selling albums of all time). Academy played 15th this season playing Mary Poppins music! Even one of the most non-Finalist shows in recent memory came from Semifinalist Jersey Surf's "Bridgemania" throwback a few seasons ago! I don't think you'd find many casual Surf fans who would want the corps to radically change design philosophy. I do think you'd find many fans who would prefer Jersey Surf did a better job designing a populist show. Their brass and percussion scores at Prelims out-scored their overall score, which could be a sign that they have talented members who are lacking a better designed show (though their Vis. analysis might also indicate that they have serious visual deficiency that is holding them back, IDK). But the overall point I'm trying to make is "competitive success" and high achieving + "entertaining fan-friendly" are NOT mutually exclusive and acting that they are is often an indicator that one is not ready to address and solve real problems

Often because you have hit a point in adulthood that the trivial crap just doesn't matter anymore. Real life has a way of beating you down to a point where you circle the wagons in because you have realized you can't make everyone happy all of the time, BUT if you can manage to do things that make you and the ones closest to you happy, that is all that matters.

I'm rooting for you Spirit! And signing up for the recurring $20 monthly donation was easy. I'm glad I did it & I encourage fans to vote with their wallet too. Harvey

I don't think there's a delicate way to put this so... Do they care about competitive success? Honestly, it's all well and good to say "we take good care of the kids" and "we just want to be entertaining" but as a world class corp, do they feel any responsibility to the members about the corps approach to competition. They are NOT the same as Pioneer. It's not an altruistic program for pretty young performers. And their history *before* they moved to World Class shows a definite upward trend year to year. But since they've moved up, there's a perception (right or wrong) that competitive success is just not a high priority for the program. I'm not talking about being a finalist corps. Maybe just making the cut to Friday night? It's just -- disappointing.

Oh, I wasn't doubting the number posted initially. I was just quoting something from DCI I ran across that talked about the show.

Hello DCP! It's been interesting reading through the forums and gaining insight into shows and design among other things. Really enjoying this. I have been attending the DCI SW Champs in SA for 10+ years. I have always wished that I could somehow become familiar with a show before I went to SA. I have never purchased a DCI Live (fannetwork) package until this year. Makes a big difference! My next goal is to join a Friends of DCI group so I can go to my first Finals. I'm kinda spoiled though, as I do love sitting in the good seats. Does anybody know of such a group I could join so I could get some tickets? Any help is greatly appreciated. So glad to be here... :-) Omar

WTH? Jeesh, lighten up Francis. One of the two baris (whom I called "smart") has already replied. Molehill, meet mountain.

15 years ago as a staff member I was told to stay off of RAMD. I said F off. the reasoning was, if I said anything about our corps, it could be considered overhype. if I said anything about another corps, it could be considered bashing. the issue isn't what the member says, it's more one of how others perceive what's said, and we know on RAMD and DCp, no one EVER interprets something to create drama where there isn't any

As a point of clarification, I quoted "viewers", not households. Households can have more than one person watching at the same time... and that was the case here.

Cadets 2000 (wait...), 1998, 1997, 1996, 2007 (primarily the end of 2007 show) Crown 2012, 2013 BD 1996 SCV 1999, 1998 Cavaliers 1995, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2006 I played trumpet.

"On the field, from Fort Mill, TX... The Crownssmen!"

I retired from that school as a supervisor 11 years ago...... what I wouldn't give to be working on teacher schedules and look out my window to see KS on MY field.......

Boy you are obsessed arent you. Just because i hit a like you assume alot ( as usual in brasso land ) You comment on other's when they hit the like button? Yeah I thought not...lmao I would completely question how many even watched who were not exposed to the activity. if it in fact was alot of new people it may have survived. Now, you also seem like you believe your government in whatever they say, etc etcjust because it's written or someone said it. lol. . jeff may not always be right in my eyes but i would at least question what he might say rather than the queen of googled information. Someone who has actually done. deserves at least that. Bari girl i might hear out . One one thing. DONT DRAG ME BACK INTO YOUR KOO- KOO CRAZY...THANK YOU

