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Remember September 12, 2001? We were shocked... we were angry ... we were grieving ... we were raw. But ... We were gentler with each other ... we were tenderhearted toward each other ... we were kinder toward each other ... we were united. May we grow back into that latter space.

I'm pretty sure God is telling them to fold the tents on this organization. The optics on this are just terrible and they apparently can't do anything right. Hopefully the newer new director will be smarter than the last two were. It doesn't seem to be a very high bar to hurdle. Who in their right mind has an employee get injured on the job and then dumps them at the hospital and never follows up with them again? The Cadets better hope there is more to the story because that is about as sorry and callous of a response an employer could have.

More than anything else I remember being pi$$ed and resolved. I shared in the 9-11 thread where I was when it started. On 9-15 my ship served as the armed escort for several oil tankers headed into the Persian Gulf to pick up fuel for the naval force that was assembling. Normally when you go thru the Straights of Hormuz you get harassed by small boats from Iran and Oman. They point guns at us, get in our way, shoot flares, etc and we just ignore them. But on 9-15 we were ready to light somebody up. We took the tankers in at flank speed with our ship at battle stations. We had all of our guns loaded, both helicopters in the air with hellfire and penguin missile, 2 F18s circling overhead and a P3 Orion flying next to us with Harpoon missiles loaded. If someone took a crack at us it was going down. On that transit, the Iranians didn’t even come out of port. They knew it was the wrong time to play games with the American warships. We actually got a bridge -to-bridge call from an Iranian warship (in-port) and all he said was “good job USA”.

During my many years working with the Cadets and other drum corps, I had torn my labrum, torn my ACL, Broke my big and middle toes, broke fingers and had multiple 2nd and 3rd degree burns. I even had a big azz chair fall on my head. I never thought about suing a drum corps and I'm sure they would pay my hospital fees if asked.

Sure, we can stop talking about marching bands and just get fans from off the street. Yes, that was sarcasm.

No, the $75,000 is the threshold of damages in order for you to file a complaint in federal court. So, he's saying his damages are over $75,000. The number of counts of the complaint don't have anything to do with that monetary figure.

Looks like YEA / Cadets are being sued over a workplace accident last summer. https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/16135225/1/antonelli-v-youth-education-in-the-arts/ Note - as actual court documents (with names) have been filed I don't think this falls under the 'undocumented accusation' aegis.

2008 Spartacus. Watch her head hit the ground. No props involved but that looked like it hurt.

They should be, but they aren't. DCI does require that they meet certain OSHA requirements, but there's no formal inspection process when it comes to the quality of the construction, etc. That will probably change by next year.

You're absolutely right. I would not read too much into some of the comments here. I think some folks are getting off base. I don't think anyone here is saying BD didn't win. BD won, fair and square. Bluecoats were really close. Both were super successful shows. Although there is only one winner in each division, most people do not leave a drum corps shows thinking about losers. Typically after Finals, or any show, I think about how successful all the corps were, especially those that made top 12. But many of the corps in the 13 - 30+ range have had amazing summers. DCI is more of a positive activity for youth to perform. We are not putting 2 corps on the field at the same time and having them beat the snot out of each other like in football. There is some subjectivity to the scoring system, so there will always be debate over who won, who should have won, who you liked best. It's all good and fair, but I wouldn't take it to mean anything more than it does -- we all have favorites. From a purely competitive standpoint, I think DCI got it right. From an entertainment perspective, the fans won because there were many great shows this year.

On a related note, I have noticed modern drum corps now involves running around and climbing/hanging on props such as scaffolds, ladders, see-saws, impromptu mini-stages, and various other OSHA nightmares. I assume members now sign wavers and corps have liability insurance?

It's going to be a really long off season!

World domination.

None of you are "right". Money is fungible, so you cannot make absolute proclamations of fact about which corps expenses cause member dues to rise vs. increasing other sources of corps income. You are all entitled to their opinions, though. (So am I. My opinion is that regardless of who pays, additional truckloads of props make the activity more expensive.)

How so? Corps already turn away many who audition, at today's costs. A summer of DCI is a very good deal as opposed to activities like Interlochen summer music camps. Soundsport groups are springing up, and they cost much less than WC competitive corps. That plus the occasional new Open class corps. World Class corps are there for the elite. That is true. But, it is supposed to be the very top of the marching/music food chain, with thousands of bands at varying levels making up what used to be hundreds of smaller class 'B' corps.

There have been fatal, prop related, performer accidents in recent years on Broadway as well as in Cirque de Soleil; I fear the current 'props arms race' in DCI will lead to a performer getting seriously injured (or worse). IDK how much the recent emphasis on safety addresses props, but I think prop safety is something that needs to be closely scrutinized.

before we draw conclusions it might be best to let it play out...

I’ve been contemplating your comment for the last five minutes, and I can’t figure out if you’re serious, or if I missed something? I would like to see some minimalism. Classy and understated, but also complex and interesting.

Wow, this type of thing sure does show who the haters are. In one thread, they pretend to be supportive. Then an allegation like this happens, and those same people show their true colors. It’s pretty funny. Shut this corps down. They suck. Directors are all incompetent. Yada yada yada. We have only heard one side so far.

The only people who should be upset about how the teaching staff are selected are fans of the corps that finished outside of the top 12. Who cares what the color of their skin is or anything else for that matter? If they can teach, that’s good enough for me.

eh - the insurance company will settle this out of court. The document is designed to make it look as bad as possible - that's its purpose. as for non-communication the insurance company would provide a claim number and the reps would handle all communication and follow up - not YEA! as far as not transporting him home - perhaps more to that story? zero idea

That's just my mentality, I assume there are risk on tour. I try to be very careful but I wouldn't put myself in harms way. I wouldn't pick metal objects off the field during a lightning storm or jump into a dumpster of rusty cans but I expect to work very hard and look after my own well-been and if I get hurt I patch up and get back on the wagon.

Ok, I'll drop out from the convo and see you at Finals 2025. Yeah, right.

All I will say is that is a lot more nuanced than the first statement states. I was there when unwarranted criticism was levelled at 2018 finals, and I won't forget it.

Yeah, I got knocked silly , I had to sleep that one off. If it doesn't kill me, I'm pretty much good to go.

The document lays out the basic framework for the legal claim. It will get fleshed out with testimony, evidence, etc as the process moves forward.

I understand why DCI does it (better price with long term contract, centrally located, etc.), but it was more interesting when finals were held in various cities. Indianapolis could not be a more boring place.

It sounds like he didn't even get a coffee the way he likes his coffee.

What are we brainstorming towards? Increasing attendance at finals? Keeping corps around or at least enough to have a finals? Does DCA itself have any goals? I read their "About" on the website and summed up, we provide rules and encourage corps to be entertaining, but stay away from DCI rules. If DCA has no real interest in investing time in effort in growing the product, there isn't much that can be done. Even the low hanging fruit of sending out a mini poster to high school and college bands in the adjacent areas doesn't seem to be of much interest. I think it's just continue to coast until there are only 7-8 corps and keep lobbying for handrails.

As we used to say in the radio biz, where people changed jobs on a regular basis... he had a cup of coffee at YEA.

Amen and how soon we forget our differences make us stronger...

Today, when top corps audition hundreds of 18-21 year olds from all over the globe and pick the best among them, there is no need. Back when no one fielded a full corps, memberships ranged from 12 to 21 in age, corps members had to be local, and few brought prior experience/established talent the day they signed up, there was a much greater temptation to keep a key performer a little longer.

Done

This is sort of my point. When does the spending on smoke and mirrors stop and those dollars released to bring the activity to more individuals. Trust me, I know it’s a broad concept but how far does the current trend go before it blows up in their faces?

World Class corps have large budgets because that is what it costs to run a world class s organization. What you call "keeping up with the Joneses" others see as the cost of creating and maintaining a truly world class organization that provides an amazing summer experience for the members.

That may be just for the design. I would doubt the corps have an OSHA trained inspector to inspect the props each time they are put together. As I posted on another thread,I provide expert testimony in cases involving injuries from defective playground equipment. When something like this happens, it opens up all kinds of issues. Things like: 1.Are there written instructions for the assembly ,dismantling, maintenance and repair of things like props ? This includes safety procedures and equipment. 2.Who is the individual (s) in charge of this ? 3.What are his/her qualifications? 4.Is there a log for each assembly and dismantling,including inspecting for damage and repair ? Some of this may sound like overkill for a drum corps prop. Based on my experience,its not.

First, remember in 1989, getting a Visa to come to the United States was very different. The easiest visa to obtain would have been a visitor’s visa. Without a sponsor you are allowed to travel for anywhere up to six weeks. With a sponsor, usually a relative, it could be up to six months. With a visitor’s visa it is possible the person had legitimate credentials when entering but presented false documents to SCV. A student visa would have required an educational institution verifying a student was enrolled, and if the person was a minor, an adult sponsor was required. If SCV qualifies as an educational institution, a student visa could have been issued but it would be unlikely that legitimate documents were used to enter the country and forged documents to were presented to SCV. The documents would have to match. Work visas had a variety of rules. Work could be paid or unpaid. The easiest way to obtain a work visa is to have employment settled. Work visas in the past had the most loopholes and are the visas most often violated. So, whether the same documents to enter the country were the same documents shown to SCV most likely depends on the visa that was granted and whether SCV was a sponsor. If SCV was a sponsor and false documents were used to enter the country, they would be obligated to report it. If a visitor’s visa was granted, probably not. A work visa would depend on whether SCV sponsored the person. If they entered the country legally, charges were probably not filed. If they entered with false documents, unless SCV contacted authorities, they probably crossed the pond as quickly as possible. My guess is that’s what happened. If they were arrested, faced trial, and deported, or if they left and were extradited back to the US to face charges, if there were charges, it would have been a much bigger story.

Thank you for explaining that!

No offense Keith but we need to get their members more involved (or at least aware) or DCA and the corps. Scary part #1 is sitting in the good seats at DCA and watching people around me get older and older thru the years. Scary part #2 is realizing I haven’t gone to DCA in about 6 years and thinking what if looks like now.

They’ve received ours but haven’t processed.

Great optics.

Per the complaint: the Cadets' transportation director was injured after he fell from a ladder while climbing down from the top of a vehicle which he had been instructed to paint. This was at Ohio Northern; the date was June 14. Another Cadets' staff member drove him to the hospital in Lima. He had surgery the next day to set his broken bones and put steel rods and plates in his legs. He still undergoes physical therapy. He says that once they left him at the hospital, he never heard from Cadets again: they abandoned him in Lima to find his own way home (in Colorado). He's suing on six counts of $75,000 each plus attorneys' fees, court costs, etc. (Lawyers: is that right? Each of the counts is separate, so the total is $450,000?) How much will YEA settle for?

Understood just don’t have time (or care to enough) at this point to put all the pieces together. Will just wait for this to unfold. lol reminds me of specs for software for a computer app. Bunch of pieces and first step is to put them in a logical order

Of course I'm right.....

I know...but every time this kind of thread starts, someone starts claiming that Gail WAS cheating and just got caught....I thought I'd head that one off at the pass.

I don't know any details but BITD when corps would repeat significant portions of their show from one year to the next, if you had someone drop out just before or during tour, it could have been tempting to let that marcher who aged out last year, and who already knows half the show, to march at least for a little while. I was such a replacement (but not overage) one year when I had planned not to march, went to an early season show as a spectator, and was asked by corps staff if I was interested in filling a hole which had just opened. But there is almost zero motivation to march overage members now, there's so much great young talent and so much attention paid to everyone and everything.

Mom and dad met at a Westshore rehearsal. 2 years later, me

Did they ask any seat poacher questions on the survey? Because I have a good story. And I can’t remember if I told it or not because I’m old. We have it down to a science how we see every corps over three days. We rarely deviate from the schedule. We came back to our seats after a little break on Thursday and of course, someone is sitting there. Jim says you’re in our seats. He responds that he “just wants to watch this corps before he moves”. Jim says I don’t care where you watch this corps but you’re not watching them in these seats. I was lmao. “I just want to watch this one corps”. I had to go to the bathroom later to see if I had stupid tattooed on my forehead.

None whatsoever, in my opinion. So many talented, dedicated 20-21 year-olds... why would a DCI corps ever need an overage member these days?

Definitely remove Bloo '19 and add Felliniesque