Note1 thanks for the notes bud. i hope you don't think I was calling you out. I wasn't. I like yours in that i think you cover a mix of both, and you give a great sample of what happened. I just remember reading the drum corps paper when it came out on tour and always seeing the same stuff over and over. So it kind of made me think why bother even writing on it? But I can always pick something great out of your reviews that i didn't see. Note 2. I do understand the history in that DCA corps were originally the powerhouse groups. You had lots of 22-35 year olds doing more, and could do more because in that day, Sr corps was for people who've been playing, either in corps or on their own. While Jr corps were kids learning to simply play music. Junior corps was originally for kids and beginners. And as design and DCI changed things, Jr corps became the frontrunner on innovation and demand, and in some aspect I think DCA is now the entranceway to drum corps. Part of that changed because of touring, part of it became DCI taking things away from VFW or Legion's operating shows. i still think DCA has a value because there was always something about seeing these shows on video that made these more accessible. Not just music wise, but overall thematically. And now I see it as many groups are fighting to keep the doors open. (Whether they look it or not) If you can't produce something kids want to pay to become a part of, they find something else to do. If kids can't see a challenge in the summer circuit that's tougher than what they already do in the fall, it's hard to attract them. And last year we had lots of shows that accomplished entertainment, art, and challenge while still being cleanable in the time allotted. Which this year, i think things are a little different. Some of the shows just aren't designed for the time schedule. Weekends only allow so much time to improve, and the demand and content of shows are alienating the seniors. Someone made a comment about lots of dirt still on the field in mid august, which I'm guessing isn't normal.

I also live in Atlanta and think the new stadium is a massive boondoggle.

Then Fred and Lillian found out a way to cut down the amount of driving to DCA shows. ....that is if Westshore was to be at the same show..... How they put up with our "stuff" on those trips is still beyond me.....

I'm sure there are more concerns than this.

Trust me... that's not too far off the mark!!!

I thought ISIS destroyed Palmyra? Oh . . . . THAT Palmyra.

On the bright side, 50% of corps are above average too. I can show you the math on this if you are interested.

having seen the new sheets when DCI published them a few years ago, judged on them in a band circuit, and talked to some people that judge it for DCI, I'll disagree. I think the current sheet is probably the most connected to the audience of any I've ever seen. While I agree DCI could do more to explain the sheet and philosophy being used and applied, you'll still have that misconception. effect is more than just cheering ot tears of joy or your heart strings being pulled. Does the music make sense in how it's connected to the visual aspects? Are the performers bringing the ideas to life? is it engaging the judge, making them focus, listen and dig for more? things like that. remember, judges are fans too. They don't want to be bored. having seen every world class corps this summer, there was only one show that i had no connection too and that watching it after seeing it talked up on here, facebook, etc and reading the program notes made no sense. But honestly......even if you break it down in laymans terms...people will think it should be whoever gets the loudest cheers

That's correct! We have to maintain the kids, establish strong funding, and build the alumni membership.

But in a couple of years, the Georgia Dome will be a parking lot. It's scheduled for demolition as soon as the new stadium next door opens.

The truth is, all of the active manufacturers make a good product. None are without fault, but they are all several orders of magnitude better than what was offered in the past, save maybe the King K-bugle line. Any time someone says, "Manufacturer X is crap" about today's horns, I immediately think of Hitchens's razor.

Pfft. Eight hours to rehearsal is no big deal, for one or a small group. Eight hours to a show, via buses for 120+ people? That's hard.

Search "The G-7 Report"

Here's what I don't get: If the corps administration, staff and marching members are happy with the status quo (ie entertaining light-hearted shows that are less competative than those who "take themselves more seriously") then why should they change anything? Where does it say that in order to be a world class corps going on a full summer tour that you need to compete to move up the ladder or you shouldn't bother to show up?

When I review, I feel the need to be reasonably diplomatic. Even when I have been, an individual got banned for their responses to something I said and tried to pick a fight. I guess some folks would have quit after that. I've dealt with worse. Let's put it this way. there are a certain few folks in this activity on the Corps and scholastic end of things that caused me to lose all the sincere respect I did have for them after 15 to 30 seconds of their antics. They all knew better. They're all adults. I don't sit and wait for apologies. Part of it is this: If you looked at my notebook for a show, there's usually a laundry list of performance issues. Other people do execution/performance critiques here in far more detail, why repeat? I also figure the Judge's sound files also cover it. The corps members get all of that from the judges and the staff left and right all day. It can be a freakin' drag. Been there. Done it. When I go to a DCA show I'm paying to go in and enjoy myself and see some solid performances and look and see if I find some new ideas that are thoughtful and interesting. I'm not being paid that night to provide cogent and incisive critique. There is a serious difference. I sort of pattern myself off of Fred Mowbray (now there's a name from the past) who was one of the main DCA writers BITD- he was always around at the shows, very accessible, and many of us at Westshore always appreciated his support and would talk to him. It was good to hear a different and kind voice that was encouraging, one that told us to keep working to be great- that what we were doing was worthwhile. If I can do ten percent of what he did for us BITD in that way for those who are out there now in terms of encouragement- I would be very happy and satisfied. Yeah, some corps have real design and performance problems, but can I appreciate what they do, enjoy it, and want to watch it again without feeling like the Coyote in the trap and wanting to get away? Yeah, I can 97+% of the time. Price may have had something to do with Clifton, yes. In my case, I'm finally starting to make real money in my life and could afford it. I remember BITD going to DCI East Prelims because I could afford the Prelims ticket, see everyone all day, good and bad, and learn and experience it with great seats because it was first come first served and I would get there EARLY. Now- if you transplanted that kid to today, he couldn't afford to go both days, and would end up watching from the goal line on the second row wondering if there was enough cash in his wallet to grab a double cheeseburger from Mickey D's on the way back and afford the gas to get home. Solutions? Jeff hit on one. There needs to be more of a serious and aggressive liaison and outreach to the real feeder groups for DCA: the competitive scholastic scene. Most kids know about DCI, very few are aware of the opportunity DCA can provide them.

I'll trust MBI's number. you had faces on that panel that had seen the other horses in the race

This really makes me angry. Field Pass is no longer a Podcast. They should stop calling it that. A podcast requires an RSS feed. Otherwise it's just a random audio file that exists on the Internet somewhere.

And sister organizations

bloo could do kinetic noise part dos with nils frahm's stuff. both of these are kind of out there, i know. the first one is the more accessible of the two. i could see a bunch of different corps putting together some great brass and percussion books with it, actually:

I always believed Drum Corps Planet had the greatest potential to become DCA's most effective way to communicate with the general public. I still do. Unfortunately, not enough of DCA, as a collective, has taken full advantage. This is a wonderful place of opportunity, but it requires participants. Some who give, and some who receive. One other problem damages this message board and many others. That is, an abundance of posters who use the space for combat. Snarky people grow tiresome. After a time, other participants tend to walk away.

I know what you mean. I've been in the corporate world for almost 20 years and I know corporate PR speak when I see it. I would be willing to bet this press release was put together precisely to make it semi-ambiguous as to which records were set. If I were DCI, I wouldn't want to let on that attendance was higher in other cities in the past, not when I just signed another long term deal with Indy. My real question is this: what is the seating capacity, for a drum corps show, of LOS, the Alamo Dome, the Georgia Dome, and the stadium in Allentown? Those are the 7 biggest crowds all year long, but how close are they to maxing out attendance at those events? Once you fill the stadium, the only other thing to do is raise tickets prices. Forgive me for looking at this like an accountant, but that's what I am. At this year's average ticket price, what would be the revenue cap if DCI sold every possible seat to those 7 events? Since Finals are going to be in Indy for the foreseeable future, they have to be planning a way to sell every possible seat at those 7 events. THAT would be your ultimate attendance goal.

Jeremy hunt out of phantom per facebook

In that case, they don't understand how the judging system works. BD may have had mistakes, but the judge decided that BD was that much better than the next best guard.

Yes!!! A modern version of 1995's "A Drum Corps Fans Dream" would be outstanding!. No one is playing latin or jazz so it would certainly be different & we know it would win the crowd.

??? How in the world?

This year's show was just painful to watch and listen to. It seemed like a poorly designed show that was just put out there to fill the season.

In my time with the Surf, we always said that scores didn't matter but I never understood why we never placed higher. The talent is there: former members audition for and are contracted to much higher placing corps. There are a few things that might influence members not to return, but there has been reasonable retention. As mentioned above, the design isn't there. What I witnessed in the latter two years I marched (13, 14) was some serious frustration from the staff about what they were given to work with. Similarly to how design can lose a championship, it's really holding them back. Unrelated thought: Bob Jacobs has done a wonderful job of removing the "excuses" and has seen little in return. In my time, we went from the junky corps owned busses to brand new chartered coaches, a full new set of horns for 2014, new electronics system for 2012